Hevisteel coming back

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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:07 am

rebelcj7 wrote:
Yuchi1 wrote:
rebelcj7 wrote:Yes you will see Hevi Steel this year. NO, it is NOT the same as the old Hevi Steel. This is a straight steel load coming in at about $10 bucks cheaper then Hevi Metal.

:beer:


But higher ($$'s) than comparable steel loads already available.

WHY...did EMI label it Hevi Steel when (per your comment above) it is straight steel ?

WHAT...is Hevi about it?


Sure it will be higher then some, but also cheaper then others. Noone is claiming it to be the "cheapest" steel shot load out there, just that it is cheaper then Hevi Metal.

I'll compare apples and oranges for a second... BUT, it's no difference when a "hot sauce" company like for example, Mikes Hot Sauce... comes in a "super mild". It's not hot, but made my Mikes Hot Sauce.

Hevi makes em, so labeled Hevi Steel. I thought EMI (manufacturer) is making the stuff and if so, HEVI is just a label stuck on it and IMO, rather misleading considering the original products' properties vs. this new product. :fingerpt:

Can't say anything as to how it shoots as I have not had my hands on any. I'm sure I'll try some out when its available. :beer:
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby goosepit2007 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:33 am

Yuchi1 wrote:
rebelcj7 wrote:
Yuchi1 wrote:
rebelcj7 wrote:Yes you will see Hevi Steel this year. NO, it is NOT the same as the old Hevi Steel. This is a straight steel load coming in at about $10 bucks cheaper then Hevi Metal.

:beer:


But higher ($$'s) than comparable steel loads already available.

WHY...did EMI label it Hevi Steel when (per your comment above) it is straight steel ?

WHAT...is Hevi about it?


Sure it will be higher then some, but also cheaper then others. Noone is claiming it to be the "cheapest" steel shot load out there, just that it is cheaper then Hevi Metal.

I'll compare apples and oranges for a second... BUT, it's no difference when a "hot sauce" company like for example, Mikes Hot Sauce... comes in a "super mild". It's not hot, but made my Mikes Hot Sauce.

Hevi makes em, so labeled Hevi Steel. I thought EMI (manufacturer) is making the stuff and if so, HEVI is just a label stuck on it and IMO, rather misleading considering the original products' properties vs. this new product. :fingerpt:

Can't say anything as to how it shoots as I have not had my hands on any. I'm sure I'll try some out when its available. :beer:



They are using the old products name to be misleading just like they did in the past, no big suprise there at all. they can get some sells from people that do not get on forums...they should be putting anther name on the box. but putting the hevi steel on box goes along with the people that are running the emi company and making the decisions. does not say much for them,same old tricks to keep money in there pockets...they cried on net ect when they thaught rsi copied there shot(hevi-shot) when in fact the heavy-weight is not even the same metals in the formula. but it is ok to put hevisteel on box even though it is same steel pellets as all the other factory steel loads. same steel pellets that rsi,balistic products, and precision reloading sells to reloading world. there is nothing hevi about the load at all. I agree with frank in that parent company is EMI and the company is not hevi!!!!! that is the products that are made by MOTHER COMPANY(EMI).


I plan on shooting and posting patterns of these loads when they come out and getting true fps over 5 shot string and posting results. Only testing will tell if they pattern over a broad spectrum of shotguns and if the speeds are even close to what the box says. with the history of EMI in question, not sure which way it will turn out!!!


Rebel,

Is that 10 dollars cheaper then the suggested retail price of hevi-metal per box?

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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby Jmorris » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:54 am

Here is my story with EMI. About 8 years ago I bought several cases of the dead coyote 3.5" shells on the cheap, less than $20 per box. Come to find out, a bunch of the crimps were dicked up and had buffer running out the end of them. So I call customer service and they agree to send new cases of shells via UPS but wanted a credit card on file just in case. Cool I thought. The requirement was that I had to go to UPS to pick them up and have shipping labels done on what I was returning, I had to trade shipments. Not a big deal and was no hassle. 3 days later I got a nasty phone call from them accusing me of sending empty boxes back to them and they were charging me for what they sent. Well I had the copies of shipment weights and everything. You all are smart enough to figure out how that phone call went. They ended up charging my card and I had to fight the battle with my credit card company to get the charges reversed. I have not given them a single penny since.

