How to Prevent Skybusting

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How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby zack and drake » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:50 pm

I have hunted in Fl for the past 8 seasons and have watched the numbers of hunters grow greatly which is great for the sport. The bad part is I have watched the numbers of unethical hunters grow to where it is almost impossible not to be set up on or have a hunt ruined by people skybusting and pushing birds out. Well here is the only way I think we can prevent all the newbies and hunters that dont know what they are doing, second guess making shots that are not ethical and out of range shots. A lot of the new hunters have no clue what a decoying bird is or what the range of their shotgun is. Here is what I think we as a waterfowling group and ethical hunters should push for as a rule on all public waterfowl wmas. I think each hunter should be limited to 1 box of shells per hunter. What do we need to do to get this accomplished and how many people agree with me on this. We have all had the days where you cant hit the broadside of a barn and could shoot over a box but I think on those days you should stop and take your time which this will help. I also believe people that are shooting 2-4 boxes per hunt and only killing a few birds will think twice about what they are shooting at and how high the bird is. I think this would be a great help to our wonderful sport and help a ton with the skybusting. I am just trying to think of a way to make the hunting more enjoyable for everyone that puts the work in and has been doing it for years in my opinion the right way letting the birds work to the dekes and getting the birds in range. Lets get this in motion if the majority agrees and try to get this a statewide statue. I know people will still sneak in extras but a hefty 100-200 dollar ticket 1 or 2 times might detour them from doing it again. Post what you think and we can get a idea for what we need to do and if you think it will help. The only exception to the rule could be youth under 16 could have 40-50 shells instead of 25. But Im just one guy that loves duck hunting and believe that this would help our sport out a lot. It may limit some people from shooting a limit but you can always borrow your hunting buddies unshot shells. This will also greatly decrease the number of wounded and crippled birds more than you could ever imagine. A ton of birds that are shot out of range die a slow miserable death of infection/ gang green or getting eaten alive after they cant fly or swim away from predators.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby ducks'r'us » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:30 am

I know exactly what you're saying and im not arguing one way or the other but i must ask, what part of fl are you in? Im in north FL and i thought for sure we had the biggest group of unethical unlawful Hunters in the state but i have yet to see anyone shoot more than a box in a hunt. HeII im still on my second box from early season but what can i say, i like seeing wings straight and feet down before i shoot. But back to your idea, i think its as much of these skybusting fools not understanding that if they are patient the birds will actually go to their fancy decoys their rich parents bought them, and if they would keep their call on their lanyard a little more than in their mouth we all might be better off. So in conclusion i think that i am a supporter of your plan but if we give the state that much control they'll be controlling how many decoys we can use and how many times we can hit our calls. But all we can do is be better than this new duck dynasty group and hunter better and work harder than them which in my part of the hills up here isn't too hard to do.
Happy hunting and hopefully these oxygen Hunters won't know there's two parts to the season :thumbsup:
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby tknight006 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:54 am

While I do like the idea... I don't think that it would ever pass in a million years.. I'm not debating it, I just don't think that enough folks would sign off on it.

I used to think that people spent more time exaggerating stories of skybusters, and people setting up next to them... However, I have seen so much of it take place during this first split, that it just makes me shake my head.

Opening morning in guana, my buddy and I had a guy come in much later than us, and he literally set up 50-60 yards behind us.... I'm not one to argue right before shooting time, so I let it play out. It ended up working out, because he set up with his back to us, so we never had to really worry. We spoke about it at the ramp, and it was all fine in the end... he was a rather new hunter and just didn't realize how close he was until the sun came up.
This past saturday, I had to pick up and move because I got peppered in the face.... Again, I'm not gonna waste time arguing with them, it was just faster to up and move....

