Factory Load suggestions long range doves

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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby Honkerblaster » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:03 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
Jwrong83 wrote:Perhaps the reason I can kill doves consistently at 60 yards is because I practice 2-3 times a week 100 rounds per session year round. I know my gun and I know how it shoots, Instead of buying the latest gear, motion decoys, and duck comander calls. My group and I regularly practice 70 yd clay shots. Hitting them at 70 yds isn't the problem but #8 lead shot only knocks feathers.

This seems to just get more and more ridiculous as this forum ages. When you think you've read a tall tale, a few months later someone else comes on and one ups the previous one.
People on here used to claim to hit consistently past 40yds, then for a while it was 50+. Then, after there appeared to be quite a few people claiming to hit consistently past 50, it went up to 60. Now it looks like it has gone up to 70. :yes:

I will freely admit I can't hit consistently past 45-50ish. Every year on opening day of dove season, in a field with 50-100 shooters, I always end up being one of the top 5 best shots. And no one that is better than me is consistently knocking down doves past 50yds. My question is, where are all of these expert marksman on DHC making these claims? I sure haven't seen any my entire life.
Just like all these people on here claiming to be 6'2" and up. Apparently I live in a bubble with a bunch of short people and bad shots.

Another reason doves are tough to kill at extended range is due to pattern density and such a small vital zone, small target requires lots of small pellets, small pellets run out of quick... Making small target tough to consistently kill at extended range.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby shoveler_shooter » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:57 pm

Honkerblaster wrote:Another reason doves are tough to kill at extended range is due to pattern density and such a small vital zone, small target requires lots of small pellets, small pellets run out of quick... Making small target tough to consistently kill at extended range.

A goose is many, many times larger than a dove, which most people, including me probably, have no hope of hitting at 70yds. Although it is a big target and I'm sure there are a few people that could bounce pellets off one at that distance if the pattern stayed together. But a dove at 70yds....that is just ludicrous. Both equipment-wise and skillwise.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby Honkerblaster » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:06 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
Honkerblaster wrote:Another reason doves are tough to kill at extended range is due to pattern density and such a small vital zone, small target requires lots of small pellets, small pellets run out of quick... Making small target tough to consistently kill at extended range.

A goose is many, many times larger than a dove, which most people, including me probably, have no hope of hitting at 70yds. Although it is a big target and I'm sure there are a few people that could bounce pellets off one at that distance if the pattern stayed together. But a dove at 70yds....that is just ludicrous. Both equipment-wise and skillwise.

I agree, the vital zone is so tiny your pattern density has to be a wall to kill efficiently, which requires small pellets, small pellets run out of killing energy quick, I would deem the 70 yard dove to be next to impossible to kill consistently, even if you were a champion olympic shooter with the best components available, the pattern density with the pellet energy just isn't there in the current firearm and ammunition technology. The 70 yard goose is a different story, a properly set up gun with the shot that carries the energy to kill at the distance can be had, Quite easily at that. A goose has a lot more vital area exposed, which allows for less pattern density meaning you can use larger pellets that have the energy to kill at such range even with steel... But most guys don't understand you need the energy to kill along with the pattern density to be effective, which is why their 3" #2 in a modified choke can't kill efficiently past 40 yards, between lack of shooting, lack of energy and lack of pattern density it limits the gun and themselves to those ranges, which they should respect and know. Steel T shot coming out at 1450 has more then enough energy to kill a duck or goose at 70 yards, the next thing is finding an ammo and choke combination to hold together that far. My 10 gauge choke and ammo set up is consistently effective to the 60 yard mark with T steel. I'm going to do some more patterning with some hevi shot and different chokes to see if I can extended my current consistent range.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby mudpack » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:33 am

I'm thinking the issue here might be each person's definition of "killing doves consistently".
Jwrong might be consistently killing one dove out of every twenty at the ranges he's talking about.
A more experienced hunter might consider downing at minimum one out of three to be considered "consistent".

Regardless of the exact definition, I think we can mostly agree that killing a dove at 60-70 yards is more a matter of luck than a matter of load, choke, skill, etc. A dove at 60 yards is a pretty tiny target, and any pattern at that distance has a lot more air in it than shot. Shotguns DO have their limitations.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby Jmorris » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:44 am

Gotta suck shagging those birds, if you find them......................
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby BBK » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:40 am

