Hevi metal

Interact with others on shot gun shells, reloading, ballistics, chokes, or anything that has to do with your shooting.

Moderators: donell67, pennsyltucky, Ohio Wildfowler, NV Guide

Re: Hevi metal

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:41 pm

On the X wrote:
Has nothing to do with the type of metal the little BBs are that are flying out of your shotgun.


How about aluminum shot SS ? No wait, it would have to be the size of marbles.

You're missing the point. Properly patterned steel of an adequate shot size is plenty effective out to at least 50 yards. In a 10ga, even farther than that. If you're having to shoot past 50 yards regularly, you are doing something wrong and there's a 90%+ chance that distance is beyond your shooting skills.
Steel alone does not result in cripples, shooting beyond the effective range of the pattern or energy of the load (which is beyond 50yds for #1s, which is WELL beyond the skill level of the vast majority of hunters), or shooting inaccurately is what results in cripples.
You probably already knew I meant that, just chose to process what you wanted to hear in order to prolong the argument.
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3862
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso


Re: Hevi metal

Postby Frank Lopez » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:10 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:...there's a 90%+ chance that distance is beyond your shooting skills.


I don't know that I'd go that far. But I would say that there's a BETTER than 90% chance that 50 yards is beyond the capability of his chosen load (HeviMetal)

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
User avatar
Frank Lopez
hunter
 
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:34 pm
Location: Long Island New York

Re: Hevi metal

Postby On the X » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:36 pm

If I missed your point, then present it better in the future, steel shot is by far not the ideal shot material. You're claim is that material is irrelevant, according to what you said which I quoted. You obviously picked and chose the the posts you wanted to read without reading them all. Had you, you would have seen my post on my habits of patterning. Not knowing your age, I'm still betting that I've been patterning loads longer than you've been alive. Over the years of the requirement to use nontox shot, ducks and geese have been and will continue to be hit solid with steel only to require follow up shots because of steel's lacking as an ideal shot material. Anyone here who claims different is full of it and they know it. As far as your advise on shooting at 50 yards plus....don't worry Son, I've got that covered too.
On the X
hunter
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:52 pm

On the X wrote:I'm still betting that I've been patterning loads longer than you've been alive.

In case you haven't noticed, I don't give a :censored:.
As far as your advise on shooting at 50 yards plus....don't worry Son, I've got that covered too.

Oh I'm sure you do. Just like how everyone on here claims to be at least 6'2" 200lbs+.
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3862
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Hevi metal

Postby On the X » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:15 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
On the X wrote:I'm still betting that I've been patterning loads longer than you've been alive.

In case you haven't noticed, I don't give a :censored:.
As far as your advise on shooting at 50 yards plus....don't worry Son, I've got that covered too.

Oh I'm sure you do. Just like how everyone on here claims to be at least 6'2" 200lbs+.

Well SS, until now you haven't given an indication on whether you give a :censored: or not, so no, I had not noticed. As far as my claim to having 50 yard shooting covered, well that's an easy one, I rarely feel the need to take those shots. It's all good though SS, as you get older and mature you may be able to actually debate without getting pissed off. Thinking out the topic before commenting will also help your argument.
On the X
hunter
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:29 pm

On the X wrote:
shoveler_shooter wrote:
On the X wrote:I'm still betting that I've been patterning loads longer than you've been alive.

In case you haven't noticed, I don't give a :censored:.
As far as your advise on shooting at 50 yards plus....don't worry Son, I've got that covered too.

Oh I'm sure you do. Just like how everyone on here claims to be at least 6'2" 200lbs+.

Well SS, until now you haven't given an indication on whether you give a :censored: or not, so no, I had not noticed. As far as my claim to having 50 yard shooting covered, well that's an easy one, I rarely feel the need to take those shots. It's all good though SS, as you get older and mature you may be able to actually debate without getting pissed off. Thinking out the topic before commenting will also help your argument.

:lol:
You have the nerve to say "as you get older and mature", while you have been acting like a conceited ass from the get go? I think it would be wise to take your own advice before giving it to others, and that also applies to your last sentence.

