Moderators: #1wingnut, finsnfeathershunter, spoonysmaker, duckman2000, PinTeal
duckshooter wrote:I would love for someone to check my math on this but I was bored at work and just decided to run some numbers and determined that the lead difference between 1,450 feet per second and 1,600 feet per second at 25 yards on a duck flying 25 milers per hour is .0070008 feet or .084096 inches. This would also suggest that the total lead on a duck flying 25 miles per hour at 25 yards would be just under an inch which doesn't feel right. I just guessed at average duck flight speed when buzzing decoys and distance so maybe those are way off. Here's my math:
1,600 feet / second gets to 25 yards (75 feet) in .0468 seconds
1,450 feet / second gets to 25 yards )75 feet) in .0517 seconds
the difference is .0048 seconds (hypersonic gets to 25 yards .0048 seconds faster than regular shot going 1,450 feet per second)
A duck traveling 25 miles (5,280 feet) per hour is going 1.467 feet per second
1.467 feet x .0048 seconds = .007008 feet or .084096 inches
jmonte35 wrote:duckshooter wrote:I would love for someone to check my math on this but I was bored at work and just decided to run some numbers and determined that the lead difference between 1,450 feet per second and 1,600 feet per second at 25 yards on a duck flying 25 milers per hour is .0070008 feet or .084096 inches. This would also suggest that the total lead on a duck flying 25 miles per hour at 25 yards would be just under an inch which doesn't feel right. I just guessed at average duck flight speed when buzzing decoys and distance so maybe those are way off. Here's my math:
1,600 feet / second gets to 25 yards (75 feet) in .0468 seconds
1,450 feet / second gets to 25 yards )75 feet) in .0517 seconds
the difference is .0048 seconds (hypersonic gets to 25 yards .0048 seconds faster than regular shot going 1,450 feet per second)
A duck traveling 25 miles (5,280 feet) per hour is going 1.467 feet per second
1.467 feet x .0048 seconds = .007008 feet or .084096 inches
Your math is wrong. I can walk faster than 1.4 feet per second. I think you're doing the math for 1 MPH
AJCsurf wrote:25mph is 36.6667 ft/s
mendotakiller wrote:If you shoot hypersonic you might as well be hiding in the weeds with a bucket of popcorn and throw that at them. and as far as the math goes why dont you calculate the bird at 40 yards? 25 seems a bit close....dosent matter what load you use when there that close. just pull to the beak and pull the trigger lol
fish dog wrote:I know you're mainly talking leading the bird here but would the faster loads have more know down power resulting in more clean kills and less cripples to swim away into the tules to be lost? I don't know, just wondering out loud. I'm thinking maybe so, especially with how steel slows down once it leaves the barrel.
mendotakiller wrote:If you shoot hypersonic you might as well be hiding in the weeds with a bucket of popcorn and throw that at them. and as far as the math goes why dont you calculate the bird at 40 yards? 25 seems a bit close....dosent matter what load you use when there that close. just pull to the beak and pull the trigger lol
Mugzwump wrote:There are a lot of variables when looking at how much lead is gained or lost with velocity.
The way I do it, quickly, it's not exactly accurate but it works with a certain amount of fudge, is to just run the numbers with disregard to the pellet slowing down, like you did... but then run the numbers at the final velocity of the pellet at that distance... there are charts you can just pick from.. figure to 40 yards a 1500 fps will be around 800 fps or less ( just guessing here) So run that number and then you know its between the first run and second run...
make sense? You're lead of 1.8 feet there would be closer to 2.5 feet. Also ducks move a lot faster than 25 mph... probably at full tilt without the wind in excess of 50 or 60 mph. The lead for a fast 60 mph bird at 40 yards should be around 6 to 10 feet ahead of the beak. At the bird not the barrel. Use basic trig and the angle in degrees if you want to use the barrel as reference. ie.. bird is zero degrees and lead is 15 degrees off.. cool thing is this is relatively constant over changes in distance as long as bird speed and MV are constant. Drawing a picture helps too... lol. It gets crazy when you start thinking about how the wind affects the lead. Everything you know goes to crap.
Mugz.
duckshooter wrote:mendotakiller wrote:If you shoot hypersonic you might as well be hiding in the weeds with a bucket of popcorn and throw that at them. and as far as the math goes why dont you calculate the bird at 40 yards? 25 seems a bit close....dosent matter what load you use when there that close. just pull to the beak and pull the trigger lol
You could plug in any distance or bird flight speed you want and come up with the lead difference but as a reference we could just double the 2" difference at 25 yards to get 4" difference at 50 yards. So the lead at the barrel for 50 yards would be roughly __.Mugzwump wrote:There are a lot of variables when looking at how much lead is gained or lost with velocity.
The way I do it, quickly, it's not exactly accurate but it works with a certain amount of fudge, is to just run the numbers with disregard to the pellet slowing down, like you did... but then run the numbers at the final velocity of the pellet at that distance... there are charts you can just pick from.. figure to 40 yards a 1500 fps will be around 800 fps or less ( just guessing here) So run that number and then you know its between the first run and second run...
make sense? You're lead of 1.8 feet there would be closer to 2.5 feet. Also ducks move a lot faster than 25 mph... probably at full tilt without the wind in excess of 50 or 60 mph. The lead for a fast 60 mph bird at 40 yards should be around 6 to 10 feet ahead of the beak. At the bird not the barrel. Use basic trig and the angle in degrees if you want to use the barrel as reference. ie.. bird is zero degrees and lead is 15 degrees off.. cool thing is this is relatively constant over changes in distance as long as bird speed and MV are constant. Drawing a picture helps too... lol. It gets crazy when you start thinking about how the wind affects the lead. Everything you know goes to crap.
