Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby z51 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:16 am

Bug Doc wrote:
z51 wrote:
The only people I see using 10 gauges around here are out of state skybusters in public hunting grounds. And that's the Gods truth.
If you know how to find where the birds are using, set up correctly, and can call, a 10 gauge is totally unnecessary.


If one is blessed to live in a state with an overabundance of birds and plenty of options for hunting locations, then this might be true. However, others of us are more limited in our choices. I was on a recent hunt where the local geese were all feeding in fields that were either leased or off-limits to hunting. We tried to "run traffic", but the wary late-season birds were not responding. We noted, however, that the birds were flying low over a particular treeline, so we repositioned for a pass shoot. With ranges between 40-60 yards I was glad I had TSS along, but if I had been shooting steel I would have welcomed a big 10 gauge.

Don't be so quick to judge others until you've walked a mile in their shoes.


Doc, read my quoted post at the top of the previous page. I use my 12 with BB' s to do exactly the same thing at the same ranges on geese on private land. I don't use a 10 anymore to do it. I owned a BPS 10 for twenty years and sold it last year. Based on my in field experience, not bias, I just didn't need it. This is an opinion forum and that's my opinion. This thread is not about the big ten anyway, but the 10 gauge nuts have taken it over and are as usual puffing up the 10 and dissing the big twelve.

I don't care what they shoot but most 10 shooters I see take ridiculous shots and ruin it for everyone trying to work ducks properly into the timber.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:01 am

I would like to propose something:
Create a NEW 11 ga, this would have a 10 bore and a 12 ga chamber and factory ammo would only use TSS in 2-1/2" hulls.
Almost had this in the first 12 ga 3-1/2" BPS's which used the 10 ga frame etc, not sure about the bore at this point but 10gaOkie had/has one I believe and could give us the bore dimension.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby z51 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:33 am

Hey, go for it, the more the merrier. I believe the 11 bore has been done, at least in the old trade guns. I bet you could find one. It would be a muzzleloader but tss should be good there just cut some wads and rock on. Mossy 935 has a 10 bore, more or less.
The tin hats would still bitch about the pressure though. They think 15,000 psi will destroy modern firearms.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:43 am

z51 wrote:Hey, go for it, the more the merrier. I believe the 11 bore has been done, at least in the old trade guns. I bet you could find one. It would be a muzzleloader but tss should be good there just cut some wads and rock on. Mossy 935 has a 10 bore, more or less.
The tin hats would still bitch about the pressure though. They think 15,000 psi will destroy modern firearms.


Hey we could overbore the 10 to make it a 9 bore too!
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby z51 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:52 am

lostknife4 wrote:
z51 wrote:Hey, go for it, the more the merrier. I believe the 11 bore has been done, at least in the old trade guns. I bet you could find one. It would be a muzzleloader but tss should be good there just cut some wads and rock on. Mossy 935 has a 10 bore, more or less.
The tin hats would still bitch about the pressure though. They think 15,000 psi will destroy modern firearms.


Hey we could overbore the 10 to make it a 9 bore too!
Lost


I am biased against uneven numbers. Let's make it an 8 bore that's been done before so maybe there is still someone alive who has shot one. He'll, he's probably on this forum. :lol3:
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:50 am

In the over bore 12's there are only a few shotcups that will work satisfactorily, 8 bore shotcups are available but how do you get an 8 bore shotcup in a 12 or 10 hull?. Using a 10 bore hopefully there would be some existing shotcups that would obturate satisfactorily in a 9 bore barrel as happens with the Mossy X35's 12 to 10 expansion.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby BT Justice » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:58 am

lostknife4 wrote:In the over bore 12's there are only a few shotcups that will work satisfactorily, 8 bore shotcups are available but how do you get an 8 bore shotcup in a 12 or 10 hull?. Using a 10 bore hopefully there would be some existing shotcups that would obturate satisfactorily in a 9 bore barrel as happens with the Mossy X35's 12 to 10 expansion.
Lost

The only problem being anything larger than a 10 ga is not legal to hunt with in most places here in the states, some states I've heard have no restrictions on bore size for Turkey hunting but waterfowl is definitely out of the question.

Another one of those why and what difference does it make questions in my mind. Kind of the 3 shot plug restriction scenario, what difference does it make if you can only shoot X amount of birds anyway.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:37 am

BT Justice wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:In the over bore 12's there are only a few shotcups that will work satisfactorily, 8 bore shotcups are available but how do you get an 8 bore shotcup in a 12 or 10 hull?. Using a 10 bore hopefully there would be some existing shotcups that would obturate satisfactorily in a 9 bore barrel as happens with the Mossy X35's 12 to 10 expansion.
Lost

The only problem being anything larger than a 10 ga is not legal to hunt with in most places here in the states, some states I've heard have no restrictions on bore size for Turkey hunting but waterfowl is definitely out of the question.

