1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

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1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby D Comeaux » Sun May 11, 2014 12:12 pm

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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby steve-o » Tue May 13, 2014 10:18 pm

The President of the United States does not have the authority to change an already existing law, so why do Arkansans think a single circuit judge can?
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby beretta24 » Wed May 14, 2014 12:31 am

steve-o wrote:The President of the United States does not have the authority to change an already existing law, so why do Arkansans think a single circuit judge can?

Have you seen what the pres has done with the ACA...changed it many times over.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby cannon » Thu May 15, 2014 9:45 am

The State of Colorado virtually spits in the eye of the fed's by enacting and supporting the legal recreational use of a drug regulated under the Controlled Substances Act, and we can't get our men in black to uphold a constitutional amendment, overwhelmingly supported by voters, that defines the institution of marriage in this state? We should be waiving our middle fingers & sticking it to the man on Obamacare, and instead we've got a judge bucking the popular vote to advance a personal agenda in general support of faggery. Time to take it back.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby beretta24 » Thu May 15, 2014 11:20 am

cannon wrote:instead we've got a judge bucking the popular vote to advance a personal agenda


That's the principle issue in my mind. Did you read Sotomayor's dissenting opinion in the affirmative action case? So much of it had little to do with any reference to existing law. Can you say legislating from the bench?
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby cannon » Thu May 15, 2014 12:03 pm

beretta24 wrote:
cannon wrote:instead we've got a judge bucking the popular vote to advance a personal agenda


That's the principle issue in my mind. Did you read Sotomayor's dissenting opinion in the affirmative action case? So much of it had little to do with any reference to existing law. Can you say legislating from the bench?


Unfortunately, that's becoming the rule, rather than the exception.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby steamer1958 » Thu May 15, 2014 7:14 pm

It's very important who get elected president . He or she picks the judges for the high court. The court is about 50/50 now.


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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby beretta24 » Thu May 15, 2014 7:17 pm

And I think 4 of them will be over 79 by the time the next President gets into office as long as no more retire between now and then.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby cannon » Thu May 15, 2014 7:22 pm

steamer1958 wrote:It's very important who get elected president . He or she picks the judges for the high court. The court is about 50/50 now.


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This was an elected circuit judge making a decision at the state level.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby beretta24 » Thu May 15, 2014 7:27 pm

cannon wrote:
steamer1958 wrote:It's very important who get elected president . He or she picks the judges for the high court. The court is about 50/50 now.


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This was an elected circuit judge making a decision at the state level.

And the appellate court nominations are while Reid lead the charge to get rid of the filibuster, so the could fill the open seats with whatever judges they wanted without the need for any bipartisan support.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby G20M1 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:44 am

cannon wrote:The State of Colorado virtually spits in the eye of the fed's by enacting and supporting the legal recreational use of a drug regulated under the Controlled Substances Act, and we can't get our men in black to uphold a constitutional amendment, overwhelmingly supported by voters, that defines the institution of marriage in this state? We should be waiving our middle fingers & sticking it to the man on Obamacare, and instead we've got a judge bucking the popular vote to advance a personal agenda in general support of faggery. Time to take it back.


Why do you fear freedom so much? How does someone smoking a plant or a man marrying another man effect you? Don't like weed, don't smoke it. Don't want to marry a man don't. Also, can you show me in the US constitution were it gives the federal government the authority to regulate marijuana? I am one of the faggots who would like to marry (and enjoy all the legal benefits) the person I want to, however the government should not be involved in marriage at all, and nether should other people.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby beretta24 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:20 am

I agree the Government shouldn't be involved at all. They create the issue by creating incentives for married couples.

With that said, Cannons point was the state should have an inherent right to choose, and the Federal Government should stay out of it. I agree, and if I disagree with strongly enough with a state law I can move or push to change people's mind.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby cannon » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:44 am

G20M1 wrote:
cannon wrote:The State of Colorado virtually spits in the eye of the fed's by enacting and supporting the legal recreational use of a drug regulated under the Controlled Substances Act, and we can't get our men in black to uphold a constitutional amendment, overwhelmingly supported by voters, that defines the institution of marriage in this state? We should be waiving our middle fingers & sticking it to the man on Obamacare, and instead we've got a judge bucking the popular vote to advance a personal agenda in general support of faggery. Time to take it back.


Why do you fear freedom so much? How does someone smoking a plant or a man marrying another man effect you? Don't like weed, don't smoke it. Don't want to marry a man don't. Also, can you show me in the US constitution were it gives the federal government the authority to regulate marijuana? I am one of the faggots who would like to marry (and enjoy all the legal benefits) the person I want to, however the government should not be involved in marriage at all, and nether should other people.


Defensive, are we? You missed my point. While I don't use illicit drugs and don't encourage others to do so, I absolutely applaud the State of Colorado's decision to thumb it's nose at the Feds. The passage of that bill was one of the high moments in political history as far as I am concerned, because it symbolizes one state's willingness to stand up to a federal "police power" which simply does not exist under our governmental system. This "power" is a legal fiction that has been created by our court system and ratified by a population that is more and more willing to bend over and take it, pun intended.

