SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Interact with others on shot gun shells, reloading, ballistics, chokes, or anything that has to do with your shooting.

Moderators: donell67, Ohio Wildfowler, NV Guide, pennsyltucky

SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby Solwaycalls » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:37 am

I have shot SP10 Mag 10g for over 20 years and an Ithica mag 10 before that but loading steel shot shells in the last few years is knocking hell out of these guns is anyone else seeing this ?
The loads I am using are the same as some of you Guys on here so some of you must be having the same problems.
I have seen a few SP10s in the last year or so over here in England that have the same problem the bolt slot in the barrel being damaged and making the bolt head space bigger which in turn causes the gun to start jamming.
Once the head space becomes slack the head of the cartridge or shell is allowed to be pushed back under firing and the head bulges especially in the ejector claw slot.
Anyone else having these problems ?
Eddie
Solwaycalls
hunter
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:28 am


Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby BT Justice » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:51 am

Maybe time for a new set of springs in the gun, Mag-10's and SP-10's rely heavily on the recoil springs and they do wear them out.
If the gun is old and you have shot it quite a bit eventually things wear out. Another thing to consider is the bolt buffer and slide buffer ring, both of them wear out also. I replace them whenever I get a used SP-10 to work on, slide buffer ring is hard to find in many instances.
User avatar
BT Justice
hunter
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby Solwaycalls » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:58 am

Replacing these parts would not have anything to do with the slot in the barrel being dented or damaged though would it ?
Solwaycalls
hunter
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:28 am

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby BT Justice » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:59 am

I'm fairly certain that's why Remington added that Slide Buffer to the gun, the Mag-10's didn't have them. I know every Sp-10 I come across they are chewed up and need replacing.
Brownells had them in stock, if nothing else it won't cost much to replace it.
http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/ ... 10538.aspx
Replacing the Bolt Buffer helps also if you can find one.
User avatar
BT Justice
hunter
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:02 am

With insufficient pressure from the springs the bounceback may compromise a full and total lockup and that would cause some wear on the barrel locking slot which in turn would cause some extra headspace.
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:04 am

BT Justice wrote:I'm fairly certain that's why Remington added that Slide Buffer to the gun, the Mag-10's didn't have them. I know every Sp-10 I come across they are chewed up and need replacing.
Brownells had them in stock, if nothing else it won't cost much to replace it.
http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/ ... 10538.aspx
Replacing the Bolt Buffer helps also if you can find one.


Great, that is if Homeland Security will allow Brownell's to export it out of the country!
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby BT Justice » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:25 am

lostknife4 wrote:
BT Justice wrote:I'm fairly certain that's why Remington added that Slide Buffer to the gun, the Mag-10's didn't have them. I know every Sp-10 I come across they are chewed up and need replacing.
Brownells had them in stock, if nothing else it won't cost much to replace it.
http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/ ... 10538.aspx
Replacing the Bolt Buffer helps also if you can find one.


Great, that is if Homeland Security will allow Brownell's to export it out of the country!
Lost

At any other time in my life I probably would have had a good laugh at your statement
The way things have been going the past few years, I believe it.....
User avatar
BT Justice
hunter
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby C M Wings » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:37 am

There are two recoil buffers on the SP-10, one on the bolt, and one on the slide extension assembly. I somehow lost mine in the extension assembly last year and with just a dozen or so turkey loads completely beat that assembly to hell. Bent it so that the two forks would not align with the receiver holes. Bulged the tube as well. What a mess. Took me a year to find another one! I was able to get the gun running by filing etc in the mean time, but man was I glad when I found another!

A friend milled me 2 bolt buffers out of teflon as the factory ones last about 5 shots it seems.

I know a guy who runs 2 buffers in the slide extension to further reduce impetus on the bolt. Never hasn't cycled.

The Wolff extra power recoil spring helps reduce recoil a little too. It is about an inch longer than the factory.