I've seen areas where they fly in that 60-70yd range all day long. So I'm not going to try and sway you from shooting that far. Some can do it, some can't. I can't, so I don't try. With that being said, I have dropped a few pushing 60 yards DIA (dead in air) after someone had already blown the tail feathers out up the line. I was using 20 gauge 7/8 of #8 remington gunclubs with a full choke. I would not suggest that load if you are targeting doves at 60-70 though. If I HAD to shoot at that distance, then I'd probably grab a box of 12ga 1 1/8 #7.5 1330fps out of the basement and give it a try out of a full choke. Doves aren't hard to bring down if you can get some shot on them, its just going to be a matter of getting a pattern dense enough at that range to ensure a solid hit. #7.5's will have enough energy to kill them, no doubt.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby BBK » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:42 am

mudpack wrote:I'm thinking the issue here might be each person's definition of "killing doves consistently".
Jwrong might be consistently killing one dove out of every twenty at the ranges he's talking about.
A more experienced hunter might consider downing at minimum one out of three to be considered "consistent".

Regardless of the exact definition, I think we can mostly agree that killing a dove at 60-70 yards is more a matter of luck than a matter of load, choke, skill, etc. A dove at 60 yards is a pretty tiny target, and any pattern at that distance has a lot more air in it than shot. Shotguns DO have their limitations.


Hey Mud, hop on youtube and watch some of digweeds crow and pigeon videos. I know both are a bigger target than doves, but I think the point will still get through when he drops a pigeon from 90 yards with 1 1/4 #6's. I know in one video he went 10 for 10 with pigeons over 80 yards. Of course he is probably the best in the world IMO, but it just shows that skill does make a difference!
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:05 pm

BBK wrote: I would not suggest that load if you are targeting doves at 60-70 though. If I HAD to shoot at that distance, then I'd probably grab a box of 12ga 1 1/8 #7.5 1330fps out of the basement and give it a try out of a full choke.

The pattern is going to fall apart way before it reaches that distance, even with a full. I use that same load out of an IM extended choke in my BPS 12 and past about 50, maybe a bit closer than that, it falls apart.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:06 pm

BBK wrote:Hey Mud, hop on youtube and watch some of digweeds crow and pigeon videos. I know both are a bigger target than doves, but I think the point will still get through when he drops a pigeon from 90 yards with 1 1/4 #6's. I know in one video he went 10 for 10 with pigeons over 80 yards. Of course he is probably the best in the world IMO, but it just shows that skill does make a difference!

:rolleyes:
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby 3200 man » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:09 pm

Shoveler Shooter

I shoot long-range clay targets , these clays are 4.25 " dia , as most of them are flying more on edge than flat ,
we consistently break these at 65 yds and sometimes at 80 yds with 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2's and 6's !

I don't understand where you're coming from with your BPS and a full choke , apparently you haven't patterned your
gun and choke enough to find a load that will perform at this distance ?

We Have :thumbsup:
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:48 pm

3200 man wrote:Shoveler Shooter

I don't understand where you're coming from with your BPS and a full choke , apparently you haven't patterned your
gun and choke enough to find a load that will perform at this distance ?

We Have :thumbsup:

I guess not.

Whatever though. When people make claims about personal skills online, I usually don't respond, but this has just gone way over the top.
You do realize 80yds is 20yds short of an entire football field, not counting the endzones??

If you really are making those shots, which I doubt, I don't know what your current profession is but you need to be target shooting for a living.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby BBK » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:57 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
BBK wrote:Hey Mud, hop on youtube and watch some of digweeds crow and pigeon videos. I know both are a bigger target than doves, but I think the point will still get through when he drops a pigeon from 90 yards with 1 1/4 #6's. I know in one video he went 10 for 10 with pigeons over 80 yards. Of course he is probably the best in the world IMO, but it just shows that skill does make a difference!

:rolleyes:


He also holds the record for the longest clay target broken with factory shells. 130 yards.

Just trying to get the point across that there is a possibility of getting the choking correct to hit a dove at 70 yards consistently if you can do your part...

I would bet a 100 bill that Digweed can shoot clays at 80 yards and beat or tie your score from 40 yards. Watch him shoot, its amazing.
Why do I shoot 3.5" for geese? Because they don't make a 4" yet!
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby Honkerblaster » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:01 pm

BBK wrote:
shoveler_shooter wrote:
BBK wrote:Hey Mud, hop on youtube and watch some of digweeds crow and pigeon videos. I know both are a bigger target than doves, but I think the point will still get through when he drops a pigeon from 90 yards with 1 1/4 #6's. I know in one video he went 10 for 10 with pigeons over 80 yards. Of course he is probably the best in the world IMO, but it just shows that skill does make a difference!

:rolleyes:


He also holds the record for the longest clay target broken with factory shells. 130 yards.

Just trying to get the point across that there is a possibility of getting the choking correct to hit a dove at 70 yards consistently if you can do your part...

