"hybrid blacks"

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"hybrid blacks"

Postby captmike69 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:29 pm

its my understanding that there is no limit on hybrid ducks. you can shoot 6 hybrids for your 6 bird limit. my question is, how "hybrid" does a black/mallard cross have to be to be considered a hybrid and not a black? we shot a couple today that were clearly not pure bred blacks. one had green tint in the head and butt and a slight brown chest and lighter belly like a drake mallard and another had a lighter breast with more hen like feathers then a true black. being a 1 black a day limit, this makes things tough. i have noticed a lot more blacks this early in the season then past seasons. i have seen black/mallard crosses that are much more prominent showing mallard then these. i just dont feel like getting into a pinch over something arguable. what do you guys think
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby ctdeathfrombelow » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:04 pm

We shot one this morning. I am not too sure about the limit being changed for hybrids though. if I were DEEP I would go by what is more prominent on the bird, since there is no statement on how they are counted in any of the waterfowl regs, federal or state.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby decoy241 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:15 pm

Shot 1 the other day that had the head and feet of a black but body of drake mallard. According to a c.o. If there's any trace of mallard then it's a mallard. Honestly theresprobably very few true black ducks out there
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby captmike69 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:58 pm

ctdeathfrombelow wrote:We shot one this morning. I am not too sure about the limit being changed for hybrids though. if I were DEEP I would go by what is more prominent on the bird, since there is no statement on how they are counted in any of the waterfowl regs, federal or state.


a hybrid is not classified as any one type of bird. i have spoken to deep and several other people that have spoken to deep as well and they all said a hybrid is just classified as a duck but not any one specific species. and since there is no limit on hybrids, you are allowed six. i just dont know what is classed as a "hybrid".
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby STEELrainCT » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:24 pm

A hybrid black is considered whatever it is crossed as...if it has green on the head then it counts as part of a mallard limit...this is what my buddy told me and he got the info from a dep officer a couple years ago.
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Re: Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby Eric Haynes » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:18 pm

STEELrainCT wrote:A hybrid black is considered whatever it is crossed as...if it has green on the head then it counts as part of a mallard limit...this is what my buddy told me and he got the info from a dep officer a couple years ago.

This is 100% wrong and bad info. A hybrid is a duck, plain and simple. A black/mallard is a hybrid, it is not counted as a black or a mallard...ever, never has. They just count towards your 6 bird limit. DEC wants these birds out of the population.
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Re: Re:

Postby toolmaker » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:32 am

Eric Haynes wrote:
STEELrainCT wrote:A hybrid black is considered whatever it is crossed as...if it has green on the head then it counts as part of a mallard limit...this is what my buddy told me and he got the info from a dep officer a couple years ago.

This is 100% wrong and bad info. A hybrid is a duck, plain and simple. A black/mallard is a hybrid, it is not counted as a black or a mallard...ever, never has. They just count towards your 6 bird limit. DEC wants these birds out of the population.



NY DEC ..........CT DEEP... two different animals!!!

then throw in some CO who has his own mind how to inforce laws..and you got more mumbo jumbo.

but I have heard it legally ,that a hybrid is an "other" duck, one of those no specifically listed because you can shoot 6.
the only ducks specifically listed in the syllabys are those that have limits of less than 6 for the species.

I am sure after you get the ticket and you hire a $3000 attorney and go to court three times, you can PROVE it, that you are allowed to shoot 6 hybrids a day.

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Re: Re: Re:

Postby Eric Haynes » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:55 am

toolmaker wrote:
Eric Haynes wrote:
STEELrainCT wrote:A hybrid black is considered whatever it is crossed as...if it has green on the head then it counts as part of a mallard limit...this is what my buddy told me and he got the info from a dep officer a couple years ago.

This is 100% wrong and bad info. A hybrid is a duck, plain and simple. A black/mallard is a hybrid, it is not counted as a black or a mallard...ever, never has. They just count towards your 6 bird limit. DEC wants these birds out of the population.



NY DEC ..........CT DEEP... two different animals!!!

then throw in some CO who has his own mind how to inforce laws..and you got more mumbo jumbo.

but I have heard it legally ,that a hybrid is an "other" duck, one of those no specifically listed because you can shoot 6.
the only ducks specifically listed in the syllabys are those that have limits of less than 6 for the species.

