Gaep Crimpers

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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby lostknife4 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:55 am

I like and use Gaep tools, not for everything but almost. I believe that statistically I get more consistent crimping and at a predetermined length set by the stop on my drill press. My mind is made up and I will continue using these tools.
Lost
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby 10Tenner » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:26 pm

Yea... I have patterned many hundreds of 12ga and 10ga loads to come up with top performers that also require no additional bullshit such as buffer or another step in the reloading process. The loads I reload will do the same numbers as the finest loads I have seen here without these steps.


Are we talking about lead , Steel, Hevi Shot, Bismith shot.

I have found that the different brands, or types of buffers differ in pattern quality. 10Tenner
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby culot » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:37 pm

slowshooter wrote:I'm not understanding the difference between the sizes of the gaep crimper.

Is the 12 ga #1 significantly different that the #2 and what would cause someone to buy one over the other.

Sort of scratching my head about it. I might migrate there but not sure that it would make a significant difference other than getting less variation between shells. Which isn't a bad thing.

If you guys have some inside dope on these things let me know.

Thanks,
Slow


Hi , im a hunter and waterfowler from Sweden

This is my first post , about the gaep crimper T 1 is for ligtht charge , T2 is for medium , T 3 for magnum loads ,
But italian use T2 for everything , there is a special crimper named T2special a little more rounded edges an more deep.
I have an Bn2 also but the T2 special outperform it , i run it in my italian gaep 1500 press and alway using new hulls, mostly
Fiocchi and Cheddite . You can also order the gaep criper directly from gaep using paypal, but be prepaired of manager Charles
Crappy english. Www.omv.it will also make excellent crimpers, and Mr.Stefano wright and talk good english Sp2 is the one to go.

This crimper is also good if you reload Lyman 525 sabot, but be sure use non-scived hulls.

Regards
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby UmatillaJeff » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:23 pm

10Tenner wrote:
Yea... I have patterned many hundreds of 12ga and 10ga loads to come up with top performers that also require no additional bullshit such as buffer or another step in the reloading process. The loads I reload will do the same numbers as the finest loads I have seen here without these steps.


Are we talking about lead , Steel, Hevi Shot, Bismith shot.

I have found that the different brands, or types of buffers differ in pattern quality. 10Tenner


10Tenner, I am talking about buffer as it pertains to steel shot shell loads only. I make use of buffer in many 12ga hunting loads for birds we can hunt with lead as well as lead 10ga loads for turkeys. I love buffer just not in steel shot loads as I can get patterns that pattern with as high of a percentage as you are going to get without buffer.

Buffer is for helping pellets not get deformed on set back and maybe as they pass through the choke. Steel being steel we really don't have much of an issue with deformation.

Lots of steel loads will shoot near perfect patterns without buffer so even if a load is better with buffer it can be matched or beat with another load without buffer.

This isn't no child left behind!!

Steel loads tend to be poor, good or above average with bigger swings with just a small substitution of components then lead used to be.Guys will tend to Focus on chokes when there is a good chance it's just the load itself.

Some loads are just not good.

Just because they put them in a reloading manual doesn't mean they are good.

It means they are safe!

Jeff
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby 10Tenner » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:52 pm

10Tenner, I am talking about buffer as it pertains to steel shot shell loads only. I make use of buffer in many 12ga hunting loads for birds we can hunt with lead as well as lead 10ga loads for turkeys. I love buffer just not in steel shot loads as I can get patterns that pattern with as high of a percentage as you are going to get without buffer.

Buffer is for helping pellets not get deformed on set back and maybe as they pass through the choke. Steel being steel we really don't have much of an issue with deformation.

Lots of steel loads will shoot near perfect patterns without buffer so even if a load is better with buffer it can be matched or beat with another load without buffer.

This isn't no child left behind!!

Steel loads tend to be poor, good or above average with bigger swings with just a small substitution of components then lead used to be.Guys will tend to Focus on chokes when there is a good chance it's just the load itself.

Some loads are just not good.

Just because they put them in a reloading manual doesn't mean they are good.

It means they are safe!

Jeff


Glad you cleared that up. I was bound to put the :hammer: if it pertained to lead, Bismuth. :beer: 10Tenner
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby kenner » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:50 pm

I had a GAEP BN4, 12ga. My drill speed is too high and I don't reload enough to require the exacting tolerances it offers.

SOLD!!
Last edited by kenner on Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby slowshooter » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:19 am

UmatillaJeff wrote:Yea... I have patterned many hundreds of 12ga and 10ga loads to come up with top performers that also require no additional bullshit such as buffer or another step in the reloading process. The loads I reload will do the same numbers as the finest loads I have seen here without these steps.


I've only had one steel load benefit from using buffer. But I ALWAYS use it with the old hevishot. If I was using an unfinished pellet like black cloud it would go in because that stuff just looks like it's made to bridge.

So.... Yes... If the tool won't make those loads perform at a higher level I will not bother with it's use at that will defy logic!


That's how most of us roll. Reloaders tend to be remarkably practical when it comes to getting results. If it works, do it again. If it works better, do it more!

Hear me... I do not need a pretty crimp for my mental status.


Good for you!

My 10ga cases only go twice or maybe three times before they are no longer reloadable and the velocity from first reload to third reload is close enough that my misses are not related to inconsistent velocity.


Seems like good practice to me.

I can't make you guys believe that shell to shell inconsistency isn't affecting weather or not you are missing a bird and that is fine.


Well sure it's tough to convince folks... While your belief is firm other folks believe in Murphy's Law and the Black Swan.

If you want to think that you are missing birds because your shells vary by even as much as 100 fps that just isn't the case.


Can't cherry pick an attribute and say that's what everyone is basing their argument upon. Most folks really could give a crap about speed. Patterns are where it's at. On the other hand. Speed does count to me - and honestly I'm probably one of few... And that's because I'm stupid enough to shoot skeet and clays with 1 ounce (sometime 7/8ths) and I use a Terror .655. So I can easily tell when I switch between speeds on shells. That 100 fps or more can really **** with ya when your pattern is literally the size of a fist.

Look... you guys are always talking about how you all kill your birds so close and that you never shoot over 40 yards.


And so most guys do. But those birds seem to have minds of their own. Especially geese. I'm sure not using hevishot to shoot in my face teal. I've shot plenty of ducks and geese at longer distances. I certainly don't like to do that, but sometimes those days define themselves and there's not much to do be very careful about not stretching your skill set and shell farther than is ethical.

If that is true then since we are going to make assumptions that we can not prove with this tool then lets make some assumptions about the ducks you guys shoot.


Actually you can't prove it. I trust the guys that say they get better patterns - and I trust them when they say they get better consistency. The truth is that while it works for them, I don't know if it would work for me any more than you know that it would work for you. But presuming that they are lying, incapable of measuring or simply can't achieve what they say they have just isn't my thing. Assumptions are a logic killer.

If you never shoot over 40 it implies that the majority are shot far closer.. In fact you just made a post attesting to that vary thing.


I do prefer to shoot tighter than longer. Mainly because I prefer a butcher shot to a passing shot. But that has nothing to do with what other results folks are getting with a GAEP.

So if a shell to shell inconsistency is mere inches at 40 yards... How much does it affect a shot at 10 yards? 20 yards?


Like I said mere inches mean something when shooting tight. If I miss at 30 yards with an IC I'm not off by a little. But a lot. Anyone can do the math and see how far an average clay can travel while a specific speed load goes by. It's usually not much unless you are shooting big boy targets and those are still being thrown at certain clubs and big tournaments that are genuine tests of skill.

The truth is that it amounts to nothing. Nothing that would or wouldn't affect killing a bird.
Look at a chart that shows the difference in ammo that goes 1550 FPS and ammo at 1350 fps with the smaller steel at 40 yards.
look at the difference in actual speed by the time they get to 40 yards and the difference in forward allowance.


I don't disagree at all. We're saying the same thing on how shot passes a target and how fast.

It's so little that you can't make use of the extra speed where you need it most which is at longer range rather a ten or a 15 yard decoy shot.

So now we are going to ignore the fact that there are plenty of fine performing steel reloads with small amounts of standard deviation say less then 50 FPS with standard fold crimps and say that we can't shoot properly and accurately unless we get the deviation on a shot shell load down to less then that?

That is just deluding yourself of the truth.


I don't remember anyone saying that at all. In fact the only person that is arguing that it's not worth it (you) has had to create an argument based solely on travel and distance - and the resulting delta from different speeds. I think when folks use the term consistency they mean more than speed.

If were are going to try and eliminate as many variables as possible in order to shoot as well as we can that is fine but lets not completely crap ourselves into delusional thought processes!


So the folks that have stated they have achieved better patterns are delusional? That's not a fair statement particularly if you haven't actually used the tool yet. Secondly some folks may simply have higher standards than you when it comes to patterns. If some have eliminated all the variables they can, well that's great for them. To my recollection, no one has said ignore other shells either. Really, the idea that "good enough is good enough" is fine. But for those whose hobby it is to chase perfection? More power to them. It's those guys over the decades that have provided incremental improvements to reloading that are still in use today.

If you think that shells that vary by fewer then 50 FPS are going to put one extra bird in your bag it just isn't so.


You created this argument so you can define it any way you choose.

Now put two extra steel TT's in a 30 inch circle at 60 yards? That would be a near 5% pattern increase with a pellet big enough to make a difference. If it can do that we will have something.


Well, it might be good for you to give it a try before you say it's not worth doing, or insinuating that folks aren't achieving the results they say that they have.

If you can make a better load happen that would be awesome! I support your efforts to push the boundaries and hopefully if the change is wide spread after folks work up some loads maybe we'll all be using a GAEP in 10 years.
All this for a bowl of borscht.
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby culot » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:07 am

kenner wrote:I have a GAEP BN4, 12ga to sell.... No,, I don't know the price yet.... Used it on 10 shells. PM me.
p.s.... It's a great tool.. My drill speed is too high and I don't reload enough to require the exacting tolerances it offers.


Hi Kenner,

The trick with this crimper is ,you have to do a quick short stroke , and lube is a must , if you hang on the handle you ruin the hull.

900rpm is prefect , but you can use up to 1200 if you are careful..

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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby UmatillaJeff » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:59 am

slowshooter wrote:
UmatillaJeff wrote:Yea... I have patterned many hundreds of 12ga and 10ga loads to come up with top performers that also require no additional bullshit such as buffer or another step in the reloading process. The loads I reload will do the same numbers as the finest loads I have seen here without these steps.


I've only had one steel load benefit from using buffer. But I ALWAYS use it with the old hevishot. If I was using an unfinished pellet like black cloud it would go in because that stuff just looks like it's made to bridge.

So.... Yes... If the tool won't make those loads perform at a higher level I will not bother with it's use at that will defy logic!


That's how most of us roll. Reloaders tend to be remarkably practical when it comes to getting results. If it works, do it again. If it works better, do it more!

Hear me... I do not need a pretty crimp for my mental status.


Good for you!

My 10ga cases only go twice or maybe three times before they are no longer reloadable and the velocity from first reload to third reload is close enough that my misses are not related to inconsistent velocity.


Seems like good practice to me.

I can't make you guys believe that shell to shell inconsistency isn't affecting weather or not you are missing a bird and that is fine.


Well sure it's tough to convince folks... While your belief is firm other folks believe in Murphy's Law and the Black Swan.

If you want to think that you are missing birds because your shells vary by even as much as 100 fps that just isn't the case.


Can't cherry pick an attribute and say that's what everyone is basing their argument upon. Most folks really could give a crap about speed. Patterns are where it's at. On the other hand. Speed does count to me - and honestly I'm probably one of few... And that's because I'm stupid enough to shoot skeet and clays with 1 ounce (sometime 7/8ths) and I use a Terror .655. So I can easily tell when I switch between speeds on shells. That 100 fps or more can really **** with ya when your pattern is literally the size of a fist.

Look... you guys are always talking about how you all kill your birds so close and that you never shoot over 40 yards.


And so most guys do. But those birds seem to have minds of their own. Especially geese. I'm sure not using hevishot to shoot in my face teal. I've shot plenty of ducks and geese at longer distances. I certainly don't like to do that, but sometimes those days define themselves and there's not much to do be very careful about not stretching your skill set and shell farther than is ethical.

If that is true then since we are going to make assumptions that we can not prove with this tool then lets make some assumptions about the ducks you guys shoot.


Actually you can't prove it. I trust the guys that say they get better patterns - and I trust them when they say they get better consistency. The truth is that while it works for them, I don't know if it would work for me any more than you know that it would work for you. But presuming that they are lying, incapable of measuring or simply can't achieve what they say they have just isn't my thing. Assumptions are a logic killer.

If you never shoot over 40 it implies that the majority are shot far closer.. In fact you just made a post attesting to that vary thing.


I do prefer to shoot tighter than longer. Mainly because I prefer a butcher shot to a passing shot. But that has nothing to do with what other results folks are getting with a GAEP.

So if a shell to shell inconsistency is mere inches at 40 yards... How much does it affect a shot at 10 yards? 20 yards?


Like I said mere inches mean something when shooting tight. If I miss at 30 yards with an IC I'm not off by a little. But a lot. Anyone can do the math and see how far an average clay can travel while a specific speed load goes by. It's usually not much unless you are shooting big boy targets and those are still being thrown at certain clubs and big tournaments that are genuine tests of skill.

The truth is that it amounts to nothing. Nothing that would or wouldn't affect killing a bird.
Look at a chart that shows the difference in ammo that goes 1550 FPS and ammo at 1350 fps with the smaller steel at 40 yards.
look at the difference in actual speed by the time they get to 40 yards and the difference in forward allowance.


I don't disagree at all. We're saying the same thing on how shot passes a target and how fast.

It's so little that you can't make use of the extra speed where you need it most which is at longer range rather a ten or a 15 yard decoy shot.

