Time to vent a tad...

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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby jdinid » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:47 pm

Found hundreds of birds yesterday...all sitting comfortable behind "No Trespassing" signs. I did pick up a nice rooster though.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby HaydenHunter » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:57 pm

jdinid wrote:Found hundreds of birds yesterday...all sitting comfortable behind "No Trespassing" signs. I did pick up a nice rooster though.
jdnid, does your "handle" mean you are from North Idaho?
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby jdinid » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:26 pm

HaydenHunter wrote:
jdinid wrote:Found hundreds of birds yesterday...all sitting comfortable behind "No Trespassing" signs. I did pick up a nice rooster though.
jdnid, does your "handle" mean you are from North Idaho?


Nope. My initials "in" IDaho. I look forward to exploring the north though. :)
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby Fraser72 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:22 pm

Slidellduckhunter wrote:But then...right about sunrise walking along the south bank about 100 meters away from me were 2 teenagers who talked or yelled at each other at the top of their lungs (teens by their voices and cursing). Not wanting to leave a bad hunting experience half-done they then proceeded to shot at any birds overhead even if said birds were wiping cloud out of their eyes. When they missed they yelled at each other. That lasted a good hour. They left and then about 3 hours later I hear 2 voices again (same ones? - don't know but I think so). Right after a boat had passed by I hear shots on the water in my direction and then I actually see them...and get this, their shooting at poule d'eau (oh sorry...coots) from the bank with no chance of being able to retrieve any of them and one of them is wearing an orange safety vest. I can handle the crowds but not the Junior Skybusters Club Members or the idiot fathers who let their sons go off hunting unsupervised and poorly trained. Okay...I feel better now.


Just want to say that not all 16 and 17 year olds out there are unethical idiots! I'm 16 and try my chances at some ducks or geese with my buddies every chance I get! I'm fairly new to it but I do my best to follow good ethics. There are a lot of disrespectful teens out there that have no common courtesy for other people whether they are another hunter or not! I definitely agree with you on that. However, I happen to know a lot of people my age that have a lot of respect for the outdoors! I spend a lot of time scouting birds whenever I'm not in school and just today I had people set up 100 yards down river from me who skybusted every bird that circled my spread and were yelling at the top of their lungs in between shots! Frustrating! I've been raised to be an ethical hunter but I see a lot of people that apparently haven't(people of all ages). Just thought I'd let you guys know that not all teens are the way you described above!
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby Slidellduckhunter » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:44 am

[quote=Just want to say that not all 16 and 17 year olds out there are unethical idiots! I'm 16 and try my chances at some ducks or geese with my buddies every chance I get! I'm fairly new to it but I do my best to follow good ethics. There are a lot of disrespectful teens out there that have no common courtesy for other people whether they are another hunter or not! I definitely agree with you on that. However, I happen to know a lot of people my age that have a lot of respect for the outdoors! I spend a lot of time scouting birds whenever I'm not in school and just today I had people set up 100 yards down river from me who skybusted every bird that circled my spread and were yelling at the top of their lungs in between shots! Frustrating! I've been raised to be an ethical hunter but I see a lot of people that apparently haven't(people of all ages). Just thought I'd let you guys know that not all teens are the way you described above![/quote]

Of course I am sure there are and I would even bet the majority of them are ethical hunters and the biggest reason they are is that they have been trained or tutored in some fashion by duck hunting family members. I started going out with Dad at age 6 and at age 10 I was allowed to hunt with them (and after a NRA Youth Safety Course) but it was 5 more years before Dad would let me out on my own. And absolutely unethical hunters cover all ages and types.
Do you know why Cajuns don't hunt elephants? Because the decoys won't fit in their pirogues!
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby mtbaughs » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:53 pm

I did see something that burned my ass the other day. One guy jump shooting the snake with truck in tow. They jumped a group of ducks but killed only one. No waders on, no dog, no boat. The moron was throwing rocks just past the duck floating down the river trying to get the wave action from the rocks to push the dead duck to shore. After watching the idiot do this for 60 yards, I sent my dog out to retrieve his duck.