Skyblasting has me baffled though... I don't even understand it.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby 12341234 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:16 pm

I like it in some of our wma's in sc there is a one box maximum.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby quackhunter99 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:15 pm

Just one of the many problems i see is cripples. Ive folded divers while they were decoying right over my decoys, but as soon as he sticks his head up he starts the swim and dive process. Divers are very tough ducks. Ive spent 10-15 shells chasing wounded divers trying to get a kill shot in them. Thats just one problem i see
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby Belly up dux » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:28 am

I can see where you are upset, but that won't change as people see stuff and think that they can do it. Let me explain, people started watching Swamp People and thought that they could go catch gators. There were more people applying this year than ever. I had people asking me to take them to go gator hunting and asking what kind of GUN they should use. I told them that guns are not allwed and explained the rules and how much work it really is. Permits were hard to come by in some areas where you used to be almost a sure draw. Now on to duck hunting, there is a show again that has brought people out of the woodwork for duck hunting. I seen at least 4 groups on the opener that has greenhead deks set out and watched as they kept the ammo makers in business. I laughed when 3 guys had at least 20 teal feet down and jumped up and emptied their guns and never cut a feather. They shot at every duck that came over them, or at least the ones they seen. It didn't matter how high. Someone also was shooting without a plug. 5 shots in an automatic is easy to pick out when they are acting like an anti-aircraft gunner. I believe it will last a few seasons and then they will clear out leaving it back to the true hunters. In the mean time we will just have to scout more and tough it out.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby Ichabod97 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:02 am

Honestly i don't see why that idea couldn't work. There is already 1 WMA in the state that abides by that law and that is Merritt Island.

Last week when i was in town, got to accompany Belly up dux on a hunt. I was there to witness most of what he is talking about in his post. Lots of skybusting, couple guys shooting without a plug as well. We also found birds on our way back in that were out in the open water!

Hefty fines for some of the things discussed would help bring it to a stop. It would take some serious work from Mr. Green Jeans though to enforce it. I can honestly say that i have never seen a GW on the water in the WMA's i hunted in FL, they were always at the boat ramp. I have seen the GW's up here on the water in VA and have also watched them perform checks and issue citations.

Perhaps limiting hunters to 25 shells would help, but i also think the presence of a GW in a couple WMA's might help as well.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby DUCK-DAWG » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:01 pm

Ok, seeing as how there's already one WMA that abides by that rule, let me ask you this...is there noticeably less skybusting at Merritt Island than at other places around the state?

Ichabod, not a personal attack, just genuinely curious...
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby Ichabod97 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:36 pm

DUCK-DAWG wrote:Ok, seeing as how there's already one WMA that abides by that rule, let me ask you this...is there noticeably less skybusting at Merritt Island than at other places around the state?

Ichabod, not a personal attack, just genuinely curious...



I've personally never hunted there, but hunt-chessies has...maybe he will chime in here.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby SouthernWingsAssaultTeam » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:27 pm

I think a shell limit would do some good maybe not do away with it completely, I also think there should be a 4 am rule on sum of the north fla public lands. It's getting ridiculous at my home lake there are ppl out there two days in advance with decoys out and guns and ammo in their possession.I really think that anytime we as duck hunters talk to others about duck hunting or other duck hunters we need to really press the public land Ed. ,if everybody would be respectful enough to not set up on top of one another that would help a ton.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby waterdogds » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:04 am

SouthernWingsAssaultTeam wrote:I think a shell limit would do some good maybe not do away with it completely, I also think there should be a 4 am rule on sum of the north fla public lands. It's getting ridiculous at my home lake there are ppl out there two days in advance with decoys out and guns and ammo in their possession.I really think that anytime we as duck hunters talk to others about duck hunting or other duck hunters we need to really press the public land Ed. ,if everybody would be respectful enough to not set up on top of one another that would help a ton.


I agree that it's ridiculous how people camp out at the spots they intend to hunt. However, if you were to make a 4 am rule, could you imagine the chaos that would be going on at the ramp. I'd be willing to bet this would create new problems and some seriously heated arguments at the ramp. This would only encourage people to start lining up trucks at the ramp. Maybe these skybusters will take note that thier weapon isn't effective at the range they're trying to shoot and change on thier own. Maybe.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby Ichabod97 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:29 am

waterdogds wrote:This would only encourage people to start lining up trucks at the ramp.


Funny you mention this as well...it already happens at the 2 Northern FL WMA's i hunt. One of them, people camp out a day or so ahead of the weekend hunts. Opening days are even worse. Once they let you in, then it is a mad rush to get your boat in the water and haul *** to get your spot.

