Idaho information please?

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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby idgator » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:49 pm

Wavesilder,

I have to admit your rant against progression/ Liberal forward thinking made me laugh.

This country was founded on progressiveness and became the greatest nation on this planet because of progression. I guess in your perfect little Idaho world … everyone should own a couple of slaves, women couldn’t vote, there would be no child labor laws, corporations would run amuck and we would be a nation of vigilantly justice.

If you think liberal government tries to tell you what to do … what do you think when conservatives try to tell every single person in this country what they can and can’t do with their bodies (abortion), what do you think when conservatives try to impose their religion on everyone (no matter what their religion is or if they are religious at all), what do you think about a government that tells you you can’t make your own end of life decisions if you are terminally ill? BTW … Liberals are often the ones that fight for clean air, water and land which are the very things we and the animals we hunt need.

Additionally, you mention returning to the free market … there are no free markets (that are legal). The only industries that operate “freely” are illegal drugs and prostitution every other industry in this country and around the world is subsidized in one capacity or another. Some of the biggest benefactors of government largess are the timber, mining , farming and ranching industries the very industries that made Idaho what it is. It’s funny how people btich about other people getting handouts but have nothing to say about their own.

If you really think that because Boise passed a smoking ban that is a signal to move elsewhere … I would like to suggest you move to Syria (I think it‘s much closer to your non-progressive utopia than the USA is).

Mean Gene - anywhere in SW Idaho and you won't go wrong. Idaho is a great state with lots to offer. I would suggest taking a week or two and coming up here on vacation and checking it out.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby swanpig » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:02 pm

I'd trade IDGATOR for MEAN GENE in a heartbeat.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby cutm Jack » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:41 pm

idgator wrote:Wavesilder,

I have to admit your rant against progression/ Liberal forward thinking made me laugh.

This country was founded on progressiveness and became the greatest nation on this planet because of progression. I guess in your perfect little Idaho world … everyone should own a couple of slaves, women couldn’t vote, there would be no child labor laws, corporations would run amuck and we would be a nation of vigilantly justice.

If you think liberal government tries to tell you what to do … what do you think when conservatives try to tell every single person in this country what they can and can’t do with their bodies (abortion), what do you think when conservatives try to impose their religion on everyone (no matter what their religion is or if they are religious at all), what do you think about a government that tells you you can’t make your own end of life decisions if you are terminally ill? BTW … Liberals are often the ones that fight for clean air, water and land which are the very things we and the animals we hunt need.

Additionally, you mention returning to the free market … there are no free markets (that are legal). The only industries that operate “freely” are illegal drugs and prostitution every other industry in this country and around the world is subsidized in one capacity or another. Some of the biggest benefactors of government largess are the timber, mining , farming and ranching industries the very industries that made Idaho what it is. It’s funny how people btich about other people getting handouts but have nothing to say about their own.

If you really think that because Boise passed a smoking ban that is a signal to move elsewhere … I would like to suggest you move to Syria (I think it‘s much closer to your non-progressive utopia than the USA is).

Mean Gene - anywhere in SW Idaho and you won't go wrong. Idaho is a great state with lots to offer. I would suggest taking a week or two and coming up here on vacation and checking it out.


Well if I moved to Syria I would make a hell of a lot more selling stockpiles of VX, HD, and all other chemical agents... This over controlling attitude you speak of is just what we need. If our Founding Fathers heard you speak they would be sick. I'm pretty sure George Washington owned slaves and made his own whiskey. Take your liberal loving, commy attitude and shove it up your ass. This country was founded on hard working individuals who weren't afraid to get their hands dirty. Send em' all to Idaho and we'll take everything over... Seriously how hard would it be to overthrow a bunch of nancy's who are used to sucking on the government teet and giving nothing of themselves! **** me... I was seriously born a hundred years too early.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby idgator » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:17 pm

Swanpig - (that's an interesting name by the way) unfortunately for you ... you don't get to trade me. I'm here and I plan on staying for a looooong time, but thank for the warm fuzzy feeling.

waveslider - I get it now, you don't want any one telling you what to do (especially if you disagree with them politically or otherwise), but you have no problem telling everyone else what they should do. That's a bit hypocritical don't you think?

Now you're speaking for the founding fathers ... if you don't mind me asking how exactly do you know what they think and how exactly are you able to channel them? BTW when the founding fathers created this country and memorialized the essence of it with the constitution they did so with the ability to amend it because they knew the constitution was not perfect and allowed for the growth of this country and its people ... that was part of the brilliance of what they did.