My wife bought me a case of HeviMetal BB's for Christmas a couple of years ago not knowing any different and they are down in the basement. I did shoot a few of those overpriced POS' s and was not impressed. Patterns were not impressive.

I'll continue to reload awesome steel shells and not worry about all these magic shells.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby goosepit2007 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:21 am

Jmorris wrote:Here is my story with EMI. About 8 years ago I bought several cases of the dead coyote 3.5" shells on the cheap, less than $20 per box. Come to find out, a bunch of the crimps were dicked up and had buffer running out the end of them. So I call customer service and they agree to send new cases of shells via UPS but wanted a credit card on file just in case. Cool I thought. The requirement was that I had to go to UPS to pick them up and have shipping labels done on what I was returning, I had to trade shipments. Not a big deal and was no hassle. 3 days later I got a nasty phone call from them accusing me of sending empty boxes back to them and they were charging me for what they sent. Well I had the copies of shipment weights and everything. You all are smart enough to figure out how that phone call went. They ended up charging my card and I had to fight the battle with my credit card company to get the charges reversed. I have not given them a single penny since.

My wife bought me a case of HeviMetal BB's for Christmas a couple of years ago not knowing any different and they are down in the basement. I did shoot a few of those overpriced POS' s and was not impressed. Patterns were not impressive.

I'll continue to reload awesome steel shells and not worry about all these magic shells.


With all the factories dropping this and that load and going with the gimmick loads, were they charge more per box, and is no better then there regular steel loads. it is getting time to reload your own steel shotshells!!! after you get load that works for you and your gun/choke combo, you will not have to contend with accepting a new load that replaced a cheaper load that worked type deal. as long as after you get the recipe that works for you and then buy components in bulk..you will be set. I have enough supplies even at average of 10 cases a year, for atleast 15 years right know. for all the loads that i like shooting at this time...
The biggest part is that i consider them premium loads(with the shot and powder weighed, the shells are as close as tey can get with no accepted variance that the factory loads consider acceptable)!!!! Along with the savings it is plus, in my book.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby TexasGeese » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:49 pm

Imagine if the ammo industry put as much effort into R&D to improve already good loads, instead of wasting it on marketing and gimmicks. Most of which will likely be phased out of production within a few years anyways.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby Jim Atlas » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:30 pm

I don't have a lot to say about EMI, except I think their products are WAY overpriced, and the ched hulls they use for hevi metal are only good for a single reload before the crimps split (whereas the cheds Kent uses hold up longer).

But, oddly enough... I'm going to go with the pro staffer on this one. The company may be EMI, but they're best known by their brand name Hevi-Shot. I think the hot sauce analogy is a fair one.

I find the outrage that a lot of you are showing over them reusing the name "hevisteel" kind of silly. Companies are doing this ALL the time. How much crap are you heaping on Winchester for slapping "Double X" on the Xpert steel loads? What about Browning re-using "A5"? What about when Ritchi Blackmore formed a band in 1994 and called it Rainbow--even though he didn't hire any of the 17 other former members of the orgional band? This is not a moral issue. It's a marketing one. EMI is trying to make money--just like EVERYONE else. Do you think Rem/Fed/Win would make a single shotshell if they could turn a profit at it?

I'm sure they'll be decent steel shells worth $12-15 a box. And I'm also sure they won't be at that price point.
But it doesn't matter--I can load 'em cheaper/better anyhow...
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:44 pm

Jim Atlas wrote:I don't have a lot to say about EMI, except I think their products are WAY overpriced, and the ched hulls they use for hevi metal are only good for a single reload before the crimps split (whereas the cheds Kent uses hold up longer).