I would bet a 100 bill that Digweed can shoot clays at 80 yards and beat or tie your score from 40 yards. Watch him shoot, its amazing.

He is simply amazing!
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby 3200 man » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:54 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
3200 man wrote:Shoveler Shooter

I don't understand where you're coming from with your BPS and a full choke , apparently you haven't patterned your
gun and choke enough to find a load that will perform at this distance ?

We Have :thumbsup:

I guess not.

Whatever though. When people make claims about personal skills online, I usually don't respond, but this has just gone way over the top.
You do realize 80yds is 20yds short of an entire football field, not counting the endzones??

If you really are making those shots, which I doubt, I don't know what your current profession is but you need to be target shooting for a living.


You just need to go watch a money shoot in your area , as they normally start at the 27 to 30 yd line and move back !
In our area we end-up 40 yds from the trap house and if you can't consistently break targets 25 or 30 yds out of the house ,
someone inline 2 or 3 or 4 shots down will put you out ......SO ..... Don't Doubt what you see , OK !
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby Honkerblaster » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:22 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
3200 man wrote:Shoveler Shooter

I don't understand where you're coming from with your BPS and a full choke , apparently you haven't patterned your
gun and choke enough to find a load that will perform at this distance ?

We Have :thumbsup:

I guess not.

Whatever though. When people make claims about personal skills online, I usually don't respond, but this has just gone way over the top.
You do realize 80yds is 20yds short of an entire football field, not counting the endzones??

If you really are making those shots, which I doubt, I don't know what your current profession is but you need to be target shooting for a living.

I would hate to leave my profession... But maybe when I retire or get too old I will make the switch.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:09 pm

Honkerblaster wrote:
shoveler_shooter wrote:
3200 man wrote:Shoveler Shooter

I don't understand where you're coming from with your BPS and a full choke , apparently you haven't patterned your
gun and choke enough to find a load that will perform at this distance ?

We Have :thumbsup:

I guess not.

Whatever though. When people make claims about personal skills online, I usually don't respond, but this has just gone way over the top.
You do realize 80yds is 20yds short of an entire football field, not counting the endzones??

If you really are making those shots, which I doubt, I don't know what your current profession is but you need to be target shooting for a living.

I would hate to leave my profession... But maybe when I retire or get too old I will make the switch.

Well apparently there are a lot of top 1%ers that frequent this forum or something, because I have never in my life seen someone shoot close to what is being claimed in this thread, after seeing hundreds of people shoot.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby Honkerblaster » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:25 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
Honkerblaster wrote:
shoveler_shooter wrote:
3200 man wrote:Shoveler Shooter

I don't understand where you're coming from with your BPS and a full choke , apparently you haven't patterned your
gun and choke enough to find a load that will perform at this distance ?

We Have :thumbsup:

I guess not.

Whatever though. When people make claims about personal skills online, I usually don't respond, but this has just gone way over the top.
You do realize 80yds is 20yds short of an entire football field, not counting the endzones??

If you really are making those shots, which I doubt, I don't know what your current profession is but you need to be target shooting for a living.

I would hate to leave my profession... But maybe when I retire or get too old I will make the switch.

Well apparently there are a lot of top 1%ers that frequent this forum or something, because I have never in my life seen someone shoot close to what is being claimed in this thread, after seeing hundreds of people shoot.

I'm in the top 1% of certain other categories ;)
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby derbyacresbob » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:11 am

If you get a chance go to a big Sporting Clays shoot like a state shoot, zone shoot or the National Championship in San Antonio Texas. They have shooting games set up that have very long range targets to shoot at.

The games I have shot in normally had 5 pairs or report pairs of targets to shoot at and half of the entry fee went into a pot and the shooter that broke the most targets out of the 5 pairs for that day won the money.

If you watch some of the better Sporting Clays Shooters shoot these games you will see that shooters that know how to lead targets at long ranges can hit target at long ranges. There is no luck to it, they know how to put the pattern on the target.

When it takes a second or longer for the target to break after the shot was fired you know that the target is a long ways off.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby mudpack » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:20 am

3200 man wrote: You just need to go watch a money shoot in your area , as they normally start at the 27 to 30 yd line and move back ! In our area we end-up 40 yds from the trap house and if you can't consistently break targets 25 or 30 yds out of the house ,
someone inline 2 or 3 or 4 shots down will put you out ......SO ..... Don't Doubt what you see , OK !

Again, what is your definition of "consistently"? I also shoot the games, every Tuesday. There are approximately 15 guys that show up every week and we shoot for money. These guys are old timers who specialize in long distance clay targets and they are good. We often end up 60 yards from the trap house by the time we are down to 3 or 5 guys left. That means taking shots at 70 yards, give or take. The average is about one break in 4 or 5 shots at those distances. And this is using very special handloads, developed over the years just for this long-distance shooting.
I don't consider 1 in 5 as hitting consistently.