I quoted exactly what I was replying to in my first post, but all you have done is try to red herring/ad hominem the discussion to avoid acknowledging that you made a very broad statement that is incorrect. Everyone agrees that the other metals are superior to steel, HOWEVER, since properly patterned and sized steel is effective out to 50ish yards with a 12ga, and it has been proven that 50yds is well beyond the skill level of the vast majority of hunters (I can get this info from a different subforum if I have to), there is minimal to no advantage to using a denser metal unless it is a small bore shotgun or you have Tom Knapp-like shooting skills.

I have stated the above paragraph 3 times now, in 3 different ways, in more detail each time, to where a 4 year old could probably understand by now. I don't understand why it is so difficult to comprehend that, and this is the last time I am stating it.
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3862
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Hevi metal

Postby On the X » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:46 pm

Handloads, RSI recipe #75 and the "old" Alliant 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz. load with both using the Remington Nitro hull(s) with the former motoring at 1619FPS/MV & latter at 1642FPS/MV.

If I didn't handload, the Kent Fasteel and/or Winchester Expert in 2 3/4", 1 1/16 oz. factory would be next on the list.


Yuchi, your load sounds fine and dandy, and I'm sure it works for you and you're satisfied with it, But I'm sure it too has it's flaws, but I would never find the need to run it down because there would be no point in doing so.
On the X
hunter
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby Yuchi1 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:54 pm

On the X wrote:
Handloads, RSI recipe #75 and the "old" Alliant 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz. load with both using the Remington Nitro hull(s) with the former motoring at 1619FPS/MV & latter at 1642FPS/MV.

If I didn't handload, the Kent Fasteel and/or Winchester Expert in 2 3/4", 1 1/16 oz. factory would be next on the list.


Yuchi, your load sounds fine and dandy, and I'm sure it works for you and you're satisfied with it, But I'm sure it too has it's flaws, but I would never find the need to run it down because there would be no point in doing so.


You couldn't legitimately "run" those loads down, unless you'd tried them.

One "flaw" they do not have is the ability to kill birds at 30 yards and kill birds at 50+ yards.

BTW, am not a EMI hater however, what I do hold in contempt is Pro Staffers (like you) coming on here with their amen corner bovine caca. While I realize you feel compelled to keep the shill post counts up (so y'all can stay on the EMI teat) it would be downright neighborly of y'all to simply go elsewhere as far too many of the posters here know what your product du jour really is and what you all, really are.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1626
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Hevi metal

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:15 am

Amen to that LOL, St. Patrick excluded.
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4442
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: Hevi metal

Postby zpstl321 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:21 am

Yuchi1 wrote:Handloads, RSI recipe #75 and the "old" Alliant 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz. load with both using the Remington Nitro hull(s) with the former motoring at 1619FPS/MV & latter at 1642FPS/MV.

If I didn't handload, the Kent Fasteel and/or Winchester Expert in 2 3/4", 1 1/16 oz. factory would be next on the list.


That right there sounds like a heck of a load to me if it patterns well in your guns. There really is no reason to use anything else if you like the way it performs. Using soft steel in that load would darn near make it perfect.

I'd pick the Xpert load over the Kent's if I had to choose between the two.
zpstl321
hunter
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:17 am

Re: Hevi metal

Postby zpstl321 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:27 am

Another short pattering video that is pretty much standard.

2 of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMPhK04UWCc

3 of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86FJLMO7xwM
zpstl321
hunter
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:17 am

Re: Hevi metal

Postby gride830 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:52 pm

It's amazing to see where these HM post always go.....I can't believe that people actually waste their time throwing negative opinions to the wind of everyone else EVERY time HM is mentioned. Like you will change their minds.

SIMPLE THINGS FOR SIMPLE MINDS

If people think its good then they will shoot it.
gride830
hunter
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:30 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby Yuchi1 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:55 pm

gride830 wrote:It's amazing to see where these HM post always go.....I can't believe that people actually waste their time throwing negative opinions to the wind of everyone else EVERY time HM is mentioned. Like you will change their minds.

SIMPLE THINGS FOR SIMPLE MINDS

If simple minded people think its good then they will shoot it.