The Chaos of duck hunting in FL...got to love it. :thumbsup:
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby DUCK-DAWG » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:03 am

I understand that some guys have work and family issues that prevent them from getting out to the lake as early as some, but if I've been out scouting for weeks, found a spot that consistently holds birds, and want to be the first one in that spot, why should I have to wait until 4am to launch my boat and head out? Why is it ridiculous that someone would want to camp out on the lake to better their odds of getting a certain spot?
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby ffrodelgnim » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:03 am

lead shells would solve every problem. No injured birds, longer shots hit, they are just the best. I have used them many times in argentina and mexico and my God are they better. I must say I would never resort myself to one box because I want my limit and am gonna do what it takes. However, where I hunt here or in texas, nobody is on my property duck hunting cause I am on private property.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby waterdogds » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:02 am

DUCK-DAWG wrote:I understand that some guys have work and family issues that prevent them from getting out to the lake as early as some, but if I've been out scouting for weeks, found a spot that consistently holds birds, and want to be the first one in that spot, why should I have to wait until 4am to launch my boat and head out? Why is it ridiculous that someone would want to camp out on the lake to better their odds of getting a certain spot?


I've learned over these last few seasons that certain things are worthy of extra effort. Sleeping in my boat in order to beat someone to a spot is something I feel is a bit overboard. I've also come to the realization that there's more hunters during early teal and openers than were have areas to hunt. It's this type of territorial crap that's made permanent blinds a thing of the past. Instead of a group of guys getting together and agreeing on some mutual terms, they bicker and carry on like women fighting over the last handbag in the store. I get it, some guys will stop at nothing to hold down thier spot. If there's that much competition on a particular lake for me to notice and feel as if I have to stay overnight to ensure I'm the only boat there come morning. I'll pass and go somewhere else. That's the part I don't understand. Is it like fishing? The more people you see the better.

"Oh man, look at all the trucks at the ramp. There must be thousands of birds here. Hurry, we have to launch the boat and hold down a spot. You brought the spotlight, right".

I've learned how to combat this. Don't plan on hunting any of these zoos before December 20th. I find it amusing that this sort of thing is considered the norm and the hard work of a committed duck hunter. It's just about as ridiculous as what some folks go through on black friday to buy a T.V. or phone. Just my opinion. Carry on with what you feel is necessary to have an enjoyable hunt, that's my goal.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby DUCK-DAWG » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:13 am

It's not always necessary...hell, it's not even USUALLY necessary, but there are certain occasions(opening mornings in particular) that I feel justify spending the night on the lake. Even if I don't spend the night, I'm usually one of the first 3 boats on the lake. My mentality in doing so isn't to "prevent" others from getting a certain spot, it's to ensure that all the hard work I did leading up to that hunt paid off by being able to hunt the spot I hoped to hunt. If you put in a lot of time and effort to find ducks, and succeed in finding an area that consistently holds birds, why in the world would you want to leave it to chance just for a few extra hours of sleep? I'm certainly not one of those guys bickering like women over the last purse in a sale...part of my justification for being the first to a spot is to ensure I don't have to deal with unreasonable people any more than necessary. Does it always pay off, absoutely not.

This isn't the same territorial issue that did away with permanent blinds. If someone is willing to spend the night on the lake in order to secure a spot to hunt, or got there an hour before anyone else, then I feel like they've pretty much earned that spot...the early bird gets the worm. What doesn't earn you the right to hunt a particular area, IMO, is to shove some bamboo in the mud the day, week, or month before, get a full night's sleep, and then cruise out to your blind 30 minutes before LST with the expectation of that area being "yours". That was the type of territorial issue that got permanent blinds outlawed.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby waterdogds » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:31 pm

DUCK-DAWG wrote:This isn't the same territorial issue that did away with permanent blinds. If someone is willing to spend the night on the lake in order to secure a spot to hunt, or got there an hour before anyone else, then I feel like they've pretty much earned that spot...the early bird gets the worm.


So, how pissed would you be after all the scouting and getting there super early, if 30 minutes before LST some jack legs come pulling up and set up. Then they tell you they've been scouting this same spot for weeks and refuse to leave. What's your next move? I can assure you this, because I've heard and seen it and undoubtedly you have as well. There's gonna be some cussing going on and two parties armed with shotguns will have tempers flare. Then the warden will be called. Pretty soon, they get tired of all the calls and complaints.....just like the blinds.

DUCK-DAWG wrote:What doesn't earn you the right to hunt a particular area, IMO, is to shove some bamboo in the mud the day, week, or month before, get a full night's sleep, and then cruise out to your blind 30 minutes before LST with the expectation of that area being "yours". That was the type of territorial issue that got permanent blinds outlawed.