I can see possibly hunting over decoy's without a dog or boat if there is a long shallow stretch of river and the hunter has waders on to retrieve the birds though I think its still unethical as some ass in waders won't catch a wounded duck. AS a hunter you must provide your best effort to retrieve game. Hunting moving water without a boat or dog is bullshit.

I'd really like to see a law passed that won't let hunters pursue ducks in moving water without a boat or dog. It seems like there really should be a law on the books to this effect.

Stupidest crap I've seen and such a waste of a ducks life. I did see the fish and game warden earlier in the day and got his personal cell number. He'll be looking for your plates
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby goosepond » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:29 am

Ive tried to stay off this thread for a variety of reasons as non of the bickering and venting here does anygood for anyone. As far back as I can remember, thats over 55 years of waterfowl hunting, this has always gone on. Yes maybe a little more, but ya know what guys, with the push to get waterfowl guiding in Idaho, and its getting very close, everything you all are saying and complaining about is just giving the outfitters and the Idaho Outfitters and Guides Licensing Board more food for the fodder to justify why there should be guiding and outfitting in Idaho. Although we may get upset at those that do what many here have been complaining about, but, just wait until outfitting for waterfowl becomes legal, then this most likely will become reduced as they will be going with an outfitter for the day and if you think the average joe out there who is jump shooting etc is a problem, just wait until the outfitter is sitting on your spot on the river or in a field. Its going to happen, and threads just like this help their cause. Just my two cents worth but, really, come on folks, has it really done anything for waterfowling? I dont think so other than to help the other side.

Two pages of this venting, maybe its time to close the thread and get back to trying to hunt some birds and just let it be.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby Slidellduckhunter » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:34 am

Goosepond...really? I respect that you are tired of reading this 'venting' but to say that it does not do any good is a defeatist attitude at best so I presume you are venting yourself pertaining to our perceived whining. Sirrah, submitted for your approval: per chance there could be a hunter new to the game reading these threads so perhaps by listing these examples we could educate such a person; or perhaps a hunter who had either unwittingly or knowing committed some of these unethical acts will likewise receive a similar education or have a change of heart; and there is the opportunity for a G&F official or warden who doubtlessly will scan these forums and threads and perhaps re-double their efforts.
As you have read here and in past threads over the past 2 years (as I've seen) there have been opportunities for some of us to actually report specifics to the authorities of unethical hunting and by their example perhaps more of us would do the same as we can... but to suggest that we hide our heads in the sand and pretend that we are hopeless and helpless to such acts is ridiculous. Since most of these reported specific events to this and past threads cover hunting on public land, how does this possibly lend support to the state allowing waterfowl outfitters? I would submit that in fact with waterfowl outfitting passing judgement that you would see an increase in unethical hunting as it puts more pressure on public land with the outfitters arranging and removing more private land availability. I dare not suggest that you have or would condone such unethical hunting but to do and say nothing would indeed favor those very same offenders.
Do you know why Cajuns don't hunt elephants? Because the decoys won't fit in their pirogues!
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby waveslider » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:25 am

goosepond wrote: then this most likely will become reduced as they will be going with an outfitter for the day and if you think the average joe out there who is jump shooting etc is a problem, just wait until the outfitter is sitting on your spot on the river or in a field.


Have you been drinking? I don't want guiding any more than anyone but if this is the argument they are using and we lose, then we deserve it.

Do you really think bubba joe who has a fat lab and a camo coat is going to shell out money to hunt with an outfitter? Not a chance.

Please enlighten me on how exposing the law breakers, idiots and duck dynasty fanatics helps the case for allowing guiding in Idaho?

If you are looking to rally support against allowing waterfowl guiding in Idaho, a noble cause celeb indeed, then start a thread about it and keep it top-of-mind. The rationalization of discussing the crappy ethics of "hunters" and strengthening the case for guiding is made only by you.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby fetch21 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:29 am

mtbaughs wrote:I did see something that burned my ass the other day. One guy jump shooting the snake with truck in tow. They jumped a group of ducks but killed only one. No waders on, no dog, no boat. The moron was throwing rocks just past the duck floating down the river trying to get the wave action from the rocks to push the dead duck to shore. After watching the idiot do this for 60 yards, I sent my dog out to retrieve his duck.

