Why Incredibly Fast Shells

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby steelshotshooter » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:55 am

Mugzwump wrote:
steelshotshooter wrote:

Yeah, I know everybody has their own opinion but, I just know what works for me....
.
.


That's the key to life my friend.

:beer:

Mugz.


:beer:

.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Theduckguru » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
BT Justice wrote:OK so in most instances in my paltry 30 plus years of hunting, how come just about every bird I shoot only has a few pellet strikes in it but the bird is dead? How come if I use even a lead shot load that has 300 plus pellets in it, most of the birds aren't like Swiss Cheese with a several dozen pellet strikes in them, because it doesn't work that way that's why.
It's not that more pellets in a load doesn't help increase your chances of hitting a bird, it's that the pellets that did hit the bird had enough energy and were in the right place at the right time to give a clean kill on the bird.


This couldn't be closer to the truth. I can't remember killing a bird with more than 4 or 5 holes in it, and that would be the extreme case, most times it's only one or two, and sometimes I can't find more than a spot on the head where a pellet made only a dent... if that. A lot of birds get "knocked out" by a pellet that hit the right spot but never penetrates. They die when they hit the ground... or they're the ones that get up and fly away!

This thread has taken a wrong turn, the OP asked about fast and slow loads... everyone talking about ducks at 65 yards? Keep it realistic, you ain't killing a duck and holding any self respect at that distance. Any one who pulls the trigger on a bird that far is just too lazy and trigger happy to wait for a better shot, and in my book just a bad hunter. If you spent as much time trying to better your hunting methods to get closer to the birds as you do trying to find that perfect pattern all-round awesome hand load you wouldn't need the damn round in the first place.

You can throw all kinds of scenarios about energy and velocity etc... the thing is if you have a pellet that is passing through a bird completely, it didn't need all the energy you gave it and you could have sacrificed some of that energy for more payload. Whether you "need" that payload is your opinion, it's fine to just choose to suck up the extra recoil and loss of unnecessary powder. If we had pellets that fragged out on impact, then by all means amp up the energy and gut the bird in the air. The only time I would say it's good to have that much energy is if you're clean through one bird and dropping the bird behind it with the same pellet. Otherwise it's for nothing.

Remember the days you hunted small game with a BB gun? That thing maybe fired a BB at 300fps... I killed partridge and jumped shot and killed puddle ducks with mine. There's your baseline for necessary energy.

When discussing these factors we should really put a guideline of factors in play, such as using examples within the 40 yard range, average pellet mass and keeping it to the 12 gauge bore. Everything else is just clouding the picture and making for bad arguments.

Mugz.


I enjoy shooting long range and close range birds. My experiance is 2s at 1380 fps will take mallards to 60 yards on overhead, on-coming, or crossing shots in low wind conditions, BUT, I would also not do this over dense cover or water enviroments. I also find all sizes of steel shot will perform farther than most report if you have have the proper lead.
Banded Birds - Mallard / Black Ducks, 3 Jack Miners and 25 AVISE. BW Teal - 2, Wood Ducks - 1, Morning Doves - 1, Snow/Ross - 2 (both reward bands), Canada Geese - 11 (2 neck collars)
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Beretta06 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:43 pm

3200 is correct in saying 1oz of #3s is perfect for a decoying load for ducks. I tinkered with 4s and 5s. Go with the 3s. Although in the Central Valley at some point we will have rain and tule fog. I ounce 4s or 5s with my cylinder choke works nice when your max range and visibility is in that 30-35 yard range.

For me I combine a decoying and short passing load. Rsi #88 the majority of my work is done in the 30 to 50 yard range. I just don't take shots over 50yd anymore. It's 470gr of steel close to 1 1/16oz of steel 3s 1730fps. I like to keep the pellet count up as we shoot a lot of greenwings. Pattern density is key with small ducks. If I were shooting medium and large only. I might drop to 7/8oz or move up to #2s or #1s

For windy days I shoot 1 1/8 oz #2s @ 1595 or 1 1/4oz #2s 1615fps windy days is a parade of big ducks at our club.

I shoot an Italian gun don't worry you will find the right combo it just takes some effort. I'm still working at it. I'm going to work on a few recipes over the summer out of the rsi book.