Why not?.Someone made an individual effort to conceal a spot to hunt from, while others go further and build platforms with boat hides. Only to have someone set up or burn down (my personal favorite....not really). I'd be super pissed also.
It's the same DUCK-DAWG, only it's what's happening now. I said it in a thread earlier this year. We need limited quotas for certain lakes.
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How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby quackhunter99 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:04 pm

I'm with Duck-Dog on this one.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby tmclaimerFL » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:41 pm

I like the idea of a limited quota hunt on some lakes, but the regulation of it would never pass because then the state would have to have someone at every ramp checking people in and you also have to worry about others sneaking on the lake without quotas. Not to mention gating off the ramps so nobody could launch a day early.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby SouthernWingsAssaultTeam » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:55 pm

its not so much putting in the effort to stay all night on a spot ive done that myself and i respect anyone that does that bc they have a love for this sport.but wut i have a problem with is the openers where everybody and there brother are all hunting in one area and everybody is there two days bf season,who would wanna hunt like that? thats not reasonable to me.i avoid these areas on the openers, but how many good hunts have you had within a 100 yards of another boat? chances are very few.im with waterdog i love duck hunting more than anything and i go everyday but if sumbody is remotely close to where i wanna be a go on to a completely differernt area.I know arkansas does the 4 am rule and it does cause other problems such as boating accidents but we as duck hunters need to really uphold a respect for one another.some ppl may disagree. we try to respect every hunter we can bc we share a passion.If someone tells me where they found or killed ducks even if its public land ,i want go to that area or speak of it unless im invited , if someone is set up where i planned to go like i said i go to a completely differnt area.And also if sumbody comes in and sets up right on top of you just ask them to hunt with you hopefully you can steer them in the right way for that point on.To me if ppl would respect just those things it would make for better huntin for everybody.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby DUCK-DAWG » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:37 pm

waterdogds wrote:
DUCK-DAWG wrote:This isn't the same territorial issue that did away with permanent blinds. If someone is willing to spend the night on the lake in order to secure a spot to hunt, or got there an hour before anyone else, then I feel like they've pretty much earned that spot...the early bird gets the worm.


So, how pissed would you be after all the scouting and getting there super early, if 30 minutes before LST some jack legs come pulling up and set up. Then they tell you they've been scouting this same spot for weeks and refuse to leave. What's your next move? I can assure you this, because I've heard and seen it and undoubtedly you have as well. There's gonna be some cussing going on and two parties armed with shotguns will have tempers flare. Then the warden will be called. Pretty soon, they get tired of all the calls and complaints.....just like the blinds.

DUCK-DAWG wrote:What doesn't earn you the right to hunt a particular area, IMO, is to shove some bamboo in the mud the day, week, or month before, get a full night's sleep, and then cruise out to your blind 30 minutes before LST with the expectation of that area being "yours". That was the type of territorial issue that got permanent blinds outlawed.


Why not?.Someone made an individual effort to conceal a spot to hunt from, while others go further and build platforms with boat hides. Only to have someone set up or burn down (my personal favorite....not really). I'd be super pissed also.
It's the same DUCK-DAWG, only it's what's happening now. I said it in a thread earlier this year. We need limited quotas for certain lakes.


Inevitably, it happens...had a group do it to me 2 years ago. I was there an hour before them, and they set up on the backside of the tusseck I was on. They yelled and cussed and said they had hunted that particular spot all season (a lie, since I had hunted it the last 2 weekends and the wednesday before). I let those individuals know how I felt about what they did, picked up my decoys, and moved to a different spot a couple hundred yards away. It wasn't worth ruining an entire morning getting into a fight at o'dark-thirty or sticking around to have decoying birds swing behind me and get shot at. Not all hunters are like those morons though, and if I'm sitting in a spot an hour before anyone else comes by, I feel like I stand a much better chance of getting to hunt that spot...

