Long / Pass Shooting vs SkyBusting / Scraping

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Postby WIDGEONATOR » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:56 pm

Mattquack wrote:I believe that as long as I'm respectful about my shooting, and don't "long shoot" at birds that someone nearby is calling/working, then I'm doing nothing wrong.


Here in lies the problem:

If someone is waiting to shoot at birds in the "45 yard range," and you find it acceptable to shoot at birds in the 60 range. Who is to say what bird is working who? The birds at 60 had to have just flown over someone else who decided they were waaaaaaaay too high. So even though you think you are being respectful by not shooting at birds that some one else is working, you might still be disrespectful by just shooting high in general. Usually birds loop around in 45-60 yard range a few times before they commit. So how is the guy who is trying to work the birds in ever going to get a shot, if people are banging away at every bird that flies over at 60.

Just some food for thought.
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Postby Mattquack » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:03 pm

WIDGEONATOR wrote:
Mattquack wrote:I believe that as long as I'm respectful about my shooting, and don't "long shoot" at birds that someone nearby is calling/working, then I'm doing nothing wrong.


Here in lies the problem:

If someone is waiting to shoot at birds in the "45 yard range," and you find it acceptable to shoot at birds in the 60 range. Who is to say what bird is working who? The birds at 60 had to have just flown over someone else who decided they were waaaaaaaay too high. So even though you think you are being respectful by not shooting at birds that some one else is working, you might still be disrespectful by just shooting high in general. Usually birds loop around in 45-60 yard range a few times before they commit. So how is the guy who is trying to work the birds in ever going to get a shot, if people are banging away at every bird that flies over at 60.

Just some food for thought.


With all due respect.... If you'd take a look at what I consider the difference between "sky scraping" and "pass shooting", you'll see why 60 yards to me while pass shooting in many cases is fine in my oppinion. 60 yards out is different than 60 yards up. I also feel that if you are shooting 3" shells, then 45 yards in any direction should be the limit. While shooting 3 1/2" shells, I feel that if you're personally capable to kill birds at 60 yards out, then why wouldn't you?

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Postby hunt Chessies » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:32 pm

Im staying out of it this round! I get too frustrated! :hammering:

People don't change, so hopefully the good hunters will set the tone for our future!
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Postby WIDGEONATOR » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:48 pm

If you are hunting in area where there isn't anybody else hunting, then it doesn't really matter how high you shoot. If there is other people around then, I personally feel it's a different story. My gun shoots 3.5, but I try to only shoot those at geese. I personally feel that the whole reason the 3.5 was invented was due to the fact steel doesn't work on geese past say 45 yards, which is debatable, because I nocked one down at 50 last year (The Golden BB). I was planning to follow up with my next shot a bismuth BB 3.5.

The point is if you are shoot at birds 60 yards straight up, then every other guy who lets birds fly over his head at 60 all day is really getting hosed. So he gets :pissed: and starts scrapin too. Then you get the spiral effect going were as soon a bird enters the Stratusfere some ones bang'in away at it before it even has a chance to work.

My ideal hunting situation, "when every body is letting the birds work" is:

Letting the birds that are 45 yards up fly by, because they want to come down. I don't mind passing up a shot, to let the birds circle back around for a better one, and yes they might go into someone esle's blind. But if they are not scrap'in then they earned it in my book. :salude:
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Postby stalns » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:45 am

I'm sorry but 60 yards is a long way.... IMO
I haven't shot 3 1/2's so maybe there is something to be said. But what are the odds of a clean kill at this range vs a miss or crippling BB that doesn't take the bird down?
Shoot Straight!!!

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Postby WIDGEONATOR » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:26 pm

With a Steel 3.5 BB, you can drop them at 60. I have seen guys (the sky scrapers next door) get confident with 60, and now they are attempting 65 and even 80 yards shots :hammering: .