Another one of those why and what difference does it make questions in my mind. Kind of the 3 shot plug restriction scenario, what difference does it make if you can only shoot X amount of birds anyway.


Good observation and comment BT !!!!!
My parody was to those who advocate the great things that happen when using over bore guns, especially those X35 Mossy guys. LOL. Does an 10 bore barrel with a 12 ga chamber make this a 10 ga gun? By convention about ga being defined by lead balls in the barrel irrespective of the hull ga markings????????????? There are lots of these inconsistencies in Brass Rifle Cartridges......
I agree with you on the 3 shot restriction as well but so do the ammo manufacturers who would sell a lot more ammo to those guys that fire 3 shots at each bird they pull on whether it is killed dead in the air with the first or second shot doesn't seem to matter they just empty the gun on that one particular bird.............
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:49 am

z51 wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
z51 wrote:Hey, go for it, the more the merrier. I believe the 11 bore has been done, at least in the old trade guns. I bet you could find one. It would be a muzzleloader but tss should be good there just cut some wads and rock on. Mossy 935 has a 10 bore, more or less.
The tin hats would still bitch about the pressure though. They think 15,000 psi will destroy modern firearms.


Hey we could overbore the 10 to make it a 9 bore too!
Lost


I am biased against uneven numbers. Let's make it an 8 bore that's been done before so maybe there is still someone alive who has shot one. He'll, he's probably on this forum. :lol3:


This is an 8 ga slug vs a 3-1/2" 10 ga. We have some pretty big animals here and the 8 is the ticket for them, pitty we too can't use it for waterfowl.
Lost

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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby solway gunner » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:37 pm

z51 wrote:
solway gunner wrote:[quote="z51"

If you really know how to hunt waterfowl you need a 10 gauge like you need another hole in your head. ( All the guys in tin foil hats and conspiracy theories included).



Another sweeping statement full of nonsense and simply your own misguided opinion, based on your hunting experience over your hunting ground giving your own preconception of how everyone else should hunt /shoot waterfowl just because you say so.
Equates to stating anything larger than a .410 is unnecessary whilst hunting waterfowl.



Your statement about the .410 is, of course, asinine.
The only people I see using 10 gauges around here are out of state skybusters in public hunting grounds. And that's the Gods truth.
If you know how to find where the birds are using, set up correctly, and can call, a 10 gauge is totally unnecessary.

But like I said in a previous post I will defend your right to use one.[/quote]

I hear you, but coastal fowling can be very challenging physically as well as damned hard work getting under birds which are in range. I try to take my 12ga whenever i can,but we need inclement weather to stand a real chance with a 12ga for geese in a morning,that or early season-duck are no problem-anytime.We pass shoot 99.9% of every morning and because our geese roost out on mudflats as far as the tide leaves them which on calm tides they can be left often literaly more than a couple of miles back. By the time they reach the marsh edge you need all the help you can muster-often totaly out of range.Sure a 10ga isnt the magic tool in the box for killing geese,in fact can be more of a damned hindrance than a help sometimes.Ive friends who shoot their share of geese every season with 3.5"or 3"12ga and why the hell shouldnt they-its where and how you put the shot that truly counts,but horses for courses when it boils down to delivering bird killing payloads of large steel for passing geese the magnum 10ga has no equal.Some folk try it and loath it ,others including myself love it and its versatility with steel shot,but whatever you shoot best with you use the most.
Heres what the 10ga does best ,from our last morning feb20th..
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby baltz526 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:02 pm

Looks exactly like a day hunting the high desert marsh of oregon
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby BT Justice » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:54 am

lostknife4 wrote:
z51 wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
z51 wrote:Hey, go for it, the more the merrier. I believe the 11 bore has been done, at least in the old trade guns. I bet you could find one. It would be a muzzleloader but tss should be good there just cut some wads and rock on. Mossy 935 has a 10 bore, more or less.
The tin hats would still bitch about the pressure though. They think 15,000 psi will destroy modern firearms.