I shot 3.5" 1 1/2 oz @1500fps for 10 straight years 60 + yards is doubtful.

Dwight

Good luck stay in contact on your project
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:55 pm

Beretta06 wrote:3200 is correct in saying 1oz of #3s is perfect for a decoying load for ducks. I tinkered with 4s and 5s. Go with the 3s. Although in the Central Valley at some point we will have rain and tule fog. I ounce 4s or 5s with my cylinder choke works nice when your max range and visibility is in that 30-35 yard range.

For me I combine a decoying and short passing load. Rsi #88 the majority of my work is done in the 30 to 50 yard range. I just don't take shots over 50yd anymore. It's 470gr of steel close to 1 1/16oz of steel 3s 1730fps. I like to keep the pellet count up as we shoot a lot of greenwings. Pattern density is key with small ducks. If I were shooting medium and large only. I might drop to 7/8oz or move up to #2s or #1s

For windy days I shoot 1 1/8 oz #2s @ 1595 or 1 1/4oz #2s 1615fps windy days is a parade of big ducks at our club.

I shoot an Italian gun don't worry you will find the right combo it just takes some effort. I'm still working at it. I'm going to work on a few recipes over the summer out of the rsi book.

I shot 3.5" 1 1/2 oz @1500fps for 10 straight years 60 + yards is doubtful.

Dwight

Good luck stay in contact on your project


Just curious as to why anyone who would choose to shoot a 7/8 oz load at birds wouldn't just shoot a 20 gauge that day?

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Beretta06 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:07 pm

I have an $1800 dollar 12 gauge. 20ga isn't versatile enough you are limited to that 7/8 or 15/16oz at a low velocity. I'm 6'3" and like a long length of pull for fit.



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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby solway gunner » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:11 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
Beretta06 wrote:3200 is correct in saying 1oz of #3s is perfect for a decoying load for ducks. I tinkered with 4s and 5s. Go with the 3s. Although in the Central Valley at some point we will have rain and tule fog. I ounce 4s or 5s with my cylinder choke works nice when your max range and visibility is in that 30-35 yard range.

For me I combine a decoying and short passing load. Rsi #88 the majority of my work is done in the 30 to 50 yard range. I just don't take shots over 50yd anymore. It's 470gr of steel close to 1 1/16oz of steel 3s 1730fps. I like to keep the pellet count up as we shoot a lot of greenwings. Pattern density is key with small ducks. If I were shooting medium and large only. I might drop to 7/8oz or move up to #2s or #1s

For windy days I shoot 1 1/8 oz #2s @ 1595 or 1 1/4oz #2s 1615fps windy days is a parade of big ducks at our club.

I shoot an Italian gun don't worry you will find the right combo it just takes some effort. I'm still working at it. I'm going to work on a few recipes over the summer out of the rsi book.

I shot 3.5" 1 1/2 oz @1500fps for 10 straight years 60 + yards is doubtful.

Dwight

Good luck stay in contact on your project


Just curious as to why anyone who would choose to shoot a 7/8 oz load at birds wouldn't just shoot a 20 gauge that day?

Mugz.

why ? because the bigger bore always affords the best pattern with a shorter shotstring,is not as restricted by pellet size, has less recoil in like for velocitys and will always have a lower breech pressure which in turn has a detrimental effect on patterns,thats why.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby steelshotshooter » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:11 pm

[/quote]

Just curious as to why anyone who would choose to shoot a 7/8 oz load at birds wouldn't just shoot a 20 gauge that day?

Mugz.[/quote]

If a 7/8 oz. load in a 20 ga. could be safely pushed to 1,600 fps. with next to no recoil, like the 12 ga., I a would swap over to a 20 ga....
.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby lostknife4 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:17 pm

It's amazing what 7/8 oz of TSS #7 will do at 82 yards.... And from a 28 ga @ 1350 MV. It has both the energy and pattern density.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby steelshotshooter » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:29 pm

lostknife4 wrote:It's amazing what 7/8 oz of TSS #7 will do at 82 yards.... And from a 28 ga @ 1350 MV. It has both the energy and pattern density.
Lost


You can actually shoot and kill ducks at that distance with that load on a regular basis???
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby lostknife4 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:45 pm