They drop alot of birds, probably 60% of what they shoot at. The funny thing is when the birds come in close, they miss every time because their choke is too tight. :laughing:
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Postby Mattquack » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:14 pm

Okay, You guys win. I'm going to go buy a .410 guage, and keep 'em all in the 10 yard range. :toofunny: :salude:
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Postby WIDGEONATOR » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:48 pm

:yes:
How about a Red Rider BB Gun, and you pour a bunch a BB's down the barrel to get the shot gun effect. :laughing:
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Postby CrackerJackShot » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:57 pm

Hey I tried that on a little crap bird!!! :toofunny: It didnt work too well though..... :thumbsdown:
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Postby Russell » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:23 am

Skybusting IMO is a behaviorial problem, not always a load problem.....guys that shoot too high for conditions will do it with any shell from 2-3/4 on up....

Along with that...though I'm not good at it....there are guys who can consistently fold ducks (albeit few and far between) at some of those longer ranges and there are places for them. Not a good idea on a club, nor would it be on most public areas where the majority of guys are decoy hunters, as we prolly most are (or try to be.)
However...pass shooting snows on a fencerow, pass shooting by a closed zone firing line for example?....why not? Let em do it! It keeps em out of my way.

Some 3-1/2 bashing going on....I still maintain that the 3-1/2 in the right hands has it's place. For me, it's an excellent heavy cover (tules and watergrass) big duck load when shooting over decoys with an improved cylinder tube. No floppers, no swimmers....makes it easy on the dog, especially while hunting disced ponds or deeper water. Definately overkill for shallow open water rice fields or teal shooters though...It's all about the payload and speed required for the individual gun to make clean, recoverable kills....it ain't about the length

Overall point (sorry for the rant)....guys have to PAY ATTENTION to the conditions they are in when pass shooting....attempting pass shooting near decoy guys is NOT the thing to do. On the same note..I wouldn't try to set up and decoy hunt near a closed zone firing line or around a bunch of snows. Be aware of the conditions and habitat you are in, and don't get higher expectations out of the gun/load and duck combination you have for the day. :thumbsup:
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Postby WIDGEONATOR » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:47 pm

SOME GOOD ADVICE :withstupid:
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Postby dukaddict » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:56 pm

Great thread :yes:

I grew up pass/long range shooting, started with a single shot .410 on bandtails you really learn to pick your shots and stay within your ability
you`ve already said pretty much everything and I agree
however, I have to say, scrapers who don`t chase their cripples have no place in the marsh imo but it`s a free country

Now I strive to set up where the birds want to be by much scouting and paying attention and shoot `em in the beak, and I live for sneaking up on the birds and killing the ones I picked out before they knew I was there.
I know this is tough or even down right impossible on some refuges but the guys who walk out of the parking lot and shoot at/educate every bird that comes out of the closed zones no matter how high are just making us all look bad and making the places harder and harder to hunt

How many times have you watched birds approach an area only to get fired on at 90 yards then try another spot and get hammered at 70 then give up and go back somewhere they are safe?They pass this flight pattern on to future generations and after a few years it`s almost impossible to get birds in range. I know some guys come to shoot, to them "it`s just a duck" for me it`s much much more, it`s about ethics, it`s about not feeling bad about taking a shot I probably shouldn`t have just because everyone else is doing it. My point is the guys who scrape and don`t chase their cripples or even make an effort at retrieval of a bird they stoned just because it landed too far out or it gets them one bird closer to a limit if they go get it really bug me.

You might remember the story I told earlier in the year about walking out past this guy and his kid, I knew he was banging away at anything because I could see from my setup while I was pulling the dekes. I had to walk right by them on the way out as they were sitting on the dike with little cover, a bag of unused dekes and a couple of mallards at their feet. As I approached a drake gad came out about 55 yards up so I got down in some weeds, he came on and the guy hit him with the first shot, pretty good I thought, he broke a wing with the second and stoned him with the third. He landed about 70 yards out on an island, hard bottom pond no cover on the island you could see the duck laying there.
Dam good shooting I said as I got up then offered to send Jake since I could see he had no dog, no thanks he said, the kid jumped up and said he`d get it the guy grabbed his shoulder and set him back down
all he said was no you won`t it`s just a gadwall
I just shook my head and walked away
sorry for the rant too
this "behavioral problem" is especially hard to take when they`re passing it on to future generations hopefully the kid will remember the look of disaproval on my face and he`ll learn to be a better hunter than the guy he was with that day
ok I`m off the soapbox now :thumbsup:

ever try whacking them on the head with a blown up barrel?
what a rush
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