Hey we could overbore the 10 to make it a 9 bore too!
Lost


I am biased against uneven numbers. Let's make it an 8 bore that's been done before so maybe there is still someone alive who has shot one. He'll, he's probably on this forum. :lol3:


This is an 8 ga slug vs a 3-1/2" 10 ga. We have some pretty big animals here and the 8 is the ticket for them, pitty we too can't use it for waterfowl.
Lost
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Being that I have never messed with the 8 ga, do you have to resize the brass down quite a bit on those 8 ga industrial hulls?
I had heard it was a bit of a pain because of that ring on the brass to get them resized correctly.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby z51 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:19 am

lostknife4 wrote:
z51 wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
z51 wrote:Hey, go for it, the more the merrier. I believe the 11 bore has been done, at least in the old trade guns. I bet you could find one. It would be a muzzleloader but tss should be good there just cut some wads and rock on. Mossy 935 has a 10 bore, more or less.
The tin hats would still bitch about the pressure though. They think 15,000 psi will destroy modern firearms.


Hey we could overbore the 10 to make it a 9 bore too!
Lost


I am biased against uneven numbers. Let's make it an 8 bore that's been done before so maybe there is still someone alive who has shot one. He'll, he's probably on this forum. :lol3:


This is an 8 ga slug vs a 3-1/2" 10 ga. We have some pretty big animals here and the 8 is the ticket for them, pitty we too can't use it for waterfowl.
Lost


Image

Image


That's cool to see one still in use. What animal is so big a twelve gauge slug or sabot can't stop it. I've been to Africa twice and 12 gauge doubles are all they can use in most places. Can't imagine a 12 can't kill a moose or bear. It's got to be fun to play with though. (But not for long). :help:
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby rem1100pro » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:32 pm

The 3.5 12 is more effective at ranges outside the decoys. The pattern density is higher so kills should increase just by the odds. I have hunted with both 10 gauge (Browning Gold) and 12 gauge in both 3 and 3.5 (Rem 1100, Rem VersaMax, Benelli SBE II,Beretta A400, Winchester SX3, Rem 870, and Browning Gold and BPS) and they all work just fine but have their distinct advantages. They can all be made to pattern properly with the correct loads.

The 3.5 12 can be a problem with recoil if you hunt out of a boat and shoot odd angles. Any of the 12 autos that are gas or inertia that weigh around 7 pounds are a problem with recoil for this type of hunting. If you are getting beat up by recoil, most will start to flinch and I don't care how effective the shell you are going to bag and kill less birds.

The 10 gauge is heavy enough to eliminate the recoil issue but is tougher to use in a boat and the shells are very expensive if you do not have the ability to reload. The best guns for shooting 3.5 12s are the Rem VM and the Beretta since they are gas operated and weigh more than the other guns. I personally like the Rem VM better than the Beretta but I grew up shooting Rem 1100s so the VM fits me better. I also think the VM kicks slightly less (maybe because it is slightly heavier) but that is again my opinion.

I hunt with a lot of different hunters and most stay away from 3.5 12s because they find they get beat up on a good day's shooting. You will always shoot better with a gun and shell you feel more comfortable with when shooting.

I personally shoot 3.5s at longer ranges and find they work far better than 3s. I shoot a lot of diver ducks and the 3.5s are more effective for me when taking any cripples that occur.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby rainingmallards » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:25 am

I personally like using a 3" 12 gauge and seem to be able to make any shot necessary
with it...of course, that is simply a personal opinion
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:04 am

I would like to suggest that all you guys using TSS stop using it because my distributor can't keep up with the demand and I'm having a hard job to get it, so if you just stop buying it, albeit the best alloy yet for range and lethality, then I will be able to get some more and load up some ammo for this years fall season.
Thank you for your support,
Lost
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby Solwaycalls » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:31 am

8 gauge brass will do it.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby Solwaycalls » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:36 am

In this baby
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby Solwaycalls » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:43 am

Sorry file was to big hope this works.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby solway gunner » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:33 pm

Where did you steal that from ?
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:32 pm

He's on the English side of the Firth Kevin, gotta watch those guys............... Probably got it from a Scotchman as payment for land rental or something.... LOL
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby solway gunner » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:37 pm

Towards the end of this last season, id heard them shooting for 2weeks solid every morning when our side was quiet-"buy a permit and come on over" came the cry..so i did ...only to find theyd done em all..ohh what a surprise :rolleyes: i wasnt expecting that.. :yes:
More like Eddie robbed that heirloom from some old widow.. "its not worth much-its very old ..." :wink:
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby Solwaycalls » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:07 am

its not worth much-its very old ..."

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Buy all the SP10s in Scotland Kev with this.
We only had the geese you had scared over the Border with your pop guns and duff loads, good bird scarers though.
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Re: Is a 3-1/2-Inch 12-Gauge More Effective?

Postby solway gunner » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:17 am

:lol3:
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