Of course but only when they are standing, not walking just standing still, on the sand bar. The trick is to know the POA and POI at range, there is plenty of pellets and a great pattern, a bit sparce at range but a LOT better than any Letter size steel. 7/8 oz has 160 pellets. The following chart is my 12 ga 1-1/4 TSS loading, I normally use 1 oz in the 12 ga.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:50 pm

solway gunner wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
Beretta06 wrote:3200 is correct in saying 1oz of #3s is perfect for a decoying load for ducks. I tinkered with 4s and 5s. Go with the 3s. Although in the Central Valley at some point we will have rain and tule fog. I ounce 4s or 5s with my cylinder choke works nice when your max range and visibility is in that 30-35 yard range.

For me I combine a decoying and short passing load. Rsi #88 the majority of my work is done in the 30 to 50 yard range. I just don't take shots over 50yd anymore. It's 470gr of steel close to 1 1/16oz of steel 3s 1730fps. I like to keep the pellet count up as we shoot a lot of greenwings. Pattern density is key with small ducks. If I were shooting medium and large only. I might drop to 7/8oz or move up to #2s or #1s

For windy days I shoot 1 1/8 oz #2s @ 1595 or 1 1/4oz #2s 1615fps windy days is a parade of big ducks at our club.

I shoot an Italian gun don't worry you will find the right combo it just takes some effort. I'm still working at it. I'm going to work on a few recipes over the summer out of the rsi book.

I shot 3.5" 1 1/2 oz @1500fps for 10 straight years 60 + yards is doubtful.

Dwight

Good luck stay in contact on your project


Just curious as to why anyone who would choose to shoot a 7/8 oz load at birds wouldn't just shoot a 20 gauge that day?

Mugz.

why ? because the bigger bore always affords the best pattern with a shorter shotstring,is not as restricted by pellet size, has less recoil in like for velocitys and will always have a lower breech pressure which in turn has a detrimental effect on patterns,thats why.


Pretty sure you and I covered that in our last discussion solway... with that thinking we all should be using 10 gauges.

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby mudpack » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:51 pm

lostknife4 wrote:Of course but only when they are standing, not walking just standing still, on the sand bar.

So THAT'S how our brothers to the north do it...???
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:04 pm

Beretta06 wrote:I have an $1800 dollar 12 gauge. 20ga isn't versatile enough you are limited to that 7/8 or 15/16oz at a low velocity. I'm 6'3" and like a long length of pull for fit.



Dwight

I agree with that, it's not capable of shooting anything more than the 1oz load at effective velocity... but If it were my choice to shoot a 7/8 oz steel load I'd take out the 20 with a full choke. I learned to hunt geese with a .410 shooting #4 lead...

I just don't get why someone using a 12 ga would choose to shoot such a light load at birds, saying pattern is all that... Am I the only one that thinks that is odd? I get what Lost is doing with the TSS, that's his thing and he can use the 28 to do things a 12 shooting steel wont. That's just the physics of it.

Wouldn't you be sacrificing pattern density along with pattern size and thus effectiveness by making such a choice to shoot a light load? Velocity is secondary to performance at this point... I'm missing the reasoning behind this 7/8 oz at ducks idea.

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby lostknife4 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:04 pm

Lmao ........
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:05 pm

steelshotshooter wrote:


Just curious as to why anyone who would choose to shoot a 7/8 oz load at birds wouldn't just shoot a 20 gauge that day?

Mugz.[/quote]

If a 7/8 oz. load in a 20 ga. could be safely pushed to 1,600 fps. with next to no recoil, like the 12 ga., I a would swap over to a 20 ga....
.
.[/quote]

Kent makes 20 ga 7/8 oz loads up to 1550fps.... I'm sure you could hand load it to 1600. Many say a 20 ga patterns better than the 12... but I think that depends on your idea of a better pattern.

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:23 pm

mudpack wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:Of course but only when they are standing, not walking just standing still, on the sand bar.

So THAT'S how our brothers to the north do it...???


Take it easy Lost... giving away all our secrets to success.

It's no different than shooting a bird that lands in your decoys is it? though 82 yards sounds more like an experiment than normal practice. Surely you could sneak up a little closer than that? :wink:

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby steelshotshooter » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:31 pm

The 12 ga. has a LOT less felt recoil and for anything over 40 yds., which the vast majority of my pass shooting is, at least for me, the 12 ga. is just plain hard to beat. I like the heavier guns and 30" barrels. I have tried various 20 gauges and just don't like them - for anything...

I have a Browning Sweet 16 that does well but, I still prefer a 12 ga....
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:44 pm

steelshotshooter wrote:The 12 ga. has a LOT less felt recoil and for anything over 40 yds., which the vast majority of my pass shooting is, at least for me, the 12 ga. is just plain hard to beat. I like the heavier guns and 30" barrels. I have tried various 20 gauges and just don't like them - for anything...

I have a Browning Sweet 16 that does well but, I still prefer a 12 ga....
.
.


So do I... with 1 3/8 oz of shot.

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby steelshotshooter » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:54 pm

A 7/8 oz. 12 ga. loads have a LOT less recoil than a 1 3/8 oz. load but, I'm not sure how far that heavy of a load will reliably and consistently kill ducks and geese. I know what the lighter loads will do....
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby solway gunner » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:06 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
solway gunner wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
Beretta06 wrote:3200 is correct in saying 1oz of #3s is perfect for a decoying load for ducks. I tinkered with 4s and 5s. Go with the 3s. Although in the Central Valley at some point we will have rain and tule fog. I ounce 4s or 5s with my cylinder choke works nice when your max range and visibility is in that 30-35 yard range.

For me I combine a decoying and short passing load. Rsi #88 the majority of my work is done in the 30 to 50 yard range. I just don't take shots over 50yd anymore. It's 470gr of steel close to 1 1/16oz of steel 3s 1730fps. I like to keep the pellet count up as we shoot a lot of greenwings. Pattern density is key with small ducks. If I were shooting medium and large only. I might drop to 7/8oz or move up to #2s or #1s

For windy days I shoot 1 1/8 oz #2s @ 1595 or 1 1/4oz #2s 1615fps windy days is a parade of big ducks at our club.

I shoot an Italian gun don't worry you will find the right combo it just takes some effort. I'm still working at it. I'm going to work on a few recipes over the summer out of the rsi book.

I shot 3.5" 1 1/2 oz @1500fps for 10 straight years 60 + yards is doubtful.

Dwight

Good luck stay in contact on your project


Just curious as to why anyone who would choose to shoot a 7/8 oz load at birds wouldn't just shoot a 20 gauge that day?

Mugz.

why ? because the bigger bore always affords the best pattern with a shorter shotstring,is not as restricted by pellet size, has less recoil in like for velocitys and will always have a lower breech pressure which in turn has a detrimental effect on patterns,thats why.


Pretty sure you and I covered that in our last discussion solway... with that thinking we all should be using 10 gauges.

Mugz.


Not strictly true as the 12ga covers 99% of wildfowling senarios,all other gauges inc 10ga make up the other 1% ,yet this is 20ga 7/8oz v 12ga 7/8oz and 12ga wins by the very same principle as the 10ga wins over the 12ga,and so on.The bigger the bore size the more effective the gun shall be in any given situation with like for payloads.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:13 pm

solway gunner wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
solway gunner wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
Beretta06 wrote:3200 is correct in saying 1oz of #3s is perfect for a decoying load for ducks. I tinkered with 4s and 5s. Go with the 3s. Although in the Central Valley at some point we will have rain and tule fog. I ounce 4s or 5s with my cylinder choke works nice when your max range and visibility is in that 30-35 yard range.

For me I combine a decoying and short passing load. Rsi #88 the majority of my work is done in the 30 to 50 yard range. I just don't take shots over 50yd anymore. It's 470gr of steel close to 1 1/16oz of steel 3s 1730fps. I like to keep the pellet count up as we shoot a lot of greenwings. Pattern density is key with small ducks. If I were shooting medium and large only. I might drop to 7/8oz or move up to #2s or #1s

For windy days I shoot 1 1/8 oz #2s @ 1595 or 1 1/4oz #2s 1615fps windy days is a parade of big ducks at our club.