I am sure after you get the ticket and you hire a $3000 attorney and go to court three times, you can PROVE it, that you are allowed to shoot 6 hybrids a day.

the tool

The whole hybrid bag limit deal is federal, not state. If you are professional when you speak to the officer and show what makes it a hybrid, I am willing to bet they will side with you. Now if you are a grumpy butt and try to argue, things aren't going to go your way. Maybe the officers here are different, but the WMA I hunted earlier this year you have to show your birds at the checkout. My black was an other duck due to the white bar on the bottom of the speculum. He agreed without hesitation. I only had one anyways, but he didn't feel inclinded to argue it was a black. He wrote it down as "Other-unidentifiable"
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Re: Re: Re:

Postby toolmaker » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:47 am

Eric Haynes wrote:
toolmaker wrote:
Eric Haynes wrote:
STEELrainCT wrote:A hybrid black is considered whatever it is crossed as...if it has green on the head then it counts as part of a mallard limit...this is what my buddy told me and he got the info from a dep officer a couple years ago.

This is 100% wrong and bad info. A hybrid is a duck, plain and simple. A black/mallard is a hybrid, it is not counted as a black or a mallard...ever, never has. They just count towards your 6 bird limit. DEC wants these birds out of the population.



NY DEC ..........CT DEEP... two different animals!!!

then throw in some CO who has his own mind how to inforce laws..and you got more mumbo jumbo.

but I have heard it legally ,that a hybrid is an "other" duck, one of those no specifically listed because you can shoot 6.
the only ducks specifically listed in the syllabys are those that have limits of less than 6 for the species.

I am sure after you get the ticket and you hire a $3000 attorney and go to court three times, you can PROVE it, that you are allowed to shoot 6 hybrids a day.

the tool

The whole hybrid bag limit deal is federal, not state. If you are professional when you speak to the officer and show what makes it a hybrid, I am willing to bet they will side with you. Now if you are a grumpy butt and try to argue, things aren't going to go your way. Maybe the officers here are different, but the WMA I hunted earlier this year you have to show your birds at the checkout. My black was an other duck due to the white bar on the bottom of the speculum. He agreed without hesitation. I only had one anyways, but he didn't feel inclinded to argue it was a black. He wrote it down as "Other-unidentifiable"


you need to deal with some CT COs.............ny COs are way laid back and easy to get along with..(at least the ones i have met)

many CT co's assume you have committed a crime and its their job to figure out what it was.....


i see the federal warden a few times a year in CT..i thin ill put this question to him and see what his reply is.

of course that does nothing to prevent a CT co from issueing a ticket the very next day for the same thing.

and you are right..how you interact with the COs goes a long way to making everything pan out good......BUT its NOT A SURE THING...........

its like there is a quota in CT.....

Ill get checked once a year maybe in NY

i get checked almost EVERY trip in CT

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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby STEELrainCT » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:00 am

Im not saying what i said was right it was just something i was told and thats how ive been counting them in my bag limit.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby WhatIsDucky? » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:40 pm

We had this extensive debate in RI. Whatever you identify the bird as on wing, that's what it will count for (one or two white bars). My experience is more often than not it counts as a black. I'm sure they would love to get these birds out of the population but that does not open the doors for a 6 bird limit. Besides, if you can't tell what it is before you shoot it, you probably shouldn't be taking the shot.
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Re: Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby Eric Haynes » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:27 pm

WhatIsDucky? wrote:We had this extensive debate in RI. Whatever you identify the bird as on wing, that's what it will count for (one or two white bars). My experience is more often than not it counts as a black. I'm sure they would love to get these birds out of the population but that does not open the doors for a 6 bird limit. Besides, if you can't tell what it is before you shoot it, you probably shouldn't be taking the shot.

I don't shoot what I can't id. A black duck with a white bar on the speculum is pretty easy to point out. It does not count as a black. No debate to think about, it is an other duck.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby toolmaker » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:13 pm

I dont have the gonads to call a black duck with One "a little too prominent" white bar on the wing,,,, an OTHER duck, to the game warden... and i usually think I got plenty of gonads...

if its got too much green in the head or rusty breast feathers....or a light brown belly and two white wing bars....no problem

if i shoot the first "black" and its a pure black...then i dont shoot at blacks hoping for "hybrids" thats for sure....if it is an OBVIOUS hybrid, then blacks are back on the menu for me!!

all this hybrid talk is why i try to shoot 6 widgeon or 6 drake golden eye all the time!!!! :biggrin:
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Re: Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby Eric Haynes » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:04 pm

toolmaker wrote:I dont have the gonads to call a black duck with One "a little too prominent" white bar on the wing,,,, an OTHER duck, to the game warden... and i usually think I got plenty of gonads...