But, oddly enough... I'm going to go with the pro staffer on this one. The company may be EMI, but they're best known by their brand name Hevi-Shot. I think the hot sauce analogy is a fair one. With "hot sauce" you have a reasonable expectation that you are getting "hot sauce". With the "new" Hevi Steel, you aren't getting Hevi Steel. I have asked (2X) what the HEVI in the new Hevi Steel means...the silence is deafening. Couple that with EMI's track record of adulterating product w/o disclosure (kept using the original packaging (heavier than lead) in the process) and it tends (IMO) to pretty much place their credibility in the rubbish bin.

I find the outrage that a lot of you are showing over them reusing the name "hevisteel" kind of silly. Companies are doing this ALL the time. How much crap are you heaping on Winchester for slapping "Double X" on the Xpert steel loads? What about Browning re-using "A5"? What about when Ritchi Blackmore formed a band in 1994 and called it Rainbow--even though he didn't hire any of the 17 other former members of the orgional band? This is not a moral issue. It's a marketing one. EMI is trying to make money--just like EVERYONE else. Do you think Rem/Fed/Win would make a single shotshell if they could turn a profit at it?

I'm sure they'll be decent steel shells worth $12-15 a box. And I'm also sure they won't be at that price point.
But it doesn't matter--I can load 'em cheaper/better anyhow...
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby TexasGeese » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:48 pm

Jim Atlas wrote:
But, oddly enough... I'm going to go with the pro staffer on this one. The company may be EMI, but they're best known by their brand name Hevi-Shot. I think the hot sauce analogy is a fair one.
..


The hot sauce analogy is far from being correct. A more accurate statement would be a company selling regular hot sauce, labeling it as such, then switching the sauce to mild but keeping the regular label.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby goosepit2007 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:09 pm

TexasGeese wrote:
Jim Atlas wrote:
But, oddly enough... I'm going to go with the pro staffer on this one. The company may be EMI, but they're best known by their brand name Hevi-Shot. I think the hot sauce analogy is a fair one.
..


The hot sauce analogy is far from being correct. A more accurate statement would be a company selling regular hot sauce, labeling it as such, then switching the sauce to mild but keeping the regular label.



10.? gr/cc to 7.8 gr/cc steel pellets and steel keeping the same name: HEVISTEEL
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby mudpack » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:02 pm

On the X wrote:Bravo, freakin bravo dz, I too read for years. Some of the guys are real pieces of work for sure. I guess everyone needs a place to reign, even if it's an internet site.


I've noticed, X, that your posts lately seem to mainly be complaints about, or attacks on, some other poster. If that's why you decided to become a member, I suggest you go back to only reading. You were more helpful as a guest.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby On the X » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:50 pm

mudpack wrote:
On the X wrote:Bravo, freakin bravo dz, I too read for years. Some of the guys are real pieces of work for sure. I guess everyone needs a place to reign, even if it's an internet site.


I've noticed, X, that your posts lately seem to mainly be complaints about, or attacks on, some other poster. If that's why you decided to become a member, I suggest you go back to only reading. You were more helpful as a guest.

And I've noticed that you are a snarky old man who seems to get along with no one who may disagree with you, as are the very few others who have deserved to addressed. Example in point, Frank Lopez' post on this thread. I can get along with anyone, but have no interest in getting along or "biding my tongue" with said few. I remember your unnecessary commits about my sons Escort. Seems like you accused me of all that you're guilty of now doesn't ?
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby Frank Lopez » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:41 pm

On the X wrote:
mudpack wrote:
On the X wrote:Bravo, freakin bravo dz, I too read for years. Some of the guys are real pieces of work for sure. I guess everyone needs a place to reign, even if it's an internet site.


I've noticed, X, that your posts lately seem to mainly be complaints about, or attacks on, some other poster. If that's why you decided to become a member, I suggest you go back to only reading. You were more helpful as a guest.

And I've noticed that you are a snarky old man who seems to get along with no one who may disagree with you, as are the very few others who have deserved to addressed. Example in point, Frank Lopez' post on this thread. I can get along with anyone, but have no interest in getting along or "biding my tongue" with said few. I remember your unnecessary commits about my sons Escort. Seems like you accused me of all that you're guilty of now doesn't ?


It isn't too difficult to see what we're dealing with here, and I should probably know better than to even bother to answer, but here goes.

First off, you've been here a month, though you admit to lurking a bit longer. So, as a bit of curiosity, I did a search of your posts. It seems that you never miss an opportunity to criticize anyone who doesn't match your opinion exactly. Yet, you have the audacity to accuse others of the very same fault. Your opinions, by the way, have never been supported by any definite facts. So, while you are entitled to your opinions, they are just that, opinions. You refer to my post in this thread. If you bother to read it, dzgolf2 was panting like a bull buffalo at the first green up of spring at the news that EMI was about to produce #1 standard round steel at 1500fps as if it were some sort of waterfowl death ray because it said Hevi something on the box.

Carry on, troll.

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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby On the X » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:34 pm

dzgolf2 wrote:I know it's not the old, denser Hevisteel, but 1 1/4 oz loads at 1500 fps (if honest velocity) in #1 intrigue .me What are we looking at for prices and availability? Are most standard Hevi-Shot dealers are expected to carry them?

I see your point now Frank, being intrigued is the exact same as, how did you put it?....."panting like a buffalo at the first green up of spring" How dare this guy to be intrigued right? But you put the buffalo in it's rightful place didn't you Frank......heres how you did it . Good God people, can we stop grabbing at straws?"
So Frank, it's you who needs to go back and re-read what dzgolf posted not me. By the way, it;s you who criticizes anyone who not only disagrees with you, but also anyone who makes a statement you don't believe......not me.
Oh, and as far as me needing to back up my facts or that theres nothing to back them up with.....nowhere have I said anything that I felt or feel that needs to be proven to you or anyone else here about an ammo I shoot. I have accused you and another one or two here of being an *** cause you are, and I don't have to back that up with anything but quoting you as I did above. That is solid data right there.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby mudpack » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:38 am

On the X wrote:And I've noticed that you are a snarky old man who seems to get along with no one who may disagree with you, as are the very few others who have deserved to addressed. Example in point, Frank Lopez' post on this thread. I can get along with anyone, but have no interest in getting along or "biding my tongue" with said few. I remember your unnecessary commits about my sons Escort. Seems like you accused me of all that you're guilty of now doesn't ?


Well, that clears that up. I figured that I'd said something somewhere that put you in a bad light, now I know what it was. :thumbsup:

While I may very well be a snarky old man :yes: , what I asked about your son's gun was "how many rounds has he put through it?" Remember that? I did notice that your answer to that question was "enough". That told us a great deal, right there.
If answering that question factually would have made you look foolish, then I can see why you'd have a dislike for me; being put on the spot sometimes does that. My advice: don't carry grudges; it can poison your life. Let it go. Factual discussions are good. Hate campaigns are not good.

BTW, calling people names in your posts is considered very bad form around here.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby MarkM » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:24 am

Frank Lopez wrote:So, as a bit of curiosity, I did a search of your posts. It seems that you never miss an opportunity to criticize anyone who doesn't match your opinion exactly. Yet, you have the audacity to accuse others of the very same fault. Your opinions, by the way, have never been supported by any definite facts.


Doesn't take long to read through all those posts to confirm that.


Do I reload shells? No, I haven't in years.

Do I pattern my guns? Yes, when I am shooting at birds in flight/decoying. Paper isn't very tasty to me.

Do I shoot HeviJunk? Hell no. I can kill a bird at 40 yards with steel, why would I waste money on what I believe to be a gimmick load?

If I can kill a duck or goose dead at 30 yards with a $14 dollar box of shells, why should I use something different?
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby On the X » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:37 pm

mudpack wrote:
Well, that clears that up. I figured that I'd said something somewhere that put you in a bad light, now I know what it was. :thumbsup:

While I may very well be a snarky old man :yes: , what I asked about your son's gun was "how many rounds has he put through it?" Remember that? I did notice that your answer to that question was "enough". That told us a great deal, right there.
If answering that question factually would have made you look foolish, then I can see why you'd have a dislike for me; being put on the spot sometimes does that. My advice: don't carry grudges; it can poison your life. Let it go. Factual discussions are good. Hate campaigns are not good.