I shoot an Italian gun don't worry you will find the right combo it just takes some effort. I'm still working at it. I'm going to work on a few recipes over the summer out of the rsi book.

I shot 3.5" 1 1/2 oz @1500fps for 10 straight years 60 + yards is doubtful.

Dwight

Good luck stay in contact on your project


Just curious as to why anyone who would choose to shoot a 7/8 oz load at birds wouldn't just shoot a 20 gauge that day?

Mugz.

why ? because the bigger bore always affords the best pattern with a shorter shotstring,is not as restricted by pellet size, has less recoil in like for velocitys and will always have a lower breech pressure which in turn has a detrimental effect on patterns,thats why.


Pretty sure you and I covered that in our last discussion solway... with that thinking we all should be using 10 gauges.

Mugz.


Not strictly true as the 12ga covers 99% of wildfowling senarios,all other gauges inc 10ga make up the other 1% ,yet this is 20ga 7/8oz v 12ga 7/8oz and 12ga wins by the very same principle as the 10ga wins over the 12ga,and so on.The bigger the bore size the more effective the gun shall be in any given situation with like for payloads.


Nice weave.

Mugz
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:26 pm

steelshotshooter wrote:A 7/8 oz. 12 ga. loads have a LOT less recoil than a 1 3/8 oz. load but, I'm not sure how far that heavy of a load will reliably and consistently kill ducks and geese. I know what the lighter loads will do....
.
.


well.. recoil is something that each person tolerates differently. I shoot a nice old heavy gun with wooden stocks... my bud shoots a modern gun that I find kicks like a mule... though he doesn't mind it. Who's to say whats reasonable? I figure if you can get the gun up for a second shot then whatever recoil isn't a factor.

As far as range goes if they're equal in pellet mass and MV, then they're equal in range. The "heavy" load has a better percentage of making a kill on pellet count alone. Sure a lighter load can be made to go faster and thus kill further but your chances of making the hit are substantially lower anyway...

My 1 3/8 oz store bought are reliable, and consistent... pretty much the whole reason they're a multi-million dollar industry. Whats most important is whether or not I put the load on the bird and the only thing that reliably helps that is number of pellets in the sky and a good judge of lead.

I can't say an increase of 200 fps or so really makes a big difference, and I wouldn't sacrifice payload for it... I'd actually opt for less MV and more payload within reason.

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Jon Bergren » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:45 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
steelshotshooter wrote:A 7/8 oz. 12 ga. loads have a LOT less recoil than a 1 3/8 oz. load but, I'm not sure how far that heavy of a load will reliably and consistently kill ducks and geese. I know what the lighter loads will do....
.
.


well.. recoil is something that each person tolerates differently. I shoot a nice old heavy gun with wooden stocks... my bud shoots a modern gun that I find kicks like a mule... though he doesn't mind it. Who's to say whats reasonable? I figure if you can get the gun up for a second shot then whatever recoil isn't a factor.

As far as range goes if they're equal in pellet mass and MV, then they're equal in range. The "heavy" load has a better percentage of making a kill on pellet count alone. Sure a lighter load can be made to go faster and thus kill further but your chances of making the hit are substantially lower anyway...

My 1 3/8 oz store bought are reliable, and consistent... pretty much the whole reason they're a multi-million dollar industry. Whats most important is whether or not I put the load on the bird and the only thing that reliably helps that is number of pellets in the sky and a good judge of lead.

I can't say an increase of 200 fps or so really makes a big difference, and I wouldn't sacrifice payload for it... I'd actually opt for less MV and more payload within reason.

Mugz.



The reason you probablly don't opt for fast loads is you can't reload them and/or your gun does not pattern them well.
As far as number of pellets in the sky doesn't assure you of a kill. I can hold 7/8 oz of B's together to 60 yds with a killing pattern killing Lessers. It takes 5 pellets with sufficient energy to kill geese and it takes 35 pellets in the pattern to do this. A Terror choke does this for me and the B's will penetrate to kill to 66.5 yds. 200 fps does not make a big difference, however going to a BB from a B will increase the kill distance 4 yds, thats 12 ft . Ned S
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby solway gunner » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:29 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
solway gunner wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
solway gunner wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
Beretta06 wrote:3200 is correct in saying 1oz of #3s is perfect for a decoying load for ducks. I tinkered with 4s and 5s. Go with the 3s. Although in the Central Valley at some point we will have rain and tule fog. I ounce 4s or 5s with my cylinder choke works nice when your max range and visibility is in that 30-35 yard range.

