non lead rifle ammo

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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby JonD » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:04 pm

friedcoot wrote:The California condor is one of the world's rarest bird species: as of May 2013, population counts put the number of known condors at 435, including 237 living in the wild and 198 in captivity.
The Tule goose is a large, dark subspecies of the Greater White-fronted Goose. This form breeds just around Cook Inlet in Alaska, and numbers only about 7,500.
The Cackling Canada goose was considered extinct until a colony was discovered on Buldir Island in 1962. Since then, the Aleutian cackling goose has made a comeback and was removed from the endangered species list in 2001.

We can whine and complain but the bottom line is that changes have to be made and people need to adapt. Now we see dark geese everywhere. The Condor will recover, like the geese.


The Turkey Vulture, carrion eating bird of prey. Population steadily increasing since 1966, estimated breeding population of 18 million in North America. Apparently immune to lead poisoning

I'd be a lot more worried about wind turbines killing birds of prey in large number....Oh wait the government gives out permits for that. :huh:
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby QuackerSmacker498 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:44 pm

Great post JohnD!!! Just because the government tells us to do it doesn't mean they should.

Do I dare bring up gun control???? :huh:

Has it really fixed the problem?

Same concept, poor solution to the problem and the solution greatly affects the GOOD population. And with many of the government solutions, we will never get those rights/choices back as a society.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:47 pm

You can't compare the range and eating habits of the "california Condor" to that of a common turkey vulture. As an outdoorsman, I would think you would be bright enough to understand the biological difference. Condors do not have a sense of smell like the turkey vulture, they have a much smaller range than the turkey vulture, their digestive system is much stronger (acidic juice) than a turkey vulture leading to better break down of lead and thus higher concentrations in the blood.
Continue to believe that "the government" is out to destroy your right to hunt with lead. I believe they are trying to save the chance for my children's children to actually see a California condor in the wild . Hopefully ,while sitting on a deer stand waiting for a buck to be harvested with grandpa's .270 and copper rounds. :smile:
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby 7mllrds » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:55 am

friedcoot wrote:You can't compare the range and eating habits of the "california Condor" to that of a common turkey vulture. As an outdoorsman, I would think you would be bright enough to understand the biological difference. Condors do not have a sense of smell like the turkey vulture, they have a much smaller range than the turkey vulture, their digestive system is much stronger (acidic juice) than a turkey vulture leading to better break down of lead and thus higher concentrations in the blood.
Continue to believe that "the government" is out to destroy your right to hunt with lead. I believe they are trying to save the chance for my children's children to actually see a California condor in the wild . Hopefully ,while sitting on a deer stand waiting for a buck to be harvested with grandpa's .270 and copper rounds. :smile:

Have another cup of Kool-Aid.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:34 am

7mllrds wrote:

Have another cup of Kool-Aid.[/quote]

Thats your answer? How pathetic.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby JonD » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:22 pm

friedcoot wrote:You can't compare the range and eating habits of the "california Condor" to that of a common turkey vulture. As an outdoorsman, I would think you would be bright enough to understand the biological difference. Condors do not have a sense of smell like the turkey vulture, they have a much smaller range than the turkey vulture, their digestive system is much stronger (acidic juice) than a turkey vulture leading to better break down of lead and thus higher concentrations in the blood.
Continue to believe that "the government" is out to destroy your right to hunt with lead. I believe they are trying to save the chance for my children's children to actually see a California condor in the wild . Hopefully ,while sitting on a deer stand waiting for a buck to be harvested with grandpa's .270 and copper rounds. :smile:


Funny you should mention Condors have a much smaller range than the vulture. I did some "research" and it seems you actually couldn't use lead in Condor range since 2007. Game wardens in this lead ban area showed 99% compliance with this regulation (I know I got checked every time I hunted in this area) yet incidence of lead exposure and lead poisoning in Condors actually slightly increased. :huh: I guess I shouldn't compare their eating habits either as I've never witnessed a Condor eating a gut pile or varmints shot and left in the field but I have witnessed vultures do this many times so obviously these birds have much different eating habits :help:

I am way out of line to think the government doesn't know what's best. It's not like the government has given me many reasons to distrust it. Its not like the HSUS and several other extreme anti hunting groups where major backers of the lead ban bill. Yep nothing to question here. :fingerhead:

Even with the lead ban your grandchildren may never get to see a wild Condor, hopefully they will. Personally, I think Darwin has a pretty good theory(you know that whole survival of the fittest thing). Liberals are sure trying to prove him wrong though
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby QuackerSmacker498 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:44 pm

Did I open Pandora's Box?
I apologize to the original person who posted this thread for taking it to the next level and beyond the original scope of the post.