Ducks
Ducks
C M Wings
hunter
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby 3200 man » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:45 am

A gun part by any other name can be shipped out of the country with no problems , you just have be creative !
Jobbers will only call it by its real name , but a Waterfowler can help our friends because , who is more creative
than US ? :yes:
3200 man
hunter
 
Posts: 2942
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:30 am

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:52 am

BT I have a Leupold LPS scope, I have a few of these, that is 30 mm dia and I bought one off of eBay, apparently someone tried to use 1" dia rings on it and as a consequence damaged the tube. So I called Leupold to see if it could be repaired etc. They advised me that I should send it to their repair facility in western Canada and since their Canadian repair depot can't repair the 30 mm tubed scopes then they would send it stateside at some undetermined delayed time in the future and likewise on the return trip time wise because all these special permits had to be acquired both to import gun "parts" in to the States and also for Luepold to ship out of the States so it looked like an at least 6 to 8 month turn around. So I asked the Leupold guy what the normal US turn around time would be if I took it across the border, claiming it at both the Canadian and US Customs and shipped it via US Mail and was told it would take less than a week and it would have to be shipped back to an address stateside. This also sounds absof....glutely ridiculous but that is the new "rules". I noted on the page in the link provided above that if the value of those SP10 parts is less than $100.00 then the restrictions are waived, big deal, LOL, everything today seems to be over $100.00............. Here's the strange part of bringing gun parts from the US to Canada, if I buy ammo or powder or gun PARTS, not guns but just parts, scopes too, from the US via automobile I am not required to stop at the US customs when entering Canada, and of course I do stop at the Canadian Customs to declare, ie tell them everything and more about what I know about any question they ask to which they assign a value on the goods and I then have the privilege of paying sales tax again on said goods but my point is that the US Customs at Point of Departure doesn't give a rat's rectum what I am taking out of the country! So that means that if you want some Wolfe Springs or any other parts for your guns then make sure that they send them in separate packaging whose value is less than $100.. per package !!!!!!!!!!!! And make sure that it is also shipped by any Mail/Courier service OTHER THAN USMail because unless you are a registered US mail recipient at any ship-to address in the US then USMail will send the packages back to the shipper, what a complete crock!
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby Solwaycalls » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:08 am

Thanks I have ordered some parts but not sure these parts will solve this problem.
The way I see these guns working is the gun is fired, the lump on the bolt is locked in the barrel slot Which takes the blast force just like any gun and when the wad/shot etc passes the hole in the barrel which exhausts gas sending the tube back to hit the rail and this cocks the gun, ejects the spent shell etc.
The damage I have seen on several guns has to be the initial smack as the shell is expanding under pressure, all the other things are happening later all be it milliseconds later none of these parts should effect the bolt lump or barrel slot.
I know that once the gun has had a bit of stick this is exaggerated due to the head space.
I have proved this on some guns with a lot of wear and head space by placing paper stickers on the head of the shell in some cases 3 stickers which takes up the head space and the shell does not bulge at the head and the gun ejects perfectly, proving that the problem was the head space caused by wear or over pressure. The firing pin passes through the stickers.
Solwaycalls
hunter
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:28 am

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby 3200 man » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:29 am

Solway you can also see this head-space problem on a spent hull , with the rim on the brass/steel being more radius'ed !
3200 man
hunter
 
Posts: 2942
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:30 am

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:35 am

The quick fix is to use lots of stickers but the problem obviously is because of either an incomplete lock up while in or almost in battery but enough to release the firing pin mechanism to enable functioning or a worn lockup mechanism that may or not be fixed with new springs. This situation is akin to the Blish Block principle used in the Thompson Submachine gun but is aggravated by bounceback of the bolt when the bolt slams into battery. I would try the new springs first and if that doesn't cure your problem then you are in deep water.....
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby Solwaycalls » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:42 am

Will do cheers, Eddie
Solwaycalls
hunter
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:28 am

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby 3200 man » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:52 am

With shooting over-pressure loads I have seen Beretta Autos with broken Accuator-rods , thinking the material they were
made out of was faulty , but , it being a safety link when the stock spring feels does cause excessive wear on the guide-rails
with normal loads , I know !
3200 man
hunter
 
Posts: 2942
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:30 am

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:55 am

3200 man wrote:With shooting over-pressure loads I have seen Beretta Autos with broken Accuator-rods , thinking the material they were
made out of was faulty , but , it being a safety link when the stock spring feels does cause excessive wear on the guide-rails
with normal loads , I know !


