Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

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Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby 1morepin » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:47 pm

**Also posted this in the Dog Forum, Thought I'd also get opinions from the California forum as well.

Hello all-

I'm thinking about getting a new dog and doing my research I stumbled upon the Deutch Drahthaar. I'm really interested in getting one and thought I'd ask for opinions; The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. 90% of the time the dog will be used for Ducks and 10% will be Doves, Quail and Grouse.

Also, any experience with breeders in California would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks for all opinions in advance,

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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby friedcoot » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:13 pm

I'd stick with a dependable breed. There is a reason you see mostly labs in the field and a reason you don't see any Deutch Drahthaars.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby TonyM » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:53 am

I've got a 6 year old Draht now. Fantastic on both waterfowl and upland. Upland hunting for me is just killing time til duck season. My Draht has a ton of drive, but is very manageable and just wants to please. Outstanding focus. Lays still on his stand or in his box all day watching the sky. I can tell when birds are coming in behind me just by watching the dog. Marks well. Steady til I send him. Great in the water. Strong retriever. Great nose. Busts thick cover. No quit. Delivers to hand. I tell him "place" and he goes back to his spot and lays down to do it all over again. Just like I would expect from any good lab. I like labs and most of my friends still have them, including a few that either don't retrieve or are so spastic their owners don't want to take them out. Those I hunt with are always impressed. Bottom line...a good dog is a good dog. A well bred dog and an owner that puts in the time is what really matters. To say Drahthaars are not a dependable breed is either uneducated or crazy. The Drahthaar breeding standards are so strict, there's very little chance of getting one that isn't a strong hunter. You won't be giving up anything by getting a Draht. I got my dog from N. Dakota. As far as Drahthaar breeders in California, the only one I know of off the top of my head is Bob Worrell in Gorman. You can go the VDD-GNA website for a list of breeders by state. Feel free to PM me with any more questions or if you want to see him work.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby Eurowig » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:03 pm

I think a DH is a dependable dog. Just about everyone that has one says that they are good hunters. The ugly is just that they look ugly to me. Also I hear they are a bit more mean than most dogs. Other than that....they have a killer drive to hunt which is a big plus.

I always hear people say use a dependable dog like a lab...This comment drives me nuts.

Get a dog that fits your lifestyle. If you like to hike, hunt (everything) then get a DH. Lots of fire in them so they need to run.

I have a DK (basically a German Shorthair Pointer). She is nuts and needs to run alot. In the blind she is just fine.

Just my .02 cents
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby friedcoot » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:18 pm

Eurowig wrote:I
I always hear people say use a dependable dog like a lab...This comment drives me nuts.




Sorry about that. I've had a few different breeds in my life and can honestly say my lab, when every card is thrown down, comes out with a higher hand. In the end, it really doesn't matter, as once you select the dog, it becomes part of the family no matter what.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby PaulyQuackers » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:22 pm

If you hunt both ducks and upland game, and you only want one dog, it's nice to have one that is good for both. For just ducks, a retriever is the best. I hunted with a guy that owned a Griffon Wirehaired Pointer. I'm not sure if there is any difference, but It was pretty much useless. Then again, I doubt he spend much time training it, and it didn't do anything on upland game, but maybe the dog wasn't from a hunting line.

I had an American Water Spaniel that I thought would serve both purposes, but it had a soft mouth, and he couldn't hold a duck anywhere near the size of a mallard. I never could figure out how to fix that problem, and often wondered if a Griffon Pointer would have been a better choice, because of it's size. My Spaniel was an excellent swimmer, and had one of the best noses that I have ever hunted with, so it turned out to be excellent on pheasant and grouse. You just never know with a multi-purpose hunting dog. In my opinion, a good upland dog is more essential than a retriever, if you plan on doing both, because you can always retrieve your own ducks.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby TonyM » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:44 pm

Griffons are a different animal than a Draht...literally. Just check out the requirements to be able to breed a Draht. A true Draht will have a tattoo in the ear with their registry number and come from parents that have successfully passed a series of hunt tests and be free of genetic defects. They don't pass...you can't breed it as a Draht. If you buy a Draht, odds are extremely high you'll be getting a talented dog. The rest is up to you. I could provide a list of guys I hunt with who own labs that have been highly impressed with my ugly dog. I haven't seen a lab (or any other "retriever") do anything an ugly dog can't.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby PaulyQuackers » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:51 pm

TonyM wrote:Griffons are a different animal than a Draht...literally.


Sorry, I was talking about a German Wirehaired Pointer, as it is typically called in English. It appears that a Deutsch Drahthaar is just a title given to more qualified GWP dogs. But if you are going to get a GWP for hunting, it only makes sense to get the more qualified version, which the one I hunted with may not have been.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby JonD » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:21 pm

PaulyQuackers wrote:
TonyM wrote:Griffons are a different animal than a Draht...literally.


Sorry, I was talking about a German Wirehaired Pointer, as it is typically called in English. It appears that a Deutsch Drahthaar is just a title given to more qualified GWP dogs. But if you are going to get a GWP for hunting, it only makes sense to get the more qualified version, which the one I hunted with may not have been.


Whoa there, a DD is nothing like a GWP other than a somewhat similar look. I just got my Drahthaar pup 2 weeks ago and he already points and retreives pheasant wings and has a serious prey drive. Like TonyM was saying these dogs have to be inspected for "defects" and have to pass a 2 day field trial with a high score in order to breed them. So although the DD may have some GWP in there lineage they are truly a different breed now.