Mugz.
I'm assuming both shots will slow down at roughly the same rate so that would just be a constant and could be thrown out of the equation for simplicity sake.
Mugzwump wrote:duckshooter wrote:mendotakiller wrote:If you shoot hypersonic you might as well be hiding in the weeds with a bucket of popcorn and throw that at them. and as far as the math goes why dont you calculate the bird at 40 yards? 25 seems a bit close....dosent matter what load you use when there that close. just pull to the beak and pull the trigger lol
You could plug in any distance or bird flight speed you want and come up with the lead difference but as a reference we could just double the 2" difference at 25 yards to get 4" difference at 50 yards. So the lead at the barrel for 50 yards would be roughly __.Mugzwump wrote:There are a lot of variables when looking at how much lead is gained or lost with velocity.
The way I do it, quickly, it's not exactly accurate but it works with a certain amount of fudge, is to just run the numbers with disregard to the pellet slowing down, like you did... but then run the numbers at the final velocity of the pellet at that distance... there are charts you can just pick from.. figure to 40 yards a 1500 fps will be around 800 fps or less ( just guessing here) So run that number and then you know its between the first run and second run...
make sense? You're lead of 1.8 feet there would be closer to 2.5 feet. Also ducks move a lot faster than 25 mph... probably at full tilt without the wind in excess of 50 or 60 mph. The lead for a fast 60 mph bird at 40 yards should be around 6 to 10 feet ahead of the beak. At the bird not the barrel. Use basic trig and the angle in degrees if you want to use the barrel as reference. ie.. bird is zero degrees and lead is 15 degrees off.. cool thing is this is relatively constant over changes in distance as long as bird speed and MV are constant. Drawing a picture helps too... lol. It gets crazy when you start thinking about how the wind affects the lead. Everything you know goes to crap.
Mugz.
I'm assuming both shots will slow down at roughly the same rate so that would just be a constant and could be thrown out of the equation for simplicity sake.
Sorry... both "shots"are the SAME shot. Just one is muzzle velocity(on the box) and the other is final velocity at the target. With the two points you can use very basic physics to give yourself a min and max lead. You know the lead is more than that calculated by muzzle velocity and less than that calculated with final velocity. It's not totally correct as the real answer lies somewhere in between... with out knowing the actual rate of deceleration, or air resistance for each pellet size and shape we use, as far as I know it's the easiest way to get a good idea of what lead should be other than just gaining more experience in the field. It's very much red-neck science here... and of course it's all based on a very huge variable which is the ducks flight speed. Part of why I like this method is that whole "in between" part that sort of makes up for your errors in judging the birds speed... and gives you a good excuse for when you miss.
Obviously if you were really into it you could look up all the formula and do it right.
Mugz.
duckshooter wrote:Mugzwump wrote:duckshooter wrote:mendotakiller wrote:If you shoot hypersonic you might as well be hiding in the weeds with a bucket of popcorn and throw that at them. and as far as the math goes why dont you calculate the bird at 40 yards? 25 seems a bit close....dosent matter what load you use when there that close. just pull to the beak and pull the trigger lol
You could plug in any distance or bird flight speed you want and come up with the lead difference but as a reference we could just double the 2" difference at 25 yards to get 4" difference at 50 yards. So the lead at the barrel for 50 yards would be roughly __.Mugzwump wrote:There are a lot of variables when looking at how much lead is gained or lost with velocity.
The way I do it, quickly, it's not exactly accurate but it works with a certain amount of fudge, is to just run the numbers with disregard to the pellet slowing down, like you did... but then run the numbers at the final velocity of the pellet at that distance... there are charts you can just pick from.. figure to 40 yards a 1500 fps will be around 800 fps or less ( just guessing here) So run that number and then you know its between the first run and second run...
make sense? You're lead of 1.8 feet there would be closer to 2.5 feet. Also ducks move a lot faster than 25 mph... probably at full tilt without the wind in excess of 50 or 60 mph. The lead for a fast 60 mph bird at 40 yards should be around 6 to 10 feet ahead of the beak. At the bird not the barrel. Use basic trig and the angle in degrees if you want to use the barrel as reference. ie.. bird is zero degrees and lead is 15 degrees off.. cool thing is this is relatively constant over changes in distance as long as bird speed and MV are constant. Drawing a picture helps too... lol. It gets crazy when you start thinking about how the wind affects the lead. Everything you know goes to crap.
Mugz.
I'm assuming both shots will slow down at roughly the same rate so that would just be a constant and could be thrown out of the equation for simplicity sake.
Sorry... both "shots"are the SAME shot. Just one is muzzle velocity(on the box) and the other is final velocity at the target. With the two points you can use very basic physics to give yourself a min and max lead. You know the lead is more than that calculated by muzzle velocity and less than that calculated with final velocity. It's not totally correct as the real answer lies somewhere in between... with out knowing the actual rate of deceleration, or air resistance for each pellet size and shape we use, as far as I know it's the easiest way to get a good idea of what lead should be other than just gaining more experience in the field. It's very much red-neck science here... and of course it's all based on a very huge variable which is the ducks flight speed. Part of why I like this method is that whole "in between" part that sort of makes up for your errors in judging the birds speed... and gives you a good excuse for when you miss.
Obviously if you were really into it you could look up all the formula and do it right.
Mugz.
When I say two shots I mean shot 1 being the regular shot at 1,450 fps and shot 2 being the hypersonic shot at 1,600 fps. Both will decelerate at roughly the same rate so that shouldn't factor into the equation to determine the difference in lead between the two.
Return to California Duck Hunting
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests