Holy grail and rio primers

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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby baltz526 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:49 am

Jon Bergren wrote:
baltz526 wrote:Who do I believe? Alliant, Lyman, Hodgdon. BP most of the time. I use Rio primers in all Rio hulls, They fit. I use Rio primers in Cheddite hulls where fed209A are called for. I use Rio primers as a substitute for Winchester 209 in Winchester hulls. Someday I'll find some Winchester 209 on a shelf, Maybe.


If you use Rio Primers for Cheddite primers in Lightning Steel 2 recipe #36 and happen to use a Rio hull with a cracked basewad I guarantee that you will blow up your shotgun. Ned S who has seen two such guns.
Funny you should mention this. If you load LS36 with 32gr of steel and a Rio209, I get 1560fps. And great patterns with #3 steel. Another reason to be skeptical of published data. Why waste 5.5gr of steel powder and run max pressure?
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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby goosepit2007 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:40 pm

3200 man wrote:Why not use Rio hulls , as they are very plentiful in my area ? They hold a full 1 1/8 oz of shot and crimp very nicely and
while I use them as pitch loads , the Gaep tool makes them very efficient and consistent with the Rio primer !


there is nothing wrong with rio hulls, i have found if you nock the primer out without sizing with the press, then take hull over to the mec super sizer. you can use win 209 primers ect without them backing out. they are snugg fit. after doing test for ned, loaded them up for the second reload and then the crimp did split down some of the folds so they are right on with cheddite hulls in that aspect. shot to shot consistancy was very close(deviation), with vp60 wads and bnp32 wads.

The big kicker is that you can get them for free at perty much all trap ranges!!!

the results of wad swap for ned in ls2 36 manual with vp60 wads in 835/935 shotguns. then i shot win sx2 for comparison. results posted in link below. 600 jr press no gaep tool or rcbs taper die.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=425921
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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby BT Justice » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:51 am

3200 man wrote:Why not use Rio hulls , as they are very plentiful in my area ? They hold a full 1 1/8 oz of shot and crimp very nicely and
while I use them as pitch loads , the Gaep tool makes them very efficient and consistent with the Rio primer !

I use a lot of the Euro hulls for lead loads but not for steel.
You guys can do what you want but keep in mind that there is little to no load data for a lot of these hulls and primers with steel loads. First rule is to have as many references as you can and cross reference as many data sources as you can especially if your trying to substitute components, which is not a good idea if your not really sure of what the outcome is going to be in the first place.
I think a lot of you are starting to think steel is just as easy to load and as forgiving as lead is, but as I always say it's your guns and your body parts so have at it. .... :fingerhead:
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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby cannon » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:37 am

BT Justice wrote:
3200 man wrote:Why not use Rio hulls , as they are very plentiful in my area ? They hold a full 1 1/8 oz of shot and crimp very nicely and
while I use them as pitch loads , the Gaep tool makes them very efficient and consistent with the Rio primer !

I use a lot of the Euro hulls for lead loads but not for steel.
You guys can do what you want but keep in mind that there is little to no load data for a lot of these hulls and primers with steel loads. First rule is to have as many references as you can and cross reference as many data sources as you can especially if your trying to substitute components, which is not a good idea if your not really sure of what the outcome is going to be in the first place.
I think a lot of you are starting to think steel is just as easy to load and as forgiving as lead is, but as I always say it's your guns and your body parts so have at it. .... :fingerhead:


I'm never afraid of subbing straight-wall hulls in 2.75", as capacity is the controlling factor on generated pressure 99% of the time. Primer swaps, on the other hand, scare me.
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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby lostknife4 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:06 am

Here's another reference for primer substitution:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=236969&p=2219729&hilit=Primers+revisited#p2219729

copied and pasted from the above:

"Re: Cheddite 209 Primers revisited.... CX????

Postby kenner » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:27 pm
So, here's what Ballistic Products says about one of its primed, Cheddite hulls:

"Contains a Cheddite 209 primer (Cheddite CX2000).

Cheddite Multi-Hulls' 209 primer is comparable (i.e. produces inconsequential differences) with Nobel Sport 209, Winchester 209, and CCI 209. Any of the above mentioned primers may be used where the MH209 primer designation is shown.""


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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:52 am

There is another article, actually a primer test , that I can't seem to locate that clearly shows primer substitutions that have dome just the opposite of what was required and clearly not expected.
I'll find it someday soon I hope but my point is that things do not always go in the direction we want them to.....
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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby inthebox30lbs » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:58 pm

Wow didn't expect this post to see this much action. The reason I asked the original question about the rio primers was to see if patterns were adversely affected by changing to the rio 209. It had nothing to due with psi or fluctuations/consistency. I like rio primers and never had an issue with them. I would even go on a limb and say with Chris holy grail you would be safe and well with in spec. With any primer. But as a lot of you know patterns can and will be affected. With 32 grains of steel and 475 grains of shot I'll shoot any primer through that load and will be far from a non safe load, I bet it wouldn't even touch 10000 psi. I will load some of the modified grail with rios and let you all know how they look on paper
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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby 3200 man » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:04 pm

That a Boy Scott !

I have shot the same load in the RIO's Blue hull and did quite well with it , on the patterning board .
I also stopped at 32.5 grs of A steel because , it sounded like I dropped my gun on Concrete , when I shot it !

I do like those Rio's loaded with 1's and plan on working up a load of Airgun BB's this summer .

Thanks for your testing of this load

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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby UmatillaJeff » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:08 pm

C M Wings wrote:What Lost said X2000000.

The cheapest part of the equation if the primer - use the one specified.

Joe


That is the truth of the matter in a nutshell and I couldn't agree more. Just use the primer in the manual. Jeff
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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:18 pm

Scott
Since the hg load is 34 gr with the Ched primer. I too would feel safe with 32gr using the Rio. I assume you are having to drop back a few pellets to get fit of the components with the Rio hull? I know that I had to but I am not really fond of the Rio hull even though they are easy to get. In just a short time, I scrambled up a couple thousand Ched hulls from my local range for free, so I said why should I settle for using the Rios. For me the ched is a much better hull.

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Re: Holy grail and rio primers

Postby baltz526 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:10 pm

This is the load I use in the Green high brass Rio hulls. Rio 209, 32gr Steel, LBC43, 90 - .171 copper plated B. It runs 1470-1500fps. I use it out of the boat on big water over the decoys. Shots can be long with wind. 90 B is what fits. 114 #1 also fit and a full 1 1/8oz of #3 fit. With #2 I'll guess it would be 6-8 pellets short of a full 1 1/8oz.
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