You live in the least "free" state in the history of mankind. There are more regulations, rules, and mandates, which comprise the polar opposite of "freedom", in your home state than in all others combined. That's fine, because I don't live there. The people of the State of Arkansas, however, passed an amendment by popular vote of over 75% to protect their definition of marriage. Now a single man in a black robe dictates that the super-majority of the population doesn't have any right to choose. Nope, I don't "fear freedom." I celebrate state's rights. And whether you agree with it or disagree with it, I'll never apologize for my conviction that it is better to be governed by the people than by a dictator. When one man or even a single entity like our federal government can dictate the actions of everyone else, we're all subjected to tyranny by the minority.

Don't want to live in Arkansas? Don't. But you can't have it both ways. If you celebrate Colorado's right to ignore federal standards and blow right passed the Controlled Substance Act, you can't blast another state's decision to ignore federal standards regarding marriage. The revocation of anything resembling that "freedom" you mentioned was exactly what I was complaining about.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby G20M1 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:13 am

Defensive, are we?
When you use words like "faggery" do expect anything less?
Nope, I don't "fear freedom." I celebrate state's rights.
States do not have rights people do, government is there to protect your rights.

And whether you agree with it or disagree with it, I'll never apologize for my conviction that it is better to be governed by the people than by a dictator.
I'd rather be governed by myself.

When one man or even a single entity like our federal government can dictate the actions of everyone else, we're all subjected to tyranny by the minority.
Is it better to subject to the tyranny of the majority? Here in the PRK I'm sure you could get 51% of people to agree to ban handguns, that is why we have a constitutional REPUBLIC. Democracy is fine while you are in the majority, but when you are in a minority, it is the gun pointed at you.

If you celebrate Colorado's right to ignore federal standards and blow right passed the Controlled Substance Act, you can't blast another state's decision to ignore federal standards regarding marriage. The revocation of anything resembling that "freedom" you mentioned was exactly what I was complaining about.

I celebrate Colorado for fighting an unconstitutional statute, your state is ignoring a constitutionally protected right.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby beretta24 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:01 pm

What constitutionally protected right are you referring to?

I think I know which clause you are basing your argument on, but I want to be sure I don't misunderstand you.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby cannon » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:08 pm

G20M1 wrote:
Defensive, are we?
When you use words like "faggery" do expect anything less?
Nope, I don't "fear freedom." I celebrate state's rights.
States do not have rights people do, government is there to protect your rights.

And whether you agree with it or disagree with it, I'll never apologize for my conviction that it is better to be governed by the people than by a dictator.
I'd rather be governed by myself.

When one man or even a single entity like our federal government can dictate the actions of everyone else, we're all subjected to tyranny by the minority.
Is it better to subject to the tyranny of the majority? Here in the PRK I'm sure you could get 51% of people to agree to ban handguns, that is why we have a constitutional REPUBLIC. Democracy is fine while you are in the majority, but when you are in a minority, it is the gun pointed at you.

If you celebrate Colorado's right to ignore federal standards and blow right passed the Controlled Substance Act, you can't blast another state's decision to ignore federal standards regarding marriage. The revocation of anything resembling that "freedom" you mentioned was exactly what I was complaining about.

I celebrate Colorado for fighting an unconstitutional statute, your state is ignoring a constitutionally protected right.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby G20M1 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:15 pm

beretta24 wrote:What constitutionally protected right are you referring to?

I think I know which clause you are basing your argument on, but I want to be sure I don't misunderstand you.


The 9th amendment, coupled with the 14th.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Marriage is included in this.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Equal protection, and P or I.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby beretta24 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:04 pm

I would say that's your subjective opinion to this point. The reason I say this is there are numerous examples where some groups get advantageous treatment under the law, and its been deemed constitutional. Those lines alone don't prove your position.

To date the supreme hasn't decided one way or the other. It appears clear that they won't stop a state from allowing gay marriage, but they haven't stated bans are unconstitutional either.

I'm not passing judgement beyond believing states issue to decide what most advantageous for the state, consenting adults should be able to choose what they do with whom under their own roof, and that comes with the underlying belief that I don't think a marriage should be regulated by a state or federal government at all.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby G20M1 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:45 pm

It absolutely is my subjective opinion, I tend to take the view that rights are general unlimited. That the Constitution should never be used to restrict rights.

I agree that a lot of groups get special treatment or protections. Sometimes they are warranted ie. hate crime legislation in the 60's but those protections are no longer needed to offset the additional risk those groups of people face.

To date the supreme hasn't decided one way or the other. It appears clear that they won't stop a state from allowing gay marriage, but they haven't stated bans are unconstitutional either.
But isn't that what everyone is complaining about is "activist" judges striking down a law.