Thank you, but I don't have any desire to shove anything anywhere. I think you should look up the word liberal and the word communist they are two entirely different things. However, I'm betting you watch fox news and listen to rush limbaugh so you wouldnt know that.

I would bet you do plenty of sucking on the government teet and don't even realize it.

to end on a positive note, you and I both agree you were born 100 years too late and that's ashame.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby idgator » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:20 pm

I apologize in the above response I listed waveslider and that was actually a response to cutm jack. Sorry about that.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby swanpig » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:28 pm

idgator wrote:I apologize in the above response I listed waveslider and that was actually a response to cutm jack. Sorry about that.


A lot of folks in the T.V. Have to apologize to everyone else in the state on behalf of the folks in district 19.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby cutm Jack » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:33 pm

idgator wrote:Swanpig - (that's an interesting name by the way) unfortunately for you ... you don't get to trade me. I'm here and I plan on staying for a looooong time, but thank for the warm fuzzy feeling.

waveslider - I get it now, you don't want any one telling you what to do (especially if you disagree with them politically or otherwise), but you have no problem telling everyone else what they should do. That's a bit hypocritical don't you think?

Now you're speaking for the founding fathers ... if you don't mind me asking how exactly do you know what they think and how exactly are you able to channel them? BTW when the founding fathers created this country and memorialized the essence of it with the constitution they did so with the ability to amend it because they knew the constitution was not perfect and allowed for the growth of this country and its people ... that was part of the brilliance of what they did.

Thank you, but I don't have any desire to shove anything anywhere. I think you should look up the word liberal and the word communist they are two entirely different things. However, I'm betting you watch fox news and listen to rush limbaugh so you wouldnt know that.

I would bet you do plenty of sucking on the government teet and don't even realize it.

to end on a positive note, you and I both agree you were born 100 years too late and that's ashame.


You didn't say anything... Just talked in a circle like a typical democrat.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby idgator » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:21 am

I suppose if I wanted to act like you, I might respond to your last post with something like ... maybe you were too stupid to understand what I was saying (like a typcial republican). I won't do that though.

Is there anything else you would like to talk about or was that about it for you. If not, have a good evening.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby waveslider » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:19 pm

So you have been snooping around here for who knows how long and THIS is the topic that caused you to sign up? Interesting.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby swanpig » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:30 pm

waveslider wrote:So you have been snooping around here for who knows how long and THIS is the topic that caused you to sign up? Interesting.


+1
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby idgator » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:29 pm

Waveslider, cutm jack, swanpig

Does it really matter how long I have enjoyed this site or what caused me to sign up? I didn't realized that getting your approval or anyone elses for that matter was a prerequisite to being able to post here.

Having said that, we probably don't share much in common politically judging by your posts, however, we do like to duck hunt.

I would say if you are going to post something that is political in nature (or controversial) then you should be a big enough man to handle someone who may disagree with your opinion and have an open honest discussion or if you can't, then maybe it shouldn't be posted in the first place.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby waveslider » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:52 pm

Oh, I have NO problem discussing the topic. None whatsoever. I just thought it odd that you chose this topic as the one worth responding to after freshly signing up for the forum. That's all.

In truth, you didn’t offer much worthy of comment. A couple of statements, throw in a word or two about slavery, women’s suffrage and abortion and think you’ve pretty much got it covered.

First off, you mistake me for a Republican, or worse-yet a conservative. I disagree with both sides, especially the part about gay marriage, abortion rights (or lack thereof actually), or anything the government has to say about religion. I am of the opinion that the government has absolutely NO place in any of those decisions, or the economics surrounding them. So I disagree with both.

This endless drive towards increased government control isn’t restricted to the Liberal/Socialist agenda. However they have done more to drive it and protect it than any other group. I'm a firm believer in the old adage that says "every time a law is passed, a freedom dies"

This country wasn’t founded on progressiveness. Certainly not the flavor of progression that this thread speaks to. The country was founded on hard work, smart people, capitalism and the fastest growing period was that period when the government had the least stronghold on the average American. With Capitalism playing a larger role than many are willing to concede.

To quote Nathanial Branden and Ayn Rand (may not be a direct quote). When unlimited and unrestricted by individual rights, a government is man’s deadliest enemy. The Bill of Rights was not written as protection against what other PEOPLE, might do. It was written as protection of what the GOVERNMENT might do.