I'll rephrase what I said about permanent blinds: What doesn't earn you the right to hunt a particular area, IMO, is to shove some bamboo in the mud the day, week, or month before, get a full night's sleep, and then cruise out to your blind 30 minutes before LST with the expectation of that area being "yours" IF someone has already beaten you to said spot. If you build a blind, you're entitled to hunt that spot as long as you're the first one there. Otherwise, accept the fact that you got beaten to it fair and square, and find another spot to hunt. That was how the permanent blind system was intended to work, but some guys felt like $20 worth of fenceposts and a bed-load of bamboo and dog fennel entitled them to ownership of that blind and that spot all season long, no exceptions. I'm ALL FOR permanent blinds...if it was legal, and Micc. had water, I would build 50 of them. That doesn't mean I'm entitled to first-right at every one of those spots every morning, it means I have 50 options to choose from that I know of, and if I'm the first one to a particular blind, I can hunt there. Building a blind in a particular spot does nothing more than provide you with a concealment option should you decide to hunt that spot...you still have to be willing to get there first.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby DUCK-DAWG » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:56 pm

SouthernWingsAssaultTeam wrote:its not so much putting in the effort to stay all night on a spot ive done that myself and i respect anyone that does that bc they have a love for this sport.but wut i have a problem with is the openers where everybody and there brother are all hunting in one area and everybody is there two days bf season,who would wanna hunt like that? thats not reasonable to me.i avoid these areas on the openers, but how many good hunts have you had within a 100 yards of another boat? chances are very few.im with waterdog i love duck hunting more than anything and i go everyday but if sumbody is remotely close to where i wanna be a go on to a completely differernt area.I know arkansas does the 4 am rule and it does cause other problems such as boating accidents but we as duck hunters need to really uphold a respect for one another.some ppl may disagree. we try to respect every hunter we can bc we share a passion.If someone tells me where they found or killed ducks even if its public land ,i want go to that area or speak of it unless im invited , if someone is set up where i planned to go like i said i go to a completely differnt area.And also if sumbody comes in and sets up right on top of you just ask them to hunt with you hopefully you can steer them in the right way for that point on.To me if ppl would respect just those things it would make for better huntin for everybody.


I agree...I have no desire to hunt like that, and don't. I don't care if I've been out there since 8pm, if a group of boats decides to move in on me and I feel like I can't hunt there safely or the birds are going to be get cut off from my spread, I'll pick up and move elsewhere. I spend the night on openers because I want to optimize my chances of getting a spot that I scouted. If it doesn't work out, I gave it a shot and I'll just hunt somewhere else. The single biggest issue on the water and the cause of all of these other problems is just what you mentioned...respect (or lack thereof). Whether it be setting up on top of someone that beat you to a spot, skybusting, etc, it's just a lack of respect to other hunters that's to blame. There's nothing more relaxing and enjoyable to me than duck hunting, but I'll be the first to admit that I take it way too seriously. That's partly why I won't hesitate to go to extreme measures to kill ducks (legally), or go days on end without sleep. I'm not unique in that regard, but some guys get so fixated on trying to kill a duck that they disregard the fact that everyone else on the lake is trying to do the same thing. It sounds so damn cheesy, but if everyone on the lake would be courteous to those around them...find a new spot if someone beats you to the one you hoped to hunt, let birds work, etc...we wouldn't have nearly the number of problems that we do, simple as that.
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby whaknstak » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:59 pm

I would voice my opinion on this matter, but just reread what duck dawg posted and pretend I typed it.
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How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby quackhunter99 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:37 pm

I can usually count on duck dawg to express my opinion in a much more logical way than I ever could. Great minds think alike i guess
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Re: How to Prevent Skybusting

Postby QuacknStrut » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:39 pm

I agree with about everything Dawg said.

I legally built a blind on a public lake a long time ago. When we pulled up to hunt it mid season, some guys were in it and said they would move. We told them heck no you will not, you beat us to the spot, we don't own it. Gave them some pointers on how to shoot it and they limited in 45 minutes and we jumped in their grave and finished our limit. Made some friends that day. They later called me to tell me about birds they had found and would not be able to hunt and told us to have at it.

I know one of the N Fl lakes you are talking about and I was one of the overnighters. Last year, most of the folks in there respected the birds enough to let them work and everyone had good shoots. We even left our dekes for some guys to finish their limit one of the two openers. They set up and did just that while we drank coffee and watched them from 300 yards away. We came back and picked up our dekes together and they were very appreciative. Only 4 stellar shoots we had last year were those 4 days. This year? Way different story. Tons of jacklegs out there shooting at birds in orbit, shooting birds that would fall 150 yards deep in the bulrushes and make no attempt to retrieve. ya know, googans. Be glad when some other lakes get water to take the pressure off my haunts. they can have their lakes.
QuacknStrut
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