I can see possibly hunting over decoy's without a dog or boat if there is a long shallow stretch of river and the hunter has waders on to retrieve the birds though I think its still unethical as some ass in waders won't catch a wounded duck. AS a hunter you must provide your best effort to retrieve game. Hunting moving water without a boat or dog is bullshit.

I'd really like to see a law passed that won't let hunters pursue ducks in moving water without a boat or dog. It seems like there really should be a law on the books to this effect.

Stupidest crap I've seen and such a waste of a ducks life. I did see the fish and game warden earlier in the day and got his personal cell number. He'll be looking for your plates


I agree with you almost 100%, but I can see the other side of the argument this would present. If someone can't afford a boat and maybe their work life doesn't allow adequate time to be a good dog owner I'm not sure we can/should tell them that they can't duck hunt. You have to keep in mind as well that just because someone is hunting with a dog doesn't mean they have trained their dog to the point where they will recover every bird. Even the best dog loses a bird once in a blue moon, and a lot of people hunt with dogs who are far from "the best".
There are a TON of places on the smaller rivers, Boise and Payette, that you can easily and safely wade the entire river for very long stretches (100+ yards). I don't hunt without my dog, but there are places on those rivers that I would feel very confident that I could recover all my downed birds by myself.
I think we just have to rely on people to use good judgement when hunting with limited means to retrieve birds, and when they don't hopefully there will be a warden around to issue a wanton waste ticket.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby mtbaughs » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:45 pm

Some may think that there are a few situations where hunting without a dog or boat might work if the river is shallow and the hunter has waders though in that situation a wounded duck will almost always be lost unless its next to dead. A broken wing and its highly unlikely you'll ever catch it though I'd like to watch someone try. I don't see a hunter searching through bank brush for a wounded duck for very long. Of course dogs will miss some retrieves but the % of loss is WAY less unless the dog has an owner who hasn't spent the time. In killing an animal, we should honor it by doing everything possible to harvest it. The above scenario I think may increase chances but still leaves the door too open for wounded birds to get away.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby fetch21 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:52 pm

mtbaughs wrote:Some may think that there are a few situations where hunting without a dog or boat might work if the river is shallow and the hunter has waders though in that situation a wounded duck will almost always be lost unless its next to dead. A broken wing and its highly unlikely you'll ever catch it though I'd like to watch someone try. I don't see a hunter searching through bank brush for a wounded duck for very long. Of course dogs will miss some retrieves but the % of loss is WAY less unless the dog has an owner who hasn't spent the time. In killing an animal, we should honor it by doing everything possible to harvest it. The above scenario I think may increase chances but still leaves the door too open for wounded birds to get away.



Almost always be lost? You're telling me that if it weren't for your dog you would lose just about every bird you shoot that isn't stone dead when it hits the ground/water? I guess if you're hunting deep water that makes sense, but not everyone hunts deep water. You don't use the tactic of a follow up shot for cripples?

A bird that hits the water and only has a broken wing is going to out swim a dog anyways, or at least make for an extremely long retrieve as it repeatedly dives to escape the dog. I would hope that in those situations the hunter is prepared to shoot the bird again on the water as soon as it's obvious that the take down shot was not lethal, if for no other reason than to allow the dog an easier and safer retrieve without risking the bird getting into the bank and the dog having to navigate over hanging brush.

I'll give you a 100% true scenario illustrating my opinion on this, for what it's worth. This past weekend we had reasonably good shoots both days on water that I can easily wade without ever being above my waist. Two dogs with on Saturday, one dog with on Sunday, not because we needed them but because we enjoy hunting with our dogs. Of all the retrieves that the dogs made (somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25) there are only two that I can think of where we actually NEEDED them to do it, and both of those birds could have easily been passed up if we didn't have dogs that we knew could make the retrieve.