Besides, you and I are talking about long-distance shooting a clay targets. No ethics involved there. Shooting a live animals at 60 and 70 yards is a completely different subject.

derbyacresbob wrote: shooters that know how to lead targets at long ranges can hit target at long ranges. There is no luck to it,
Examine a couple of 60 yard patterns, then tell me there's no luck to it. :wink:
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby BBK » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:49 am

derbyacresbob wrote: shooters that know how to lead targets at long ranges can hit target at long ranges. There is no luck to it,
Examine a couple of 60 yard patterns, then tell me there's no luck to it. :wink:[/quote]


Darn do I wish I still had that picture of a pattern I saw 2 years ago. Was a 70 yard turkey pattern that covered the whole turkey target.. I THINK the load was an old buffered black winchester 6 shot. I know the choke was custom. With that pattern you could mutilate a dove at 70 yards... I wouldn't want to eat it!


I wouldn't want to be shooting turkey loads at dove, but again... its possible
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby shoveler_shooter » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:42 am

mudpack wrote:That means taking shots at 70 yards, give or take. The average is about one break in 4 or 5 shots at those distances. And this is using very special handloads, developed over the years just for this long-distance shooting.
I don't consider 1 in 5 as hitting consistently.

Now this, I can buy.
But consistently, I seriously doubt it unless you are maybe Tom Knapp caliber, with the perfect choke and handloaded ammo. Even then, like mud has said, where is the pattern that will hold together at that distance.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby 3200 man » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:23 am

mudpack wrote:
3200 man wrote: You just need to go watch a money shoot in your area , as they normally start at the 27 to 30 yd line and move back ! In our area we end-up 40 yds from the trap house and if you can't consistently break targets 25 or 30 yds out of the house ,
someone inline 2 or 3 or 4 shots down will put you out ......SO ..... Don't Doubt what you see , OK !

Again, what is your definition of "consistently"? I also shoot the games, every Tuesday. There are approximately 15 guys that show up every week and we shoot for money. These guys are old timers who specialize in long distance clay targets and they are good. We often end up 60 yards from the trap house by the time we are down to 3 or 5 guys left. That means taking shots at 70 yards, give or take. The average is about one break in 4 or 5 shots at those distances. And this is using very special handloads, developed over the years just for this long-distance shooting.
I don't consider 1 in 5 as hitting consistently.

Besides, you and I are talking about long-distance shooting a clay targets. No ethics involved there. Shooting a live animals at 60 and 70 yards is a completely different subject.

derbyacresbob wrote: shooters that know how to lead targets at long ranges can hit target at long ranges. There is no luck to it,
Examine a couple of 60 yard patterns, then tell me there's no luck to it. :wink:



Yes , I grant you in terms of what you or I call (consistency) , we too shoot loads that are tailored for the distance of
70 yds plus . These usually are Buffered and shot out of tight chokes with 1 1/8 oz to 1 1/4 oz payloads of very round hard
shot stuffed in wads that may be only be slit halfway down . I agree they are for breaking clay targets and not necessarily for
hunting purposes . But don't get me wrong , they will kill Doves much farther than one would believe if you know how to
shoot 'em ! The interesting part of these loads is that , speed / velocity isn't part of the equation for good patterns .
But experience shooting long targets on the Fly is !
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby 3200 man » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:38 am

OH , I also wanted to say , as you fellas already know , shooting from the fence ( 27 yd line ) targets are shot at from
42 to 46 on a norm with standard trap loads , which , if you're lucky would give you 85 to 90 percent patterns ( most gun/loads )
are not even close to that , as we know ? With the right components ( that your gun/choke likes ) and experience shooting
long targets , I know I can stay within the average shell count of the national ratio of shells used for Doves . :yes:


To the OP's Question, There are some Factory Pigeon / field loads that come real close to patterning for long range targets !
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby zpstl321 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:32 pm

I'll not comment past what I've already posted, but reading peoples thoughts on long range shotgunning reminds me of the video I seen on fieldsports you-tube channel. It is worth seeing if you can find it. Grant it the guy is a multi world clay shotgun champ, but he starts shooting at 20 yards and continues walking back 5 or 10 yards at a time until he is all the way back to 115 yards. Breaks every clay without doping a single clay. I guess it is the second time he has done it for a crowd of onlookers.

He switches to #5 shot on the longer targets because the small bird shot simply will not break the clays at those distances.
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Re: Factory Load suggestions long range doves

Postby zpstl321 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:38 pm

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