I'm just rustling feathers and stirin **** up! It makes for great conversation. And these discussions show how easy the government can pull the wool over your eyes and most people dont even think twice.

As to the supporters of non lead ammo. Can anyone of them provide some factual basis for their argument or is it just a bunch of smoke and mirror BS and feel good non sense

I don't know where JohnD got his information but he makes the best argument with statistical data to say the environmental impact study that supported the lead ban is bunch of crap. Less people using lead and more condors being exposed to lead....maybe the ground squirrels started mining lead and that's how more condors were exposed to lead even though 99% of hunters are shooting copper. :huh: .wait a second, sounds like the DFW/government just played you as a fool.

Tell your grandkids to look at a photo of the California Condor in the book next to the millions of other animals that went extinct.

Is the Koolaid grape or cherry, because I don't drink that crap. :welcome: :welcome: to reality!
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:04 pm

QuackerSmacker498 wrote:Tell your grandkids to look at a photo of the California Condor in the book next to the millions of other animals that went extinct.



It's Billions, but you just don't get it. Call me a kool aid drinker if it makes you tingle. I'm sure you feel the same about those tule elk and sea otters that are pumping millions into our States economy in just tourism. Your whining like the market hunters whined when they were told they were killing too many animals. You write like your not a sportsman, more like a shooter.My guess is you want to kill stuff and if you can't kill it, then why try to save it?
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby QuackerSmacker498 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:27 pm

I pay my taxes, hunting license fees, and donate some of my free time to refuge cleanup. I don't kill animals just because I can. Oh wait, I also take children out hunting and fishing to educate them about the outdoors. Not bad for a guy with two children of his own that works 70-80 hours a week.

In fact I raised two baby mallards that walked into my yard after my neighbor plowed his field this spring. The local agencies didn't want them and said I could keep them. So I raised them and one has flown off on his own. He's still in the area because he fly's by my house periodically. I must really want to kill animals. :huh:

Unfortunately, we can't stop evolution, some animals will go extinct due to natural selection, possibly the California Condor.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby JonD » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:44 pm

QuackerSmacker498 wrote:I pay my taxes, hunting license fees, and donate some of my free time to refuge cleanup. I don't kill animals just because I can. Oh wait, I also take children out hunting and fishing to educate them about the outdoors. Not bad for a guy with two children of his own that works 70-80 hours a week.

In fact I raised two baby mallards that walked into my yard after my neighbor plowed his field this spring. The local agencies didn't want them and said I could keep them. So I raised them and one has flown off on his own. He's still in the area because he fly's by my house periodically. I must really want to kill animals. :huh:

Unfortunately, we can't stop evolution, some animals will go extinct due to natural selection, possibly the California Condor.


I don't know where people get the idea that we are hoping for the Condor to go extinct just because we disagree with this law. I'm sure you are just like me in that we both are all for conservation of the California Condor but cannot condone the Condor being used as a pawn for liberal politicians and extreme anti hunting groups to further their anti hunting and anti gun agendas.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby quack-attack » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:32 pm

I have real mixed emotions on this. I dont think there is anyone that can say that lead is not very bad for us. Hell it is treated as a toxic substance and being phazed out of nearly every application it is used in, not just ammo. To think we would be exempt from that in perpituity would be naive. I am guessing we will work with the materials we are allowed. We will still hunt as we have and we will get by with considerable bitching and moaning of course. If people leave the sport because of the ban they are only spiteing themselves. I have been playing with the non lead loads for awhile (because I saw this day coming) and I have seen very little difference. (In fact I shot steel 7's for quail last year and it did very well.)
“A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise.” Aldo Leopold
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby 7mllrds » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:52 pm

friedcoot wrote:
7mllrds wrote:

Have another cup of Kool-Aid.