That's kind of what you would expect with a fail safe mechanism but begs the question: why are you shooting "over pressure" loadings in the first place?
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby 3200 man » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:23 am

Bill , I don't...........but some HM shooters do ? :lol3: :lol3:
Last edited by 3200 man on Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
3200 man
hunter
 
Posts: 2942
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:30 am

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby C M Wings » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:03 am

I don't think barrel proofing equates to receiver proofing. Wear and tear happens; exacerbated by high bolt speed. I have seen barrels bulge, but receivers split - or end up with the bolt sticking out of the back of the gun (that was a dynamic day to say the least). I have only once seen the cartoon "banana peel" splitting of a barrel, and that was in a shotgun test for a military application from a well known manufacturer. Pump gun by the way. When we had the test incident review, the manufacturer asked, "Did you clean the gun after every round?" They won the contract anyway.
Ducks
C M Wings
hunter
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby goosepit2007 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:06 am

lostknife4 wrote:BT I have a Leupold LPS scope, I have a few of these, that is 30 mm dia and I bought one off of eBay, apparently someone tried to use 1" dia rings on it and as a consequence damaged the tube. So I called Leupold to see if it could be repaired etc. They advised me that I should send it to their repair facility in western Canada and since their Canadian repair depot can't repair the 30 mm tubed scopes then they would send it stateside at some undetermined delayed time in the future and likewise on the return trip time wise because all these special permits had to be acquired both to import gun "parts" in to the States and also for Luepold to ship out of the States so it looked like an at least 6 to 8 month turn around. So I asked the Leupold guy what the normal US turn around time would be if I took it across the border, claiming it at both the Canadian and US Customs and shipped it via US Mail and was told it would take less than a week and it would have to be shipped back to an address stateside. This also sounds absof....glutely ridiculous but that is the new "rules". I noted on the page in the link provided above that if the value of those SP10 parts is less than $100.00 then the restrictions are waived, big deal, LOL, everything today seems to be over $100.00............. Here's the strange part of bringing gun parts from the US to Canada, if I buy ammo or powder or gun PARTS, not guns but just parts, scopes too, from the US via automobile I am not required to stop at the US customs when entering Canada, and of course I do stop at the Canadian Customs to declare, ie tell them everything and more about what I know about any question they ask to which they assign a value on the goods and I then have the privilege of paying sales tax again on said goods but my point is that the US Customs at Point of Departure doesn't give a rat's rectum what I am taking out of the country! So that means that if you want some Wolfe Springs or any other parts for your guns then make sure that they send them in separate packaging whose value is less than $100.. per package !!!!!!!!!!!! And make sure that it is also shipped by any Mail/Courier service OTHER THAN USMail because unless you are a registered US mail recipient at any ship-to address in the US then USMail will send the packages back to the shipper, what a complete crock!
Lost


lost i just had a company wanting me to use there service the other day for you canadians, they are setting up pickup areas for you guys here in the usa. so you can get around these rules. some places even have fork lifts ect to handle heavier prodcuts. i never really paid attention to the details but know i understand why they are doing this service. all you would do as far as i know is show I.d. and then you get the package from them if i remember right so they do not get shipped back from the us postal service. kind of like a mail box company.

he said that he will check back latter after we think about it but we do not have to many people from canada that want to buy products from us. I threw the papers away so i do not have the locations of those delivery spots along the canada border.

goose
goosepit2007
hunter
 
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:13 pm

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby solway gunner » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:16 pm

Solwaycalls wrote:I have shot SP10 Mag 10g for over 20 years and an Ithica mag 10 before that but loading steel shot shells in the last few years is knocking hell out of these guns is anyone else seeing this ?
The loads I am using are the same as some of you Guys on here so some of you must be having the same problems.
I have seen a few SP10s in the last year or so over here in England that have the same problem the bolt slot in the barrel being damaged and making the bolt head space bigger which in turn causes the gun to start jamming.
Once the head space becomes slack the head of the cartridge or shell is allowed to be pushed back under firing and the head bulges especially in the ejector claw slot.
Anyone else having these problems ?
Eddie


No problems on our side of the border Ed-you guys on the south side are always trying to squeeze that little bit extra out of your shells.. :wink:
Seriously,the only problem ive had through no fault of the gun ,was little flakey pieces of undercoat falling into the internals when Hydrographics didnt bother masking inside the receiver off before they dura coated it,which ive now removed.
solway gunner
hunter
 
Posts: 1459
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:50 am
Location: scotland uk

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby TexasGeese » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:40 pm

I haven't had many problems with my sp10, but I did break the slide link in my mag 10. I think it was directly related to shooting cases of sporting ammo loads and 2oz hevi turkey loads. I read the part is known to be brittle in these guns, but did not have problems until I started using these loads. I also had a bulge in the barrel, but not sure if related or not.
User avatar
TexasGeese
hunter
 
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:33 pm
Location: TX

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:56 pm

goosepit2007 wrote:
lost i just had a company wanting me to use there service the other day for you canadians, they are setting up pickup areas for you guys here in the usa. so you can get around these rules. some places even have fork lifts ect to handle heavier prodcuts. i never really paid attention to the details but know i understand why they are doing this service. all you would do as far as i know is show I.d. and then you get the package from them if i remember right so they do not get shipped back from the us postal service. kind of like a mail box company.

he said that he will check back latter after we think about it but we do not have to many people from canada that want to buy products from us. I threw the papers away so i do not have the locations of those delivery spots along the canada border.

goose


UPS and several of the couriers are getting on the band wagon, there are even some private stores and box stores that provide a type of service but the big hitch is USMail who will not deliver an alien's ( that's me and my fellow countrymen) mail to a US address unless said alien is registered with the US MAil service and given a number to use on their mail so USMail can recognize them. What a great bit of marketing that is, drive everyone to use the couriers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Some of these guys must have worked for environmetal!!! Or maybe coke when they decided that coke classic was to be phased out LMAO.
SO the service has been around for a while. I tried to explain to the store in Calais Maine, and every other gun store I frequent, that this is the time of year that guys are reloading and need supplies and order them in for pick up to ship-to addresses because the local stores don't stock this stuff at this time of year, so it would follow that maybe they should have some reloading supplies but it all falls on deaf ears it seems.
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4498
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby goosepit2007 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:18 pm

lostknife4 wrote:
goosepit2007 wrote:
lost i just had a company wanting me to use there service the other day for you canadians, they are setting up pickup areas for you guys here in the usa. so you can get around these rules. some places even have fork lifts ect to handle heavier prodcuts. i never really paid attention to the details but know i understand why they are doing this service. all you would do as far as i know is show I.d. and then you get the package from them if i remember right so they do not get shipped back from the us postal service. kind of like a mail box company.

he said that he will check back latter after we think about it but we do not have to many people from canada that want to buy products from us. I threw the papers away so i do not have the locations of those delivery spots along the canada border.

goose


UPS and several of the couriers are getting on the band wagon, there are even some private stores and box stores that provide a type of service but the big hitch is USMail who will not deliver an alien's ( that's me and my fellow countrymen) mail to a US address unless said alien is registered with the US MAil service and given a number to use on their mail so USMail can recognize them. What a great bit of marketing that is, drive everyone to use the couriers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Some of these guys must have worked for environmetal!!! Or maybe coke when they decided that coke classic was to be phased out LMAO.
SO the service has been around for a while. I tried to explain to the store in Calais Maine, and every other gun store I frequent, that this is the time of year that guys are reloading and need supplies and order them in for pick up to ship-to addresses because the local stores don't stock this stuff at this time of year, so it would follow that maybe they should have some reloading supplies but it all falls on deaf ears it seems.
Lost

from what i understand you contact this company and then you set up a box and have the stuff sent to that box address in there store/storage area. then all it has is your name and there address with certain box number. i wish i would have saved the info and i could have gave you there info and you could have found the closest place to ship too. then it is up to you to get it across the border type deal. is how it was explained to me, after i mthaught about it for while.

goose
goosepit2007
hunter
 
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:13 pm

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby BT Justice » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:06 am

Lost and Goosepit,
I understand and think it's completely ridiculous, the one that gets me is how a scope can be even a restricted item, unless it's mounted on a rifle it's a piece of optical equipment not a gun part. I've seen scopes used for quite a few other things when they are mounted on different types of equipment, one company I used to do work for used them for line of sight mounting of satellite dishes (telecommunications dishes).
Oh well welcome to the future, the Paranoid Future... :lol3:
User avatar
BT Justice
hunter
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: SP10 showing signs of wear with pressure ?

Postby BT Justice » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:18 am

lostknife4 wrote:
3200 man wrote:With shooting over-pressure loads I have seen Beretta Autos with broken Accuator-rods , thinking the material they were
made out of was faulty , but , it being a safety link when the stock spring feels does cause excessive wear on the guide-rails
with normal loads , I know !


That's kind of what you would expect with a fail safe mechanism but begs the question: why are you shooting "over pressure" loadings in the first place?
Lost

I really don't like to comment on it as I don't want to get into heated discussions about loads but a lot of these guys are shooting loads they think are fine pressure wise and they are not. I think I have given repeated warnings about many of the Alliant 3 1/2" 12 ga loads being overpressure and some of the 10 ga loads are also, it's the individuals choice to listen or not.
Also a lot of the loads these guys are using with the TPS wads should be thoroughly tested, hopefully they are. Pressures from most of the BP wads run a minimum of 10% higher than the RSI wads, again that's MINIMUM.
User avatar
BT Justice
hunter
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:43 pm


Return to Shotshell, Reloading, Ballistics, & Chokes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests