RTO crimp = trim hull?

Interact with others on shot gun shells, reloading, ballistics, chokes, or anything that has to do with your shooting.

Moderators: donell67, NV Guide, pennsyltucky, Ohio Wildfowler

RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby C M Wings » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:57 pm

Hey guys - do you have to trim your hull to do a roll crimp? Can you roll crimp a previously petal crimp hull or do yo have to start with new (or cut off the petal part)??

Thanks -
Ducks
C M Wings
hunter
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 pm


Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:31 pm

I do but it's better of course on a new hull. I have cut open 10 ga 3-1/2" at the edge of the crimp and made 2-7/8 hulls from them to roll crimp, I just let enough hull through the charge bar to catch the very edge of the crimp and the use a razor knife to trim the crimp off.
Lost
Image
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4255
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby C M Wings » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:12 pm

That's a clever application for a charge bar.

Ducks
Ducks
C M Wings
hunter
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:44 pm

I use new primed Cheddite hulls for rto crimp. They are 2 3/4" untrimmed which makes a 3" volume load with a 3" over all loaded length.

Chris
10gaOkie
hunter
 
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: OKC

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:23 pm

C M Wings wrote:That's a clever application for a charge bar.

Ducks


Canadian Redneck trimmer !!
That's a MEC 302, 1-7/8 oz bar for Lead
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4255
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby C M Wings » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:43 pm

Chris, I don't follow... Sounds like you are stretching a hull! D. You mean you use 3 inch data in a 2-3/4 shell and can. Get away with it because of the roll crimp?

Lost, funny.l. I have that charge bar.... So good info!

Ducks
Ducks
C M Wings
hunter
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby Jim Atlas » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:54 pm

Copper pipe. End is flared to fit the hull rim.
Attachments
2014-02-23_20-50-51_226.jpg
User avatar
Jim Atlas
hunter
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:31 am
Location: NW Ore.

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:59 pm

When you roll crimp a standard length new 2 3/4" hull, you only use 1/16" of hull length for the crimp, approx. Therefore, when doing this, you obtain a 3" hull volume. This only works when using the rto crimp, NOT folded crimp which takes over 1/4" length of the hull. You can put a rto crimped 2 3/4" hull next to a factory 3" folded crimp shell and they are the same height or length. If you like, I have pics that I can email you of this comparison which might help you understand better. My email is tengaokie@aol.com.
Also when I load the very same load in both the 3" rto crimp shell and the 3" folded crimp shell, I load them the same except I load the folded crimp shell with one less grain of powder. By doing this, it gives them both the same pressure. Thus, the rto crimp drops pressure and velocity some, unless of course you account for it by adjusting the powder charge.
If you desire to load rto crimped 2 3/4" shells, using 2 3/4" new hulls, you will have to trim them shorter than standard over all length.

Chris
10gaOkie
hunter
 
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: OKC

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby Jim Atlas » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:49 pm

I will add to the Okie's comments that the allowable OAL for la loaded 2-3/4" roll crimped shell is longer than a folded one.
Also, for what it's worth, the length of a loaded shell only matters as it affects the gun's cycling. In other words, as long as the hull isn't longer than 2.76", it can be fired in a 2-3/4" gun. I have an old 870 with a standard reserver that has no problem cycling 2-3/4" roll crimped shells that are as long as a 3" folded one.
User avatar
Jim Atlas
hunter
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:31 am
Location: NW Ore.

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby 10gaOkie » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:57 am

I might add....it is not ok to use 3" volume hull load data for a 2 3/4" volume hull. I do not do this in any case ever.

Chris
10gaOkie
hunter
 
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: OKC

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby C M Wings » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:04 am

Chris - so... almost sounds like a contradiction? One post says that due to less material needed, a roll crimp gives a 2-3/4 shell 3" volume, the you say in another post you don't use 3" data in a 2 3/4 shell.... So I get it that one cannot do that with a fold crimp, but with a roll crimp, if a 3" load fits in a shorter shell, why not? Doesn't it just save on trimming down a 3" hull??

Joe
Ducks
C M Wings
hunter
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby 10gaOkie » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:34 am

The key here is volume. The volume has much to do with controling pressure. You say if it fits, why not? The answer is increased pressure which will be above max and not safe. I never once said I use a 3" recipe in a 2 3/4" hull. What I said was I make a 3" volume hull using a new 2 3/4" hull which allows me to use a 3" volume recipe. Volume, volume, volume is the key here. Anyway, generally, a 3" volume" recipe will not fit in a 2 3/4" volume shell anyway.
The load I am loading will not fit in a 2 3/4" folded crimp hull, no way, no how. But it will fit in a 3" volume hull made by roll crimping a new 2 3/4" hull. I gave you my email to send you pics of these loads and hulls to make it more plain. You never contacted me. I cannot make this anymore plain in words.

Chris
10gaOkie
hunter
 
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: OKC

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby C M Wings » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:55 am

Chris - I tried emailing and I get an "invalid email address" error using tengaokie@aol.com.

Joe
Ducks
C M Wings
hunter
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: RTO crimp = trim hull?

Postby 10gaOkie » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:31 pm

Joe
You might try that email addy again. Its a good one as I get lots of emails everyday. Just click on the blue link. Another way is to send me a PM that contains your email addy.

Chris
10gaOkie
hunter
 
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: OKC


Return to Shotshell, Reloading, Ballistics, & Chokes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jim Atlas and 12 guests