Thats your answer? How pathetic.[/quote]
Do a search. Your point has been disproven ad nauseum in prior threads. You're wrong and have been brainwashed along with countless other ignorant citizens who believe the crap they've been force-fed by the liberal tree-hugging agenda. Educate yourself on the facts rather than believing the crap you're told.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:49 pm

I found this. All these years I just thought it was old age.

Lead poisoning symptoms in adults

Although children are primarily at risk, lead poisoning is also dangerous for adults. Signs and symptoms in adults may include:

High blood pressure
Abdominal pain
Constipation
Joint pains
Muscle pain
Declines in mental functioning
Pain, numbness or tingling of the extremities
Headache
Memory loss
Mood disorders
Reduced sperm count, abnormal sperm
Miscarriage or premature birth in pregnant women
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby 7mllrds » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:15 am

Is that your excuse?
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:35 pm

What is lead poisoning?
Lead poisoning is a preventable condition that results from environmental exposure to lead. This exposure, indicated by elevated blood lead levels, can result in permanent health damage, especially among children. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 250,000 children in the United States between the ages of 1 and 5 years have blood lead levels that are higher than 10 micrograms per deciliter (mcg/dL), the concentration at which the CDC, until recently, had recommended public health measures be taken. This number will rise to 450,000 children as a result of the 2012 recommendation of the CDC's Advisory Committee on Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention (ACCLPP) to lower the blood lead level threshold to 5 mcg/dL, which the CDC accepted in May 2012. The recommendation was based on accumulating evidence of the detrimental health effects of even minute amounts of lead. It is hoped that lowering the threshold will impact efforts to address this public health problem, improving detection so that actions can be taken sooner.

Lead is a soft, corrosion-resistant metal that is present in small quantities throughout the environment. Prior to 1978, it was a major ingredient in household paints and gasoline, used in water pipes, used to solder canned foods, and put into pesticides that were used in orchards. While these uses have been banned in the United States and lead is much more carefully controlled, it is still used in more than 100 industries and a variety of hobbies.

Small particles of lead enter the body primarily through inhalation or ingestion of lead-laden dust. From the lungs or intestinal tract, the lead travels to the bloodstream and to organs throughout the body. The body then gradually moves lead from the blood and organs to the bones and teeth, where it may be stored for decades. About 94% of the lead in adults and 73% of that in children is eventually stored in the bones. To rid itself of lead, the body slowly takes it back out of the bones and excretes it in the urine and stool. Lead can also sometimes re-mobilize, moving back into the blood and organs when a bone is broken or during pregnancy. It can be passed from a mother to her unborn child and to an infant during breastfeeding. Women whose fetuses are exposed to lead may miscarry or have a premature delivery.

Lead poisoning can affect almost all parts of the body, but its effects are most pronounced on the central nervous system and kidneys. Lead can impair cognitive development, which can lead to learning disabilities and behavioral problems. Acute lead exposure can cause encephalopathy, severe abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, coma, seizures, and in some cases death. Chronic exposure can cause weakness, prolonged abdominal pain, anemia, nausea, weight loss, fatigue, headache, and loss of cognitive function. Chronic, low-level lead exposure can be asymptomatic until kidney function starts to deteriorate.

The degree to which a person experiences lead poisoning depends on their age, the amount they are exposed to, the time period they are exposed to excessive amounts, and their own health and nutritional state. Those who are iron deficient or malnourished, for instance, are more vulnerable to increased lead absorption.

Housing built prior to 1978 is likely to contain lead-based paint and lead-contaminated household dust, especially if the house was built prior to 1950. Soil surrounding these houses may also be contaminated with lead and be a source of exposure. According to the CDC, about 24 million housing units in the United States have leaded paint and lead-contaminated house dust. Of these, about 4 million homes have one or more young children living in them.

Children less than 6 years of age are the most likely to be exposed to lead because of their increased hand-to-mouth behavior and high absorption rates. The lead gets into their bodies by their ingesting lead dust or paint chips, inhaling dust, mouthing or chewing items that contain lead or have been contaminated by lead, and/or by eating contaminated food or water.

Adult lead exposure is usually related to occupational or recreational (hobby) exposure. Children and spouses of those who work with lead may become exposed when lead contamination is brought home on the work clothes of the employee.

Work settings where lead exposure is possible

Lead smelting
Construction work
Steel welding
Bridge reconstruction
Firing range instruction and cleaners
Remodeling and refinishing
Foundry work
Scrap metal recycling
Auto repair work
Cable splicing
Hobbies where lead exposure is possible

Casting bullets or fishing sinkers
Remodeling a home built before 1978
Target shooting at firing ranges
Lead soldering
Auto repair work
Stained glass work
Glazed pottery work
Painting with artistic pigments
Some folk remedies, health foods, nutritional supplements, cosmetics, costume jewelry, toys, and canned foods imported from other countries may contain lead. Doctors should consider screening people, especially children, who are immigrants, refugees, or who are adopted from other countries as they are at an increased risk for excessive lead exposure.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby 7mllrds » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:37 pm

Yeah, so what, chicken little? As a reloader, consumer of lead-shot birds/mammals, fisherman, and target shooter, I guess I should have my serum Pb level checked. Oh wait, I did! It was 0. We all know what lead poisoning is. What has never been proven is the link between the decline in the condor population and ingestion of lead as a result of carrion from hunters bullets. Here's plenty of factual information to keep you occupied for a while:

http://www.huntfortruth.org/
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby JonD » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:52 pm

I have google too:

This article discusses poisoning from copper.

This is for information only and not for use in the treatment or management of an actual poison exposure. If you have an exposure, you should call your local emergency number (such as 911) or a local poison control center at 1-800-222-1222.


Poisonous Ingredient

Copper


Where Found

•Certain coins - all pennies in the U.S. made before 1982 contained copper


•Certain insecticides and fungicides


•Copper wire


•Some aquarium products


•Vitamin and mineral supplements (copper is an essential micronutrient, but too much can be deadly)


Note: This list may not be all inclusive.


Symptoms

Swallowing copper may cause vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, and yellow skin (jaundice). Touching large amounts of copper can result in hair discoloration (green).

Symptoms may include:

•Anemia


•Burning sensation


•Chills


•Convulsions


•Diarrhea (often bloody and may be blue in color)


•Fever


•Liver failure


•Metallic taste


•Muscular aches


•Nausea


•No urine output


•Pain


•Shock


•Vomiting


•Weakness


•Yellow eyes


•Yellow skin



Home Treatment

Seek immediate medical help. DO NOT make a person throw up unless told to do so by Poison Control or a health care professional.


Before Calling Emergency

Determine the following information:

•The patient's age, weight, and condition


•The name of the product (and ingredients and strengths, if known)


•The time it was swallowed


•The amount swallowed



Poison Control, or a local emergency number

In the United States, call 1-800-222-1222 to speak with a local poison control center. This hotline number will let you talk to experts in poisoning. They will give you further instructions.

This is a free and confidential service. You should call if you have any questions about poisoning or poison prevention. It does NOT need to be an emergency. You can call for any reason, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

See: Poison control center - emergency number


What to expect at the emergency room

The health care provider will measure and monitor the patient's vital signs, including temperature, pulse, breathing rate, and blood pressure. Symptoms will be treated as appropriate. The patient may receive:

•Activated charcoal


•A nasogastric (NG) tube thru the nose into the stomach to empty the stomach (gastric lavage)


•Dialysis


•Medicine (dimercaprol or penicillamine) to reverse the effect of the poison



Expectations (prognosis)

Sudden (acute) copper poisoning is rarely seen. However, serious long-term health problems, including liver failure and death, can occur with significant poisonings.

If toxicity is due to long-time accumulation, the ultimate outcome depends how much damage there is to body organs.