if its got too much green in the head or rusty breast feathers....or a light brown belly and two white wing bars....no problem

if i shoot the first "black" and its a pure black...then i dont shoot at blacks hoping for "hybrids" thats for sure....if it is an OBVIOUS hybrid, then blacks are back on the menu for me!!

all this hybrid talk is why i try to shoot 6 widgeon or 6 drake golden eye all the time!!!! :biggrin:

Ive only ever shot three hybrids, and never saw any othe blacks those days anyways.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby drake176 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:35 am

every CO i have ever talked to says that ANY hybrid bird counts against your mallard limit
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Re: Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby Eric Haynes » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:47 am

drake176 wrote:every CO i have ever talked to says that ANY hybrid bird counts against your mallard limit

Every CO you've ever talked to knows nothing about waterfowl and I would report them.
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Re: Re:

Postby toolmaker » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:21 am

Eric Haynes wrote:
drake176 wrote:every CO i have ever talked to says that ANY hybrid bird counts against your mallard limit

Every CO you've ever talked to knows nothing about waterfowl and I would report them.



I asked at the western district headquarters about hunting permit required property before the small game opener.....( BEFORE they issued permits!!) when they first moved the duck season back before the small game opener.

the guy said ..NO!!!!I questioned him about it,he said no you cannot...but.... hed check

????????? :huh: :huh:


well a week later i called back and found out it was OK....

but like usual, the CO's just give the easy denial...so they dont have to deal with you!!!

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Re: Re: Re:

Postby Eric Haynes » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:30 pm

toolmaker wrote:
Eric Haynes wrote:
drake176 wrote:every CO i have ever talked to says that ANY hybrid bird counts against your mallard limit

Every CO you've ever talked to knows nothing about waterfowl and I would report them.



I asked at the western district headquarters about hunting permit required property before the small game opener.....( BEFORE they issued permits!!) when they first moved the duck season back before the small game opener.

the guy said ..NO!!!!I questioned him about it,he said no you cannot...but.... hed check

????????? :huh: :huh:


well a week later i called back and found out it was OK....

but like usual, the CO's just give the easy denial...so they dont have to deal with you!!!

the tool

Yup and all it takes is someone dumber than them to believe it.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby quacksmacker1 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:40 pm

it doesnt matter what kind of hybrid you shoot, if its a mallard/black or black/mallard.. If you do shoot a "hybrid" the correct way to classify and count what it is in your bag limit is by the wing. If you shoot a black duck with mallard wings then it counts toward your mallard limit, and if you shoot a mallard with black duck wing then it counts toward your black duck limit and you will not me able to shoot another black duck.. It doesnt matter what the body looks like it matter what the wing looks like.. hope this helps
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby ctdeathfrombelow » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:24 pm

quacksmacker1 wrote:it doesnt matter what kind of hybrid you shoot, if its a mallard/black or black/mallard.. If you do shoot a "hybrid" the correct way to classify and count what it is in your bag limit is by the wing. If you shoot a black duck with mallard wings then it counts toward your mallard limit, and if you shoot a mallard with black duck wing then it counts toward your black duck limit and you will not me able to shoot another black duck.. It doesnt matter what the body looks like it matter what the wing looks like.. hope this helps


First, :welcome: to DHC!
Second, I'm not saying your wrong by any means but how do you know??? Each person on here has pretty much a different idea on the subject and I've yet to hear an official ruling on it myself.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby GuitarPlayer » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:26 pm

If I shoot a hybrid, I'll count it as what it appears to be at first glance.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby drake176 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:30 am

seems like its more of a grey area than anything.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby quacksmacker1 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:55 pm

I worked with the USFWS service and how we classified waterfowl were by there wings... Its like anything else you tell a duck by the characteristics by the body, but overall the wing, the wing speculum on the bird sums up what the species is. In the regulatiuons is states that if you dress a bird in the field you must keep a wing (s) with the breast of the duck. THe wing tells the warden what kind of duck you shot therefor if you shoot a hybrid the wings classify's what species you shot.
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"hybrid blacks"

Postby troutman561 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:47 pm

We have this same issue with Florida mottled/ domestic mallard hybrids. Unfortunately there are more hybrids these days. The wing is how I have been told to ID. Of course it always helps if there are curled tail feathers and green tint on the head.
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Re: "hybrid blacks"

Postby duckstopper333 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:32 pm

Just going through some of this year's pictures. We weren't in CT, but my partner counted this bird as his black duck although in CT I'd count it as an "other".

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