Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

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Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby IdahoSkies » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:57 pm

Since this is an Idaho Specific forum I thought this was something the members may want to know about and take action on even though its not waterfowl related.

This is reposted from another forum I frequent (Boiseshooters.com) and explains the issue far better than I could.

Thanks to Representative Christy Perry, new legislation was introduced yesterday requiring the Idaho Fish and Game Department to implement a bonus point system. HB145 states " The purpose of this legislation is to instruct the Idaho Department of Fish and Game to implement a bonus point system for controlled hunts. The current statue, IC 36-104, in essence states the Idaho Department of Fish and Game "may" establish the rules and procedures necessary to create a bonus point system. This legislation will simply change the word "may" to "shall.""

http://legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2013/H0145.htm

Emotions and desires aside, the factual statistics do not show a significant increase in draw odds for those who get in on the ground floor of hard to draw hunts, but they do make it nearly impossible for someone down the road to get in (new hunters) and have a statistical chance of drawing.

This legislation in moving rapidly and we as hunters need to contact our State Representatives and Senators immediately to get this stopped.

Here are the contacts:
Representative Mike Moyle
Phone: (b) 286-7842
E-mail: mmoyle@house.idaho.gov

Representative Christy Perry
E-mail: cperry@house.idaho.gov

RCC Chair Lawerence Denney
E-mail: ldenney@house.idaho.gov

RCC Vice Chair Marc Gibbs
E-mail: mgibbs@house.idaho.gov

Senate Majority Leader Bart Davis
Phone: (b) 522-8100
E-mail: bmdavis@senate.idaho.gov

From Corey……….Here is what I am sending, which is just a snapshot of factual statistics to support my opposition of HB145:

I do not personally condone or support a bonus point system in Idaho....my reasoning is not emotional, it is based on simple statistical facts. Fortunately, the bonus point system that was proposed in 2010 was shot down due to outcry from sportsmen, and no system was implemented. I'm not sure why it is being rammed through again, but the statistics still do not support it.

A bonus point system will only benefit those who get in on the ground level, and only very slightly at that. The impact will be detrimental to new hunters and new applicants. The only hunts the bonus point system will benefit, will be the hunts that don't need a bonus point system (easy to draw hunts). This information is based on factual statistics, not emotion or greed.

The current controlled hunt system is the most fair for giving an equal chance of drawing to everyone. A straight bonus point system (increased chance for each year applying) is the most "fair" bonus point system...other renditions of a BP system will be weighted towards improved odds for long-term applicants, and terribly reduced odds for new applicants. For hard to draw hunts, the odds only improve from 3.0% to 3.19% for someone who applies for 5 years, while the odds for a new applicant 5 years into the system goes from 3.0% to 0.64% (decrease of 78.67%). For a weighted bonus point system (Nevada style), it is much worse for new hunters/applicants. For hard to draw hunts, the odds for someone who has applied the first 5 years only increase from 3.0% to 3.26%, while the odds for a new applicant plummet from 3.0% to 0.13% (95.67% decrease).

Current system
High demand hunts - 3% chance of drawing (all applicants)
Low demand hunts - 29% chance of drawing (all applicants)

Straight (non-weighted) Bonus Point system (2 years into system)
High demand hunts - 1.52% (first-time applicant) & 3.05% (max-point holder)
Low demand hunts - 16.78% (first-time applicant) & 33.56% (max-point holder)

Straight (non-weighted) Bonus Point system (5 years into system)
High demand hunts - 0.64% (first-time applicant) & 3.19% (max-point holder)
Low demand hunts - 11.35% (first-time applicant) & 68.00% (max-point holder)

Nevada-style BP system (2 years into system)
High demand hunts - 0.60% (first-time applicant) & 3.07% (max-point holder)
Low demand hunts - 7.5% (first-time applicant) & 37.3% (max-point holder)

Nevada-style BP system (5 years into system)
High demand hunts - 0.13% (first-time applicant) & 3.26% (max-point holder)
Low demand hunts - 3.47% (first-time applicant) & 90.0% (max-point holder)

I strongly urge you to do everything within your power to stop this bill from moving forward. Hunting is not about money and greed. Unfortunately, a bonus point system is a step in that direction, and will have a negative impact on future generations of hunters, as well as all but those who are able to apply at the ground level.

Many thanks,
Corey Jacobsen
Elk101.com - "Extreme Elk" Magazine

Please take the time and support one of the last over the counter hunting states in the nation.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby cfp4sfc » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:28 pm

Thanks for the heads up- guys and gals, we need to get this one stopped.

If your representative isn't listed above, here's a link to get the emails for them

http://legislature.idaho.gov/about/cont ... strict.cfm

Corey's email makes all the right points- hunting in Idaho shouldn't be about the people willing to burn money on a points system. I know some people have put in for the same tag for a number of years and not gotten the draw, but at least they know they've got the same chance as anyone else under the current system. Does anyone want to avoid putting in for a cow tag because someday you would like to draw that big bull hunt? A point system sure kills any family oriented hunting we might have.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby Waterfowlhammer » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:43 am

I don't think a point system is a bad thing but then again I came from a state that already had that in place.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby FlyFishingFreak » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:28 pm

To Hammer- And how did you like it? Honestly? I too came from a state that had it, and it is a terrible thing IMO. It has its good and its bad. The state can generate money from it big time.