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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby PaulyQuackers » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:51 pm

JonD wrote:Whoa there, a DD is nothing like a GWP other than a somewhat similar look. I just got my Drahthaar pup 2 weeks ago and he already points and retreives pheasant wings and has a serious prey drive. Like TonyM was saying these dogs have to be inspected for "defects" and have to pass a 2 day field trial with a high score in order to breed them. So although the DD may have some GWP in there lineage they are truly a different breed now.


They are referred to as a German Wirehaired Pointer.
http://www.deutschdrahthaar.com/


I believe it is fair to say that a DD is a GWP, which has some WPG in them.
http://www.vomrogers.com/drahthaar_history.php
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby JonD » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:59 pm

PaulyQuackers wrote:
JonD wrote:Whoa there, a DD is nothing like a GWP other than a somewhat similar look. I just got my Drahthaar pup 2 weeks ago and he already points and retreives pheasant wings and has a serious prey drive. Like TonyM was saying these dogs have to be inspected for "defects" and have to pass a 2 day field trial with a high score in order to breed them. So although the DD may have some GWP in there lineage they are truly a different breed now.


They are referred to as a German Wirehaired Pointer.
http://www.deutschdrahthaar.com/


I believe it is fair to say that a DD is a GWP, which has some WPG in them.
http://www.vomrogers.com/drahthaar_history.php


"Many breeders of the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) errantly refer to their breed as Drahthaar. In addition to significant differences in breed standard, the Wirehair has been bred without regulation or restriction since the late 1950's, but especially without the performance testing that proves the ability of the Drahthaar. After years of unrestricted breeding and no versatile performance standards the GWP has evolved into a distinctly separate breed."


Guess you didnt read down to the 4th paragraph
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby PaulyQuackers » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:35 pm

JonD wrote:Many breeders of the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) errantly refer to their breed as Drahthaar.


That's because Deutsch Drahthaar translated in English is German Wirehair.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby Silver Wings » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:32 pm

JonD wrote:[Whoa there, a DD is nothing like a GWP other than a somewhat similar look. I just got my Drahthaar pup 2 weeks ago and he already points and retreives pheasant wings and has a serious prey drive. Like TonyM was saying these dogs have to be inspected for "defects" and have to pass a 2 day field trial with a high score in order to breed them. So although the DD may have some GWP in there lineage they are truly a different breed now.

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This is what I love about this board. It's the wealth of knowledge....all you need do is ask for it :lol3:

So, tell us more JonD, regal us with your vast knowledge of the versatile breeds, the Deutsch Drahthaar in particular. Clearly, after owning one for 2 full weeks you are more than qualified to lead the charge for VDD-GNA and carry forth the "separate breed" banner. Instead of mindlessly drinking that VDD koolaide you found on their website, I would gently suggest doing a little research of your own. Better yet....attend a few tests, both VDD-GNA and NAVHDA, after watching your DD and my GWP if you can look me in the eye and still say they are two different breeds I'll buy the first round.....a beer for me and another koolaide for you :beer: .
Last edited by Silver Wings on Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby WoodDuck21 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:09 pm

Cant offer much on the DD, but have hunted over a similar breed, the Pudelpointer. Versatile in both upland and waterfowl, and just as ugly. :biggrin:

She was a pleasure to hunt with and has done well in both rice and refuges for ducks. Where she absolutley without a doubt shined was in a pheasant field. So much fun to watch. She was driven, extremely birdy, and had a fantastic nose and handled very well. Only issue I ever saw was her being cold, and that only occured on a handful of the worst days. I can't comment on the personal charterstics as it was a buddys dog. But based on my hunting experiences and his word, I wouldn't hesitate to explore some of the "other breeds."

Good luck. :thumbsup:
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby finsnfeathershunter » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:12 pm

Pauly,

Is that a Boykin in your picture? I am real tempted to get one but need to see one in person. Not a common breed out here on the west coast.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby quack-attack » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:40 am

I have ownded 3 GWP'S and one GWP that was also a registered DD so I follow the breed with some interest. The best explanation I have ever heard basically said all DD' are also GWP'S but not all GWP'S are DD'S. my current dog is a GWP without the DD lineage. Still the best dog I ever owned. The one dog I did own that was a certified DD was the most hard headed stubborn SOB I have ever owned and but he ended up getting cancer and dieing before he ever got into his prime years. I love these dogs. Very family friendly and they hunt everything. My dig can go from being a pointer hunti g pheasants to being a retriever sitting by a blind and he does both very well.

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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby California Sprig » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:16 am

You hunt 90% waterfowl then get a dog bred and born to hunt ducks, get a lab. In addition they are great upland dogs also.
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Re: Thoughs on a Deutch Drahthaar

Postby PaulyQuackers » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:20 pm

finsnfeathershunter wrote:Pauly,

Is that a Boykin in your picture? I am real tempted to get one but need to see one in person. Not a common breed out here on the west coast.


It's an American Water Spaniel. I got my dad an AWS when I lived in Michigan, and I loved that dog. They only seem to breed them in the Midwest. I haven't been able to find anyone breeding AWS's anywhere in California. It didn't retrieve all that great, but made a hell of an upland game dog. It has an excellent nose, and It flushes, which in Michigan was essential, because pheasant learned to run instead of hide. I got ours from a guy in Cadillac Michigan, who showed me pictures of this 25lbs dog retrieving giant canada geese, so I know they can retrieve, and they love to swim. Only down side is the coat catches a lot of burs, and they can't handle the really cold water. I seen someone walking an AWS at the strawberry festival in Arroyo Grande a few years back and I always wondered where it came from.
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