For me I combine a decoying and short passing load. Rsi #88 the majority of my work is done in the 30 to 50 yard range. I just don't take shots over 50yd anymore. It's 470gr of steel close to 1 1/16oz of steel 3s 1730fps. I like to keep the pellet count up as we shoot a lot of greenwings. Pattern density is key with small ducks. If I were shooting medium and large only. I might drop to 7/8oz or move up to #2s or #1s

For windy days I shoot 1 1/8 oz #2s @ 1595 or 1 1/4oz #2s 1615fps windy days is a parade of big ducks at our club.

I shoot an Italian gun don't worry you will find the right combo it just takes some effort. I'm still working at it. I'm going to work on a few recipes over the summer out of the rsi book.

I shot 3.5" 1 1/2 oz @1500fps for 10 straight years 60 + yards is doubtful.

Dwight

Good luck stay in contact on your project


Just curious as to why anyone who would choose to shoot a 7/8 oz load at birds wouldn't just shoot a 20 gauge that day?

Mugz.

why ? because the bigger bore always affords the best pattern with a shorter shotstring,is not as restricted by pellet size, has less recoil in like for velocitys and will always have a lower breech pressure which in turn has a detrimental effect on patterns,thats why.


Pretty sure you and I covered that in our last discussion solway... with that thinking we all should be using 10 gauges.

Mugz.


Not strictly true as the 12ga covers 99% of wildfowling senarios,all other gauges inc 10ga make up the other 1% ,yet this is 20ga 7/8oz v 12ga 7/8oz and 12ga wins by the very same principle as the 10ga wins over the 12ga,and so on.The bigger the bore size the more effective the gun shall be in any given situation with like for payloads.


Nice weave.

Mugz



Now theres a reply brimming with intellect.
Didnt figure that it was too much of a commonsense reply for you to comprehend.I was wrong.
Next time you go down to disneyland with yer red ryder be sure and shoot them 10-15ft birds you like a sittin now wont ya..
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby jpari » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:07 pm

Jon Bergren wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
steelshotshooter wrote:A 7/8 oz. 12 ga. loads have a LOT less recoil than a 1 3/8 oz. load but, I'm not sure how far that heavy of a load will reliably and consistently kill ducks and geese. I know what the lighter loads will do....
.
.


well.. recoil is something that each person tolerates differently. I shoot a nice old heavy gun with wooden stocks... my bud shoots a modern gun that I find kicks like a mule... though he doesn't mind it. Who's to say whats reasonable? I figure if you can get the gun up for a second shot then whatever recoil isn't a factor.

As far as range goes if they're equal in pellet mass and MV, then they're equal in range. The "heavy" load has a better percentage of making a kill on pellet count alone. Sure a lighter load can be made to go faster and thus kill further but your chances of making the hit are substantially lower anyway...

My 1 3/8 oz store bought are reliable, and consistent... pretty much the whole reason they're a multi-million dollar industry. Whats most important is whether or not I put the load on the bird and the only thing that reliably helps that is number of pellets in the sky and a good judge of lead.

I can't say an increase of 200 fps or so really makes a big difference, and I wouldn't sacrifice payload for it... I'd actually opt for less MV and more payload within reason.

Mugz.



The reason you probablly don't opt for fast loads is you can't reload them and/or your gun does not pattern them well.
As far as number of pellets in the sky doesn't assure you of a kill. I can hold 7/8 oz of B's together to 60 yds with a killing pattern killing Lessers. It takes 5 pellets with sufficient energy to kill geese and it takes 35 pellets in the pattern to do this. A Terror choke does this for me and the B's will penetrate to kill to 66.5 yds. 200 fps does not make a big difference, however going to a BB from a B will increase the kill distance 4 yds, thats 12 ft . Ned S


Ned,

I guess the question that now must be asked is what is your reliable killing percentage with your loads at 60 plus yards. It is one thing to load shells that you believe can kill birds at those distances however, how reliably do you kill them?
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