It is difficult enough to draw a good unit, now compound that with the fact that everyone will have 5 points.

Hated it in Nevada, dont want it here.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby Waterfowlhammer » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:36 pm

I honestly didn't mind it at all. The controlled hunts that I put in for I could draw every year. The only down fall was antelope but here you still have to draw as well. So I am more on the fence as I could go either way.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby swanpig » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:46 pm

My hunting partner and I haven't drawn a tag in Idaho in 13 years for Deer, Elk or Antelope. My wife has been putting in for 2 years with no luck. The hunts we put in for range from 5?% to 30% chance of sucessfully drawing a tag. Five years ago I would've said that Idaho should stay away from a point system. I'm not so sure now.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby Duck-slayer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:51 pm

swanpig wrote:My hunting partner and I haven't drawn a tag in Idaho in 13 years for Deer, Elk or Antelope. My wife has been putting in for 2 years with no luck. The hunts we put in for range from 5?% to 30% chance of sucessfully drawing a tag. Five years ago I would've said that Idaho should stay away from a point system. I'm not so sure now.


That's what I hear from others that have not drawn, but most of those have not drawn all 3, just saying that you can go too wyoming and hunt antelope for about the same price as you can here.... at least Doe's, and a buck tag really isn't that bad, and you can almost hunt every year if not every year there for antelope, when you put in gas, a place too stay, food, tags, it comes out about the same, unless you take a camper than you can do it pretty cheap, Deer here is not that bad in some general units, Elk isn't that bad either, as far as bow goes.... I don't rifle hunt much, but I did draw a deer tag twice, my wife drew it once and got a 174" buck, Dad drew it 3 times, got a 185"er this last time 2 years ago, so that being said, I have not drawn a elk tag, or rifle antelope but I don't really care too either..... I believe they need a new book keeper too figure out where all the money is going and some of those pointless studies need too be taken out, if the tree huggers want some of those studies have them pay for it, it all comes down too MONEY and that freak'n sucks.... because i'm a meat hunter..... The biggest problem is most people don't want too get off there ass and actually work for a deer/elk in a general unit.... but this is my opinion....
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby FlyFishingFreak » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:00 pm

Well said Slayer. It is true, you don't have to be in a trophy unit to kill a trophy animal.

At least in Idaho if you dont draw your coveted "Trophy Unit Hunt" you can still go buy a tag. In Nevada if you dont draw your tag, you dont hunt. Lets say you have been hunting the same area for 15 years. You know all the backroads, good draws, watering holes, everything about that area. The bonus point system goes into effect. Not a big deal, you will just keep putting in for your favorite hunting spot, and accumulate points and the odds will only increase with the passing years. Lets say however, your like me and dont like to hunt the same spots every year, staying at the same camp spot. You CAN NOT change units to hunt with a bonus point system, meaning you cant explore this beautiful state, because everyone will have more points than you and you will always have 5% or less chance of drawing the new area. Situations in life change, you might not always be able to hunt your favorite Unit. Hypothetically, you already have 5 points at your favorite unit; but, lets say your son or daughter goes off to college and you want to continue to hunt with them. So you plan a hunt somewhere new, somewhere in the middle, where both parties can meet and hunt. You will be behind the curve with points and have no chance of drawing. I tried this with my father for 3 years in college and never got drawn, and we couldn't buy a tag.

There are a ton of variables that may not ever come to mind when thinking about this issue.

Also a thought, If people want bigger animals to shoot, dont shoot the first thing with horns. Tell yourself "I want a Trophy Class animal, that's what Im hunting for" and stick to it. Be prepared to go home empty. Not last day, Ill shoot that, I need something to show the wife that I'm actually hunting. That spike bull could one day be a 350 class if you pass on him. Show some self restraint. If you want meat, cows and does are also made of meat.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby IdahoSkies » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:51 pm

I just wanted to post an update about this. The bill had its original print hearing on February 13 and was printed, but it has not been scheduled for a hearing. Its possible that it will die in committee and not be given a hearing, especially since I am hearing that most of the legislators want to have the session finished by the end of March. Essentially once the state exchange (voted on today) and the personal property tax bills get handled.

So this issue seems to have gone away for the year, but it could be scheduled for a hearing anytime before the end of the session. Just wanted to keep you appraised of the situation.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby swanpig » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:52 pm

Matt,

We already hunt Montana for deer every year. It's pricey but worth it. It would just be nice to hunt the Owyhees or Bennett Hills with a rifle at some point in my lifetime.
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Re: Big Game Point System Proposed for Idaho

Postby Duck-slayer » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:11 pm

swanpig wrote:Matt,

We already hunt Montana for deer every year. It's pricey but worth it. It would just be nice to hunt the Owyhees or Bennett Hills with a rifle at some point in my lifetime.


you probably will if you keep at it, my dad had drawn the owhyees twice and I have 1 time in 12 years, just have too keep at it, and it will happen, I have yet too draw a limited elk tag or Antelope rifle but i'm not complaining, I find other ways too do it, like me i'm a huge bowhunter so it doesn't hurt my feelings too not draw a rifle tag, but try muzzleloader or bow or rifle, if your hunting does it matter what your using? I would rather have a chance every year too draw the tag instead of like your saying once in a lifetime.....
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