Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

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Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby slowshooter » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:32 pm

Simple question really. I think they look great, but performance-wise if you had to put an average percentage of improvement on patterns, what would it be?

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Slow
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby Theduckguru » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:07 pm

slowshooter wrote:Simple question really. I think they look great, but performance-wise if you had to put an average percentage of improvement on patterns, what would it be?

Thanks,
Slow


Zero improvement.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby slowshooter » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:09 pm

Theduckguru wrote:
slowshooter wrote:Simple question really. I think they look great, but performance-wise if you had to put an average percentage of improvement on patterns, what would it be?

Thanks,
Slow


Zero improvement.


I guess that begs the question. Why do we chase good looking women? :lol3:
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby 3200 man » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:17 pm

Because we hope they have money to support our Waterfowl Hunting Addiction ! :thumbsup: :yes:

you just have to troll the right Bait ............. :huh: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby slowshooter » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:26 pm

3200 man wrote:Because we hope they have money to support our Waterfowl Hunting Addiction ! :thumbsup: :yes:

you just have to troll the right Bait ............. :huh: :lol3: :lol3:


LOL! The only part of my waterfowl addition my wife supports is that it gets me out of her hair on hunt days.

:lol3:
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby TexasGeese » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:02 pm

I have always gotten good patterns with roll crimps, with the exception of a tssxhevi duplex. I usually add 1.5-2 grains of powder beyond what a fold crimp calls for.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby 10gaOkie » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:03 pm

In my 3" 1 1/4oz load tested with both roll crimp and folded crimp..... With roll crimp it went 125/129 with folded crimp and one less grain of powder to allow for pressure increase with fold crimp, it went 93/129. The factory Kent load of the same also went 93/129. Both of my reloads were loaded with 129 total #1 steel pellets. So I beg to differ. So far, I have seen pattern improvement with both roll crimp and gaep finished fold crimps. Please note that with all my roll crimps, I use a BPI clear plastic over shot disc. The use of this disc with rto crimp makes a world of diff. The disc is designed to shatter on ignition thus not disturbing pattern quality. The above testing was all shot at 45 yards.

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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby hawglips » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:55 am

If money was on the line as far as pattern was concerned, I'd roll crimp the shell.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby slowshooter » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:48 am

10gaOkie wrote:In my 3" 1 1/4oz load tested with both roll crimp and folded crimp..... With roll crimp it went 125/129 with folded crimp and one less grain of powder to allow for pressure increase with fold crimp, it went 93/129. The factory Kent load of the same also went 93/129. Both of my reloads were loaded with 129 total #1 steel pellets. So I beg to differ. So far, I have seen pattern improvement with both roll crimp and gaep finished fold crimps. Please note that with all my roll crimps, I use a BPI clear plastic over shot disc. The use of this disc with rto crimp makes a world of diff. The disc is designed to shatter on ignition thus not disturbing pattern quality. The above testing was all shot at 45 yards.

Chris



A ~97% pattern? Apparently I've been doing this wrong for years.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby slowshooter » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:51 am

TexasGeese wrote:I have always gotten good patterns with roll crimps, with the exception of a tssxhevi duplex. I usually add 1.5-2 grains of powder beyond what a fold crimp calls for.


What happened to the Duplex load? Was it just blotchy or to dispersed? I've found the hevi I've reloaded to be so tight it squeaks when I put the shell in the chamber.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby 10gaOkie » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:12 am

The load I spoke of was my first attempt at building a load based on the rto crimp. My initial goal was to duplicate the Kent factory 1 1/4oz load of #1s. The Kent load had proved to be very successful in the duck blind on both ducks and geese. Not to mention how it bucked windy conditions. My reload performance sort of blows the factory results away. I got these pattern results shooting my HkSBE with .685 Terror choke.

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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby TexasGeese » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:29 pm

slowshooter wrote:
TexasGeese wrote:I have always gotten good patterns with roll crimps, with the exception of a tssxhevi duplex. I usually add 1.5-2 grains of powder beyond what a fold crimp calls for.


What happened to the Duplex load? Was it just blotchy or to dispersed? I've found the hevi I've reloaded to be so tight it squeaks when I put the shell in the chamber.



It was blotchy. The stand alone TSS and Hevi loads patterned uniform.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby Jon Bergren » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:01 pm

Patterns are controlled by the vibration of the barrel. You cut the vibration down and you get excellent patterns. I Can get 100% patterns at 40 yds with my 1100, Hasting Barrel and Hastings full choke. No holes in this pattern. Ned S
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:14 pm

My wad lock 12 ga bps barrel is almost as robust as my bps 10 ga Browning barrel certainly a LOT thicker than the barrel it came with. I always felt that this weight barrel contributed to better harmonics and showed up in better patterns
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby 10gaOkie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:52 pm

Bill
I always felt that the Hastings barrel was beefier than any stock barrel, including Browning 10ga. One of the reasons I think the Terror chokes work so well is they are so beefy. Speaking of chokes, I intend to try out one of the Wilson chokes. They look to have that beefy appearance to them and they can be ordered "non-ported".

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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:23 am

Theduckguru wrote:
slowshooter wrote:Simple question really. I think they look great, but performance-wise if you had to put an average percentage of improvement on patterns, what would it be?

Thanks,
Slow


Zero improvement.


I , and others I'm sure, would be interested in seeing the results of your testing and the equipment, ammo, choke, gun etc that were used in this testing that lead you to adamantly make such a statement.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby slowshooter » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:11 am

I hear so many good things about hasting barrels it piques my curiosity. Did I imagine a hot moment when they made a Nova barrel?
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby lostknife4 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:44 am

Jon Bergren wrote:Patterns are controlled by the vibration of the barrel. You cut the vibration down and you get excellent patterns. I Can get 100% patterns at 40 yds with my 1100, Hasting Barrel and Hastings full choke. No holes in this pattern. Ned S


Another way would be to use a very specific load and velocity and all the rest that matches the barrel frequency or keep chopping the barrel a quarter inch at a time to try to find the harmonic balance point either of these two methods would be very time consuming and expensive LOL, a lot easier to just buy a Hastings Wadlock, that is if you can get one for your shotgun make and model.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby mudpack » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:10 am

Jon Bergren wrote:Patterns are controlled by the vibration of the barrel. You cut the vibration down and you get excellent patterns. I Can get 100% patterns at 40 yds with my 1100, Hasting Barrel and Hastings full choke. No holes in this pattern. Ned S

Patterns are controlled by juxtapostion of Mar's third moon and the planet Krypton. Everybody knows that.
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby lostknife4 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:52 am

mudpack wrote:
Jon Bergren wrote:Patterns are controlled by the vibration of the barrel. You cut the vibration down and you get excellent patterns. I Can get 100% patterns at 40 yds with my 1100, Hasting Barrel and Hastings full choke. No holes in this pattern. Ned S

Patterns are controlled by juxtapostion of Mar's third moon and the planet Krypton. Everybody knows that.


Of course and it's also written in the Sumarian Tablets!!
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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby slowshooter » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:07 pm

10gaOkie wrote:The load I spoke of was my first attempt at building a load based on the rto crimp. My initial goal was to duplicate the Kent factory 1 1/4oz load of #1s. The Kent load had proved to be very successful in the duck blind on both ducks and geese. Not to mention how it bucked windy conditions. My reload performance sort of blows the factory results away. I got these pattern results shooting my HkSBE with .685 Terror choke.

Chris



Did you use GAEPs RTO? Curious if the BPI or Precision RTO would be just as easy to use.

The shell will be running through some terror chokes.

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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:29 pm

I use the gaep finishing head for both 12 and 10ga with folded crimps. I use the PR rto heads for roll crimps both 12 and 10.
I first tried the BPI 12ga head for roll crimps and quickly changed to the PR head which worked much better. I have never tried the gaep rto heads nor have a felt a need to. The only over shot card I use are the BPI 12ga plastic discs. I use the 12ga size for 10ga too.

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Re: Overshot card and roll crimp = better patterns?

Postby slowshooter » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:39 am

Thanks Chris! Appreciate the replies.
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