BTW, calling people names in your posts is considered very bad form around here.

Mudpack, I guess when you insult as many people as you do, it's hard to keep track. My answer wasn't "enough", it was and I quote "he puts as many rounds through it a boy from 9-13 could while hunting with his father" Your response then was "....closer to two boxes than to 10'000 rounds" Now I ask you mudpack, you have no clue how much my son and I hunt, and yes 10'000 is a lot of rounds, but still, we both know your "analytical thinking" wasn't the reason for your remark. Your analytical reading skills need improving, along with Franks by the way.....refer to whats in bold above as your reference point.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby SMcGarrity » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:41 pm

This has turned into a fun conversation and we are all along for the ride. Thanks for the hi-jack gents!

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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby On the X » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:27 pm

SMcGarrity wrote:This has turned into a fun conversation and we are all along for the ride. Thanks for the hi-jack gents!

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I apologize for my part in the hi-jacking
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby rebelcj7 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:48 pm

goosepit2007 wrote:
Rebel,

Is that 10 dollars cheaper then the suggested retail price of hevi-metal per box?

goose


My apologies in delay of response, but yes it is my understanding that it will be approximately 10 dollars cheaper then the suggested retail price of hevi-metal per box.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:52 pm

rebelcj7 wrote:
goosepit2007 wrote:
Rebel,

Is that 10 dollars cheaper then the suggested retail price of hevi-metal per box?

goose


My apologies in delay of response, but yes it is my understanding that it will be approximately 10 dollars cheaper then the suggested retail price of hevi-metal per box.


~$22-25/box?
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby lostknife4 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:16 pm

mudpack wrote:
On the X wrote:Bravo, freakin bravo dz, I too read for years. Some of the guys are real pieces of work for sure. I guess everyone needs a place to reign, even if it's an internet site.


I've noticed, X, that your posts lately seem to mainly be complaints about, or attacks on, some other poster. If that's why you decided to become a member, I suggest you go back to only reading. You were more helpful as a guest.


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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby goosepit2007 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:29 am

rebelcj7 wrote:
goosepit2007 wrote:
Rebel,

Is that 10 dollars cheaper then the suggested retail price of hevi-metal per box?

goose


My apologies in delay of response, but yes it is my understanding that it will be approximately 10 dollars cheaper then the suggested retail price of hevi-metal per box.


Rebel,
what is the suggested retail price of hevi-metal loads? that way all of us will have an idea what the regular steel loads will be for cost.
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Last edited by goosepit2007 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby 3200 man » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:41 am

With EMI providing scientific proof of , how much better Heavy Metal or Hevi Steel is over regular round steel shot , might
be a better way of advertising , rather than going by what a couple Trolls say on the forum .

Trying to fool us once ( shame on us ) but , fooling us twice ( shame on you , Trolls ) ! :no:

Buyer Beware , from fellas with the experience to know the difference ! :thumbsup:

Gold hulls are for reloading good round steel shot , nothing else ! :hammer:
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby SPatrick » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:57 am

MSRP for hevi metal is somewhere around 25 a box. I would think that the msrp on HS would be somewhere in the 15-18 range. Again its all about what the retailers set their price at...
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Re: Hevisteel coming back

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:37 am

The travesty is that EMI can make a very good product but don't. I have a lot of respect for those metallurgy professionals who have produced these alloys and even if the shot is not spherical they have a great start on what will be a great product when they get the bugs out and the shot turns out spherical.
The problem is it appears that they have been stretching the truth for so long now not only about applicable ranges for the shot but also it's density that those of us in the know about real external ballistics consider their shot as a lot less than what they advertise it to be. Short range spreader ammo, like some of the other gimmick shot, it is, but for the further ranges it is not.
Aside from the one credible prostaffer, St Patrick, and the guys actually making the alloy the rest of the gang must be the same bunch of marketers who left Coke after they tried to change it, and we all know what happened there.
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