So if your particular brand of progression involves further government control, further government support/subsidies and further government anything- Like I said; You can keep it. I don’t get any of the handouts and subsidies you speak of. I’m what our President refers to as “the more fortunate” which apparently means I should pay more taxes. How is that progressive? The government stealing my money is the oldest trick in the book, not progressive. It’s a slap in the face every time I hear about how “fortunate” I am. I put myself through college, put myself through graduate school, and worked my way up the ladder through long hours, hard work and ingenuity. I’m not fortunate, I just worked harder than the next guy and you can kiss my *** if you want more of my money to support your ever growing socialist agenda.

And yes, the fact that Boise passed a no smoking ban is a PERFECT example of why this place is going downhill in my opinion. I do not smoke, I don’t know anyone that smokes and I find smoking to a terribly irritating habit and my wife and I make every effort to avoid places that allow smoking. But as objectionable as I find smoking I’m more committed to not allowing the government to tell people what they can and can’t do and I certainly don’t want the government telling business owners how to run their business. So I will fight for the smokers’ rights. The fact that the people of Boise voted for this, actually chose it, confirms to me that I am in the minority regarding my abhorrent contempt for increased government control. Which, to bring us back to the topic at hand, is EXACTLY consistent with the way California has been moving for quite some time and I would very much like to NOT live in a place like that.

Communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby Slidellduckhunter » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:50 am

waveslider wrote:First off, you mistake me for a Republican, or worse-yet a conservative. I disagree with both sides, especially the part about gay marriage, abortion rights (or lack thereof actually), or anything the government has to say about religion. I am of the opinion that the government has absolutely NO place in any of those decisions, or the economics surrounding them. So I disagree with both.


+1 also...(I am an Independent). And apologies to Mean Gene, you are still welcome to move to Idaho as this is your freedom to do so (no papers, no borders).
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby redbeardhd90 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:13 am

Wow first time poster on this site and soon to be ex IL resident going to Spokane. All of these posts are interesting.

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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby idgator » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:21 pm

Waveslider,

I’m glad to hear that you are patrolling the boards and keeping everyone safe from newly signed up members … I will sleep well knowing this.

Sorry I wasted your very valuable time pointing out those things. You have no obligation to respond to anything I say or post. However, if you are going to sit on your pedestal and cast aspersions then maybe you should be ready to defend them?

You"re assuming I thought you were a republican, I actually wasn’t sure, but had you figured as either Conservative/Republican or a Libertarian. You seem to be falling more on the Libertarian side of things as I read your posts.

There you go again … “ liberal/socialist agenda” … do you know what either of those words mean? I invite you to study the definition of both. Being Liberal has nothing to do with Socialism unless you are taking the meanings from Glen Beck.

This country was primarily founded on an escape from religious persecution that was occurring in Europe. The idea of having freedom of religion was/is a progressive ideal. Progressive in the sense of moving a society forward and pursuing freedom.

You bring up an interesting point, “the fastest growing period was when the government had the least control”. I’m not sure that statement is correct, but let’s assume it is … at what cost did that growth come? Have you ever read about the industrial revolution and the conditions that workers had to endure? Have you ever read about company towns and how employees were all but slaves to the corporations? Have you ever read about the things that companies did to the environment? I don’t know about you, but I for one am thankful we have a 5 day standard work week rather than 7, I am glad we have child labour laws, some environmental protection, etc., etc. Wow … government control really sucks doesn’t it? I’m not saying everything the government does is good, but I don’t ignore the fact that many of the liberties, freedoms and protection I have today are due to government. It’s a simple fact. Also, you may do a little reading about the GI bill that the GOVERNMENT put in place after WWII and what that did for this country.

Additionally, I don’t think anyone denies that capitalism is the backbone of our economy … again, unless you are getting your information from Glen Beck. Hell, we just went through a period where our government rescued most of the auto industry and our financial companies to prevent an economic catastrophe that would have destroyed many companies and sent this country into a depression. Everyone (or at least almost everyone recognizes we need capitalism). I really don’t get you guys that keep saying Liberals or anyone else don’t know this.

I am familiar with both Branden and Rand. It’s interesting that you choose to quote them, but now I know where you are coming from with some of these opinions you have.

For those of you not familiar with Ayn Rand … here’s an interview she gave some years ago (in case you don’t want to read her books). An interesting person to say the least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukJiBZ8_4k

I suppose you can side with the likes of Ayn Rand and her boyfriend or the philosopher that said … Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ … it’s a choice.