I just want equal rights if that means that marriage goes back to simply being a religious ritual,(which it should) and we have a new civil union type thing for everyone for tax, property ownership, benefits, etc. I'm all for it.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby beretta24 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:00 pm

There's a lot to say about your argument, but while you haven't been disrespectful in any way I haven't successfully continued down this line of discussion without things getting personal in the past so I'll leave it at that.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby cannon » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:42 pm

G20M1 wrote:It absolutely is my subjective opinion, I tend to take the view that rights are general unlimited. That the Constitution should never be used to restrict rights.

I agree that a lot of groups get special treatment or protections. Sometimes they are warranted ie. hate crime legislation in the 60's but those protections are no longer needed to offset the additional risk those groups of people face.

To date the supreme hasn't decided one way or the other. It appears clear that they won't stop a state from allowing gay marriage, but they haven't stated bans are unconstitutional either.
But isn't that what everyone is complaining about is "activist" judges striking down a law.

I just want equal rights if that means that marriage goes back to simply being a religious ritual,(which it should) and we have a new civil union type thing for everyone for tax, property ownership, benefits, etc. I'm all for it.


The problem is, you're confusing the concept of "rights" with the concept of "privileges."
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby G20M1 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:47 pm

beretta24 wrote:There's a lot to say about your argument, but while you haven't been disrespectful in any way I haven't successfully continued down this line of discussion without things getting personal in the past so I'll leave it at that.

I respect that and I thank you.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby G20M1 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:55 pm

The problem is, you're confusing the concept of "rights" with the concept of "privileges."
No the problem is we really have no "rights" anymore and only have "privileges" as everything can be taken from you, including your life.

But let's say you are right that marriage is a privilege( which it is not) you still have go though due process to take it away from me, that means going to a judge and showing how you are harmed(legally) by me marring another man. That is why the judge struck down the ban. And that is why SCOTUS struck down DOMA.

BTW what did you mean by you last post where you just quoted me?
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby cannon » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:34 pm

G20M1 wrote:
The problem is, you're confusing the concept of "rights" with the concept of "privileges."
No the problem is we really have no "rights" anymore and only have "privileges" as everything can be taken from you, including your life.

But let's say you are right that marriage is a privilege( which it is not) you still have go though due process to take it away from me, that means going to a judge and showing how you are harmed(legally) by me marring another man. That is why the judge struck down the ban. And that is why SCOTUS struck down DOMA.

BTW what did you mean by you last post where you just quoted me?


Nope didn't say getting married was a privilege. It certainly is a right, and that right is equally applicable, whether it's between a man and a goat, rock, or oak tree. The privilege part comes in when you met those criteria, set forth by the state, for a legally recognizable marriage relationship in this state. It is not an equality issue, because any legally competent person can avail himself or herself to that privilege, so long as they choose to accept the criteria. Moreover, it's not a takings issue, because what you never had can't be taken away, and Arkansas has never recognized same-sex marriages. Same goes for driving a car. You're perfectly within your rights to do so with or without a license. Doing so with the privileges afforded by a valid drivers license requires meeting the state's criteria.

With regard to what I meant to your last post by quoting you was that I started to respond, but then had a minor emergency to attend to, and apparently sent the response as I was attempting to close it. We experienced some fairly significant weather in this part of the state today (a couple of people actually we're killed). A train was derailed, trees, limbs, power lines went down. When that happens on a farm, you are your own first responder. Roads had to be cleared, broken water lines had to be shut off, and damage assessment was necessary on each field. I simply didn't have the time to finish what I had started.

You seem like a reasonable enough person, and I'm not judging you based upon your choice of lifestyle. On the other hand, if you're hoping to convince me that the state of Arkansas should legally recognize same-sex marriage, you're going to be disappointed. More so, if you're trying to convince me that federal intervention in state policy is a ever healthy, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

As for the "faggery" comment, I make no apologies. There is little more in life that annoys me beyond someone openly promoting their lifestyle and then complaining about the labels attached to it. I live on a farm, and that is my choice. I am labeled a redneck. I'll not shed any tears or accuse someone of living a life of fear because of it.
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Re: 1st Gay marriage License In Arkansas

Postby G20M1 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:30 pm

Despite this discussion we probably agree on a lot more thing than we disagree on. There is most likely nothing I can say to change your mind, and nothing can be done to change me trust me I've tired.

As for the "faggery" comment, I make no apologies. There is little more in life that annoys me beyond someone openly promoting their lifestyle and then complaining about the labels attached to it. I live on a farm, and that is my choice. I am labeled a redneck. I'll not shed any tears or accuse someone of living a life of fear because of it.


To me it means "Let's fight", plus I doubt someone ever said to you while carrying a bat, "Hey, redneck what are you doing here."
Also I hope everyone who was injured a full and speedy recovery.

I will end this by saying that I will never stop fighting for my(and your) rights, be it guns, privacy, speech, or equality under the law. I will make an appeal to heaven, and if necessary die for them.
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