FIFY
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1626
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Hevi metal

Postby nmbrinkman » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:45 am

Yuchi1 wrote:
gride830 wrote:It's amazing to see where these HM post always go.....I can't believe that people actually waste their time throwing negative opinions to the wind of everyone else EVERY time HM is mentioned. Like you will change their minds.

SIMPLE THINGS FOR SIMPLE MINDS

If simple minded people think its good then they will shoot it.


FIFY


I compare it to fishing. You fish with gear you have confidence in. Some people like braided line with fluorocarbon leader. Some are old school and prefer straight 100% monofilament. Some like new small reels with big drags. Some like their old school penn. Anchovies vs sardines. This jig over that jig. Circle hooks. Ringed hooks. It's all about what YOU have caught fish on and feel comfortable using. I've never had a FTF or FTE with HM on the handful of occasions I've shot it and I just happened to have had some of my best days with it. May of had little to do with the shell but I'm comfortable with it. Dissect that however you want.
Last edited by nmbrinkman on Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
nmbrinkman
hunter
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:50 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby zpstl321 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:38 am

I find it to be more like religious wars in that people believe other should be persecuted if they don't believe what they believe. Too, I find it interesting how insecure people are about their selections. If a person states they haven't had good results with another's preferred load they want to go all jihad on their butt. :)

Bottom line is if whatever you are using works for you then you really shouldn't care what anyone else believes. It doesn't hurt to keep up to date and learn about new technology trying to find loads that work better, but if you're not having issues there really isn't a need to change. You've found something that works with your style of hunting. If it doesn't work for someone else's style then so what?
zpstl321
hunter
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:17 am

Re: Hevi metal

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:28 pm

There's absolutely nothing wrong with expressing opinions and findings about your favorite shotshell, etc.

The problem occurs when EMI Pro Staffers come on here (and a myriad of other sites as well) and pimp product w/o disclosing their relationship with the company. Creates kind of a used car salesman type environment.

Couple that with EMI's history of...well, (IMO) somewhat less than full disclosure and the pimps doing what pimps do, sets up the perfect storm to get their butts roasted.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1626
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Hevi metal

Postby QuackWhacker65 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:42 pm

zpstl321 wrote:I find it to be more like religious wars in that people believe other should be persecuted if they don't believe what they believe. Too, I find it interesting how insecure people are about their selections. If a person states they haven't had good results with another's preferred load they want to go all jihad on their butt. :)

Bottom line is if whatever you are using works for you then you really shouldn't care what anyone else believes. It doesn't hurt to keep up to date and learn about new technology trying to find loads that work better, but if you're not having issues there really isn't a need to change. You've found something that works with your style of hunting. If it doesn't work for someone else's style then so what?



:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: This coming from you is funny being that everytime HM is ever mentioned or someone liking this shell and having good luck with it or any EMI product for that matter you blow up the thread with nothing but negative comments :fingerpt: :fingerpt:
QuackWhacker65
hunter
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby On the X » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:47 pm

Yuchi, you still thinking I'm a prostaffer ain't ya?
On the X
hunter
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby On the X » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:50 pm

QuackWhacker65 wrote:
zpstl321 wrote:I find it to be more like religious wars in that people believe other should be persecuted if they don't believe what they believe. Too, I find it interesting how insecure people are about their selections. If a person states they haven't had good results with another's preferred load they want to go all jihad on their butt. :)

Bottom line is if whatever you are using works for you then you really shouldn't care what anyone else believes. It doesn't hurt to keep up to date and learn about new technology trying to find loads that work better, but if you're not having issues there really isn't a need to change. You've found something that works with your style of hunting. If it doesn't work for someone else's style then so what?



:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: This coming from you is funny being that everytime HM is ever mentioned or someone liking this shell and having good luck with it or any EMI product for that matter you blow up the thread with nothing but negative comments :fingerpt: :fingerpt:

He's correct but assbackwards, as if it's been the HM users dishing out all the negatives.
On the X
hunter
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby QuackWhacker65 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:17 pm

On the X wrote:
QuackWhacker65 wrote:
zpstl321 wrote:I find it to be more like religious wars in that people believe other should be persecuted if they don't believe what they believe. Too, I find it interesting how insecure people are about their selections. If a person states they haven't had good results with another's preferred load they want to go all jihad on their butt. :)

Bottom line is if whatever you are using works for you then you really shouldn't care what anyone else believes. It doesn't hurt to keep up to date and learn about new technology trying to find loads that work better, but if you're not having issues there really isn't a need to change. You've found something that works with your style of hunting. If it doesn't work for someone else's style then so what?



:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: This coming from you is funny being that everytime HM is ever mentioned or someone liking this shell and having good luck with it or any EMI product for that matter you blow up the thread with nothing but negative comments :fingerpt: :fingerpt:

He's correct but assbackwards, as if it's been the HM users dishing out all the negatives.


Haha exactly. the only thing he has ever had to say is negative and a bunch of hearsay. that whole comment was about a$$backwards from what he actually does
QuackWhacker65
hunter
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Hevi metal

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:14 pm

On the X wrote:Yuchi, you still thinking I'm a prostaffer ain't ya?


No sir, you are good people and I apologize for wrongly inferring (Pro Staffer) such.

Shaun Patrick is the only one that openly wears his gun outside his pants (a take from Pancho & Lefty) and IMO, he is universally respected for his forthrightness.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1626
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Hevi metal

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:23 am

X2
Lost
"It's not the game but the chase ~ not the trophy but the race !" from my Dad, many years ago.
User avatar
lostknife4
hunter
 
Posts: 4442
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Eastern Canada

Re: Hevi metal

Postby zpstl321 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:46 am

I still do not have a problem with people buying or using EMI products so long as they know what they are getting. If EMI truthfully advertised their products I wouldn't have a problem with them as a company.
Last edited by zpstl321 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
zpstl321
hunter
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:17 am

Re: Hevi metal

Postby aclumpkin » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:48 am

zpstl321 wrote:Another short pattering video that is pretty much standard.

2 of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMPhK04UWCc

3 of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86FJLMO7xwM

I agree pretty much standard, but hopefully that means you like my work :smile:

Just my $0.02 on this topic. I have posted MANY patterning pics on this site for my HM patterns using 5 different chokes at different distances. I just couldn't get HM to pattern worth a darn at all (no better than about 55% patterns at 40 yards). I then tried it in the field to make sure (and because I had almost a box left) and I ended up crippling a few ducks. So for me, the field test proved the pattern test.

Anyway, I know a few that shoot it and like it. I also know a few that tried it and had the same experiences I had. My recommendation: buy a box or two and try it yourself on the patterning board and in the field. For what it's worth, my old Beretta LOVED BC #2's while my new A400 Beretta Xtreme LOVES Kent Fasteel #1's. I kill ducks well with both guns and their respective shells. So try it out and see what you get.
Some people just need a high-five.
In the face.
With a chair.
User avatar
aclumpkin
hunter
 
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Hevi metal

Postby QuackWhacker65 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:04 am

zpstl321 wrote:I simply pointed out their products are not what people believe them to be and referenced information on their website. I also pointed out that Shaun isn't on the up and up because he has had this knowledge for years and continued to act like he did know about it. He even out right called me a lair so I copied and pasted the info from the EMI Hevi website, which I shared with him in the past. Shaun is just a little smarter at fooling people than most of their hired guns.

That said, I still do not have a problem with people buying or using EMI products so long as they know what they are getting. If EMI truthfully advertised their products and quit pulling the product bait and switch I wouldn't have a problem with them as a company. either way I highly doubt we'll have to worry about it much longer.


How has SPatrick not ever been on the up and up?? He always one of the most upfront people on here. He is also one of the few on here to actually give his real name while you hide behind your computer screen haha. He probably called you a liar for good reason. Like you claiming you knew a staffer that said HM was soo bad he was selling his free cases on eBay. You can't even sell shells on eBay. I would use your copy and paste trick but ever time you comment to somebody about anything you delete your comments. You yourself just said if someone is happy with a load then it shouldn't matter to anyone else. But as soon someone is happy shooting HM here you come blasting a way with your negative comments again :no:
QuackWhacker65
hunter
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:18 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Shotshell, Reloading, Ballistics, & Chokes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BT Justice and 14 guests

cron