Waveslider, no offense, but you aren’t the self-made man you think you are (I’m not saying you didn’t work hard). I promise you, throughout your life you have been the beneficiary of subsidies and government handouts … do you drive on public roads, use public bridges, enjoy the protection of the US military, do you take any tax deductions when you file your taxes, do you buy food, what does the company you work for sell and who do they sell it to … do you think that maybe your customers use subsidies and government hand out to purchase goods from you and there by support your salary with others tax dollars. Don’t think for a minute you haven’t benefitted from subsidies and government handout because you have either directly or indirectly!

Oh btw … taxes are the price you pay to live in this country and our tax rates today are near all-time lows … if you don’t like it you’re more than welcome to move to a country with lower tax rates.

And now we do a full circle back to this smoking topic … this one is really sticking in your craw. The logic behind the smoking ban is simple … this is a matter of public health and my right as a non-smoker to not be subjected to cancer causing smoke. If someone wants to kill themselves by smoking by all means go do it, but you don’t have the right to take me or anyone else with you. Again, using your logic, maybe I should be able to go down town and spray asbestos all over the place because I think it’s pretty … certainly no one should have a right to tell me I can’t.

I would like to end my post complimenting you (I can have a difference of opinion with folks and like them). I saw a post of yours where you took some nieghbor kids out hunting and that is commendable, but I still disagree with your political perspective :beer:
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby waveslider » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:15 am

idgator wrote:

Waveslider, no offense, but you aren’t the self-made man you think you are (I’m not saying you didn’t work hard). I promise you, throughout your life you have been the beneficiary of subsidies and government handouts … do you drive on public roads, use public bridges, enjoy the protection of the US military, do you take any tax deductions when you file your taxes, do you buy food, what does the company you work for sell and who do they sell it to … do you think that maybe your customers use subsidies and government hand out to purchase goods from you and there by support your salary with others tax dollars. Don’t think for a minute you haven’t benefitted from subsidies and government handout because you have either directly or indirectly!

Oh btw … taxes are the price you pay to live in this country and our tax rates today are near all-time lows....



I need look no further than the statement above to see the fundamental difference in theory and opinion. Roads, bridges and the military are not government subsidies and they are not handouts. They are what I buy with my taxes paid. These are not gifts that the almighty government bestows on me, it's what my taxes are supposed to be used for.

Unbelievable.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby idgator » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:05 am

Waveslider,

I figured you were going to reply something like that. I hate to break it to you but what you pay in taxes doesn't even come close to paying for the infrastructure and military in this country, a good portion of it is part of the yearly deficits we run up along with other basic services the government supplies. I see you didn't address the other obvious subsidies you enjoy.

My point isn't to rub anyone's nose in it, my only point is that no matter how selfsufficent we think we are ... if you really, honestly look at it we aren't. We enjoy a lot of things that were built by previous generations, by the current over spending and by direct government action. This isn't to say that government is the answer to everything, it obviously isn't and as the government becomes more and more disfuncitonal it amazes me that this country can continue to prosper. And I'm not saying that hard work and individual drive isn't important because it is (it is the most important thing in determining success) ... I think you and I agree on this.

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind sitting down with you and exchanging some duck hunting stories along with a little political talk.

Take care and good luck.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby twsnow18 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:15 am

idgator wrote:Waveslider,

I figured you were going to reply something like that. I hate to break it to you but what you pay in taxes doesn't even come close to paying for the infrastructure and military in this country, a good portion of it is part of the yearly deficits we run up along with other basic services the government supplies. I see you didn't address the other obvious subsidies you enjoy.

My point isn't to rub anyone's nose in it, my only point is that no matter how selfsufficent we think we are ... if you really, honestly look at it we aren't. We enjoy a lot of things that were built by previous generations, by the current over spending and by direct government action. This isn't to say that government is the answer to everything, it obviously isn't and as the government becomes more and more disfuncitonal it amazes me that this country can continue to prosper. And I'm not saying that hard work and individual drive isn't important because it is (it is the most important thing in determining success) ... I think you and I agree on this.

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind sitting down with you and exchanging some duck hunting stories along with a little political talk.

Take care and good luck.


+1 idgator, ^^ I agree 100%.
Even though it's just the internet, you can tell a person's intelligence level just by the way they type. I commend you for that idgator.
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Re: Idaho information please?

Postby Jesse Minish » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:41 pm

Lots of great places in Idaho. I happen to live in Coeur D Alene one of my least favorite areas of Idaho. A little north or south of here though and it is nice. Just to many people here for me.
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