So now we are going to ignore the fact that there are plenty of fine performing steel reloads with small amounts of standard deviation say less then 50 FPS with standard fold crimps and say that we can't shoot properly and accurately unless we get the deviation on a shot shell load down to less then that?

That is just deluding yourself of the truth.


I don't remember anyone saying that at all. In fact the only person that is arguing that it's not worth it (you) has had to create an argument based solely on travel and distance - and the resulting delta from different speeds. I think when folks use the term consistency they mean more than speed.

If were are going to try and eliminate as many variables as possible in order to shoot as well as we can that is fine but lets not completely crap ourselves into delusional thought processes!


So the folks that have stated they have achieved better patterns are delusional? That's not a fair statement particularly if you haven't actually used the tool yet. Secondly some folks may simply have higher standards than you when it comes to patterns. If some have eliminated all the variables they can, well that's great for them. To my recollection, no one has said ignore other shells either. Really, the idea that "good enough is good enough" is fine. But for those whose hobby it is to chase perfection? More power to them. It's those guys over the decades that have provided incremental improvements to reloading that are still in use today.

If you think that shells that vary by fewer then 50 FPS are going to put one extra bird in your bag it just isn't so.


You created this argument so you can define it any way you choose.

Now put two extra steel TT's in a 30 inch circle at 60 yards? That would be a near 5% pattern increase with a pellet big enough to make a difference. If it can do that we will have something.


Well, it might be good for you to give it a try before you say it's not worth doing, or insinuating that folks aren't achieving the results they say that they have.

If you can make a better load happen that would be awesome! I support your efforts to push the boundaries and hopefully if the change is wide spread after folks work up some loads maybe we'll all be using a GAEP in 10 years.




I think perhaps you should read all the posts and show me where people have stated anything but speculation about results. I never called or assumed anybody was lying about anything. That was your statement.

I want proof. Plain and simple.

I suspect that when the weather gets better Lost will let us in on a bunch of truth.

I suspect he will give us the good, the bad and or the ugly. Jeff
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby slowshooter » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am

Cool. You wait for proof. I have their word. Good enough for me.

Look at it this way, if they give you proof you can dismiss as easily as what they said (which you have already done).
Their guns and setups aren't the same as yours, so the reality is that even if you use the same recipe, your results may differ.

As pointed out, they said it. I believe it. Despite the fact that it still may not work for me or you.

With that in mind, their "proof" to a large degree is irrelevant to other shooters beyond the fact that certain loads are techniques are viewed positively. Candidly, reloaders aren't here to "prove" their results to anyone. They share their successes and failures. When enough successes come down on one load or technique, then others sort through and see if it's something - or somethings - they would like to try.

Beyond that, it's supposed to be fun.

Hope that this summer brings you lots of successes at the patterning board, range and field.

Slow
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby grnhd » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:44 am

This thread makes me :lol3:
Carry on.
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:43 pm

Gaep tools stop any wad spinning.
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby slowshooter » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:50 pm

Prove it. :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby 3200 man » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:54 pm

Oh NO Bill just when all that crap finally died , you pulled it's ugly head up again ! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:48 pm

lMAO
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby UmatillaJeff » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:29 am

Come on Bill.... It's wadlock barrels that make the wad stop spinning coupled with patternmaster chokes and a gaep tool.

Forget about it!

Jeff
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Re: Gaep Crimpers

Postby UmatillaJeff » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:41 am

slowshooter wrote:Cool. You wait for proof. I have their word. Good enough for me.

Look at it this way, if they give you proof you can dismiss as easily as what they said (which you have already done).
Their guns and setups aren't the same as yours, so the reality is that even if you use the same recipe, your results may differ.

As pointed out, they said it. I believe it. Despite the fact that it still may not work for me or you.

With that in mind, their "proof" to a large degree is irrelevant to other shooters beyond the fact that certain loads are techniques are viewed positively. Candidly, reloaders aren't here to "prove" their results to anyone. They share their successes and failures. When enough successes come down on one load or technique, then others sort through and see if it's something - or somethings - they would like to try.

Beyond that, it's supposed to be fun.

Hope that this summer brings you lots of successes at the patterning board, range and field.

Slow



Getting more performance is lots of fun.

Getting repeatable results is even more fun. I see your point of view but I do not agree with it. You have to show me. It's not about trusting others it's about changing the way you do business! I am not changing unless it yields results!

Bob ( Lostknife)

When he is done testing if it doesn't do what he has h0ped it would do, He will be the first to tell you that it makes nice crimps but that he couldn't prove via the numbers that it brings anything else to the table.

As for me? My pattern testing will show me rather quickly what I need to know and I will post those results as well.

If it doesn't put more pellets in a 30 inch circle then it does without it, it will be for sale.

and that is how I roll.

You can respect my point of view or not, it won't hurt my feeling either way. Jeff
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