I agree with you in principle, that every attempt should be made to harvest a wounded/killed animal. I just don't think that the idea of forcing people to not hunt a body of water like the Boise river because they don't own a dog is a good idea. It would just turn one group of hunters against the other, and that's not good for any of us.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby waveslider » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:01 pm

MT,

I would tend to agree that the responsible thing to do is have a dog, boat, canoe, kayak, or anything to improve the changes of retrieving your duck. Its the right thing to do. However, I'm not a big fan of 'more" laws and rules and regulations. I am of the opinion that we already have a few too many and many people are either put off from hunting/fishing all together because the rules are so complex. Or worse, they just say "screw it, I'm doing what I want".

The regs already dictate that you need to make an attempt to retrieve your game, wounded or otherwise, which gives the officers a wide margin to smack people down if they aren't prepared. I actually prefer that vs. more regulations.

I see people shoot ducks and not attempt to retrieve them virtually every day so trust me, I know how you feel. It burns a hole in my soul.

I usually call the warden. Last year I saw someone shoot a duck that tried everything in their power (even dangerous) to retrieve it because they were hungry.

That person went home with 14 redleg mallards, a wildlife proxy, a box of shells and a handshake. Rare but it happens.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby mtbaughs » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:13 pm

I guess I am just tired of seeing it year after year. If a hunter uses common sense when hunting over shallow moving water, sure it can be done with probably minimal loss. Would requiring a dog or a boat unfairly inconvenience common sense hunters who for their living situation or otherwise can not afford a dog or boat, for sure. Would the benefit out weigh the negative impact? Depends on how it was implemented and written. Aside from mentoring and increasing the number of warden's out there how else can things be improved?
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby dams10ww » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:38 pm

Instead of whining about these problems on the internet perhaps it would be better to go talk to these people. Find who and what they are about, if they come off like d-bags walk away, on the flip side maybe they are young people just out for the enjoyment of being out and don't know any different. Being relatively new (5 years) and seeing as how my dad didn't hunt birds I struggled and fought my way to where I am today. Instead of the big secrecy about what we are doing, perhaps it would be more beneficial to take these unlearned youngsters along, show them the right way to do things, and then send them on their way. You don't have to show them your honey holes but I guarantee everyone here has a very public spot that they could share so these newbies or unlearned folk could shoot a few birds, and practice the ethics that you taught them. You'll be pleasantly surprised when you see the change in their attitude and who knows maybe they will be able to teach someone else down the road. When we start to divide ourselves we only allow the anti's to get their foots in the door and we will eventually lose what we have tried so hard to protect.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby waveslider » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:44 pm

Dams,

To be clear, I think there are several people on the forum that have done precisely that. The idiots many of us are talking about are not kids, they aren't newbies and they are simply unethical hunters. Sad but true.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby dams10ww » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:48 pm

Wave,

Unfortunately the actions of a few screw the rest of us. For that reason I have both numbers of the fish cops around this area in my phone, when I see something stupid going on rather than messing around with the hotline, I call one of these guys who actually responds to my calls and are usually very good about taking info and hurrying over to catch the idiots red handed.
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Re: Time to vent a tad...

Postby Love 2 Takem' » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:31 pm

HaydenHunter wrote:I sit up here in the Panhandle after we get frozen up and it is really hard (but certainly not impossible) to set yourself up for a productive hunt. I look at you guys down in the Snake River Plain with your warmer temps and higher bird counts and get jealous from time to time. And then I see a thread like this.

Fact is, although our birds are fewer and farther between up here in the Panhandle, there is so many places and so fewer people competing for them, that if you find yourself in a combat hunt you've probably been lazy in your spot selection.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I will take three birds on the strap from hunting at a spot I can enjoy in solitude any day versus going shoulder to shoulder with jackwagons for the chance to pass shoot a limit of scared birds boogeying through a shooting gallery.


I love hearing this - a man after my own heart! I envy you up there! I hunted a marsh in the panhandle over thanksgiving last year with my sneak boat and saw more ducks than I have ever seen in my life. I got rained on every day, but loved it - half thinking about retiring there. You are right about the solitude, and I am sure right now it is like the arctic, but I like hunting up there.
When I hunt I don't feel like I am killing something, I feel like I am keeping something alive.
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