References
1.Jones AL, Dargan PI. Hepatic toxicology. In: Shannon MW, Borron SW, Burns MJ, eds. Haddad and Winchester's Clinical Management of Poisoning and Drug Overdose. 4th ed. Philadelphia, Pa: Saunders Elsevier; 2007:chap 11.
2.Hall AH, Shannon MW. Other heavy metals. In: Shannon MW, Borron SW, Burns MJ, eds. Haddad and Winchester's Clinical Management of Poisoning and Drug Overdose. 4th ed. Philadelphia, Pa: Saunders Elsevier; 2007:chap 7
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:20 pm

Lead and copper enter drinking water primarily through plumbing materials. Exposure to lead and copper may cause health problems ranging from stomach distress to brain damage. On June 7, 1991, EPA published a regulation to control lead and copper in drinking water. This regulation is known as the Lead and Copper Rule (also referred to as the LCR or 1991 Rule).

The treatment technique for the rule requires systems to monitor drinking water at customer taps. If lead concentrations exceed an action level of 15 ppb or copper concentrations exceed an action level of 1.3 ppm in more than 10% of customer taps sampled, the system must undertake a number of additional actions to control corrosion. If the action level for lead is exceeded, the system must also inform the public about steps they should take to protect their health and may have to replace lead service lines under their control.

no references just Plagiarism.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:35 pm

7mllrds wrote:Yeah, so what, chicken little? As a reloader, consumer of lead-shot birds/mammals, fisherman, and target shooter, I guess I should have my serum Pb level checked. Oh wait, I did! It was 0. We all know what lead poisoning is. What has never been proven is the link between the decline in the condor population and ingestion of lead as a result of carrion from hunters bullets. Here's plenty of factual information to keep you occupied for a while:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/0 ... cla/195299



seems legit.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby 7mllrds » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:30 pm

friedcoot wrote:
7mllrds wrote:Yeah, so what, chicken little? As a reloader, consumer of lead-shot birds/mammals, fisherman, and target shooter, I guess I should have my serum Pb level checked. Oh wait, I did! It was 0. We all know what lead poisoning is. What has never been proven is the link between the decline in the condor population and ingestion of lead as a result of carrion from hunters bullets. Here's plenty of factual information to keep you occupied for a while:
http://www.huntfortruth.org/



seems legit.

Fixed it for ya'. Just a warning--don't edit my quotes again.

Seriously though, that's the best you can do? That's like asking Obama and Al Gore to "critique" literature disputing Global Warming.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby JonD » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:16 pm

friedcoot wrote:
7mllrds wrote:Yeah, so what, chicken little? As a reloader, consumer of lead-shot birds/mammals, fisherman, and target shooter, I guess I should have my serum Pb level checked. Oh wait, I did! It was 0. We all know what lead poisoning is. What has never been proven is the link between the decline in the condor population and ingestion of lead as a result of carrion from hunters bullets. Here's plenty of factual information to keep you occupied for a while:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/0 ... cla/195299



seems legit.

I bet it seems legit to you but it's just liberal propaganda

Excerpts from media matters file:

" Lead ammunition is, therefore, the principal, and only plausible, documented source of lead exposure in condors. The Church et al. (2006) study underwent rigorous scientific peer review in the publication process for Environmental Science and Technology. This publication is an American Chemical Society journal and one of the top-ranked scientific journals in the areas of environmental chemistry and environmental toxicology. [Statement of Scientific Agreement, 7/10/07, emphasis original]"

"For other major categories of lead consumption, such as lead batteries and sheet lead/lead pipes, environmental discharge and disposal are regulated. Therefore, leadbased ammunition is likely the greatest largely unregulated source of lead that is knowingly discharged into the environment in the United States. In contrast, the release or distribution of other major sources of environmental lead contamination (e.g., leaded gasoline, lead-based paint, lead solder) have been substantially regulated and reduced since the mid-1970s"

Eyewitness account taken from Hunt for Truth:

"One such noted exposure to an alternative source of lead in the environment was discovered at Pinnacles National Monument, where condors # 317 and 318 were observed ingesting lead paint fragments from the North Chalone Fire Lookout Tower. In turn, these parents fed the regurgitated lead paint fragments to their fledgling (# 550). Condors # 317, 318 and 550 were all tested and found to have high blood-lead levels, while # 550 had to be evacuated to the Los Angeles Zoo for intense treatment for lead poisoning."

Haha move along nothing to see here :help:


Also found it laughable how the media matters article skirted this little issue:

"The purported link between the use of lead ammunition and the poisoning and/or mortality in condors is further weakened by the failure of California’s lead ban to successfully combat lead poisoning in wildlife. Assembly Bill (AB) 821 was passed out by the California Legislature on September 5, 2007 and enrolled September 10, 2007. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed AB 821 on October 13, 2007, just after the Concord Fish and Game Commission hearing which banned the use of lead centerfire ammunition while hunting big game in the condor range. The bill was predicated and passed on its proponents’ assurances that hunters’ lead ammunition was the cause of lead related poisoning and deaths in California condors.

Since the passage of AB 821, the California Department of Fish and Game wardens have surveyed the types of ammunition used by hunters in the Condor Zones during hunting season, where the use of lead ammunition is banned. Despite 98.89% hunter compliance with AB 821, the 2009, 2010, and 2011 condor blood-lead data, collected by the Condor Recovery Program in California, shows that the incidence of lead exposure and poisoning in condors remains static and actually increased slightly."

This also alarmed me. Now you Socialists are making me buy other hunters ammo?

"To the extent that funding is available, the commission shall establish a process that will provide hunters with nonlead ammunition at no or reduced charge. The process shall provide that the offer for nonlead ammunition at no or reduced charge may be redeemed through a coupon sent to a permitholder with the appropriate permit tag. If available funding is not sufficient to provide nonlead ammunition at no charge, the commission shall set the value of the reduced charge coupon at the maximum value possible through available funding, up to the average cost within this state for nonlead ammunition, as determined by the commission." [A.B. 711, accessed 8/7/13]

:fingerhead:
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:18 pm

7mllrds wrote:Y What has never been proven is the link between the decline in the condor population and ingestion of lead as a result of carrion from hunters bullets.


Yes and OJ was innocent.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby 7mllrds » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:44 am

Thank you Jon. But, like many of this forum, I suspect we're wasting our time with the likes of friedbraincoot. He's obviously another victim of the liberal propaganda war like many others in this country and some on this forum who choose to remain ignorant and believe the crap they are force fed rather than investigate the truth themselves and educate themselves on the facts. The Media Matters website is a joke. They have no more capability of analyzing studies for veracity and truthfulness than a kindergartener. They basically just regurgitate the liberal argument which has already been dis-proven. I don't see them "critiquing" the "studies" themselves. Why not? Because they're incapable.
Let me guess, fried--are you a college student or a recent graduate?
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby friedcoot » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:47 am

friedcoot wrote:
7mllrds wrote:Y What has never been proven is the link between the decline in the condor population and ingestion of lead as a result of carrion from hunters bullets.


Yes and OJ was innocent.


Hey you got your answer of approval. You know theres lead out there in non natural locations, you know lead is toxic, you know that there is plenty of lead "residue options" for animals to come across (wheel weights, paint chips, fishing tackle, spent ammo, roof flashing, etc.) and you know that most industries have stopped using lead in their products. Yet,as a "conservationist and ethical hunter", you continue to believe that it is ok to leave deposits of lead in unnatural locations where wild and domestic animals have access because there's no "proof" that it harms condors.

I've certainly dispatched my fair share of ground squirrels with both lead projectiles and shot. Never picked them up. Was always told " something will eat them". I'm sure you heard the same. But, you still believe that the animals who eat that dead carrion are not going to get enough lead in their bodies to make a difference? Do we really need a college background, scientific studies, politicians, 2nd Amendment right organizations, medical groups, government agencies, and private industries (including agriculture) telling us what we are able to observe with our own eyes ? That lead does not go away. It does accumulate in the body.
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Re: non lead rifle ammo

Postby Dr. RX » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:52 pm

Hey sjr duck Hunter..

Last year my brother and I got 2 mulies in an x zone..2 shots 2 kills using e -tip by nosler..no need to use lead anymore...very leathal bullet..stop them dead on tracks.

Pm if you need specs

Kris
Dr. RX
hunter
 
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