Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

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Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby Tenner » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:28 am

Hey fellow fowlers! Question....How many of you are fed up with out of state hunters? I know I am...I mean I know that it brings revenue to the state and such, but come on...I have grown up in Idaho and love it here, we really have it made in waterfowling. So much open land to hunt that is free! I was unable to hunt today because a field we were planning on hunting had a bunch of guys from utah on...They paid money for it, we can hunt it during the week but not the weekends. This is the 2nd field I know of that they have done this. I was told that they came up writing checks this fall. They way I see it is if these utah guys are going to come in and throw their money around, maybe we need to petition to get the out of state license fees raised for waterfowl. Obviously they will continue to come up here...we should make it worth while for our state. If I started one, who would sign it?

As it sits right now, $97.75 will buy you a license for our 106 day season, which is one the longest season in the west if I remember correctly. Thats $1.08 a day to come hunt here. Thats cheap!!!! I think it needs to be raised to something like $400.00 Thats still $3.77 a day! People buy up out of state big game tags and they are not cheap! So lets do it for our waterfowl as well. People buy up Rez passes at $500 bucks to hunt ducks and geese out there...The Indians have got it figured out!
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby blackrock » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:51 am

There are definitely more of them coming up. Our fees probably are too low. That being said, I met a gentleman from Cache Valley on the river twice in the past week. He was a lot nicer and more appreciative of the resource and opportunity than some of the Idaho boys I've come across......
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:40 am

How many Idahoans go south to enjoy the abundance of fish and game opportunities in Utah? Not very many I'd wager.
So let's just increase their licence fees to $1000 for a season pass to hunt, $1500 to fish.
Tired of being Utah's choice of recreation...... at our expense?
We can leave everybody else's fees as they are.
I'm sure there would be lawsuites filed, but we can fight that with the increase in licence revenue.

I remember many years ago when Oregon increased fees to Californians using their state parks......and nobody else!
Don't remember the outcome, but it was tried as I remember.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby reconcoupe » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:14 pm

I'm from Idaho, and stationed in Kansas. I'm always an OOSER, even when I come back to Idaho, even though yes, I am privileged, by regulation, to pay resident rates for both states, I get treated as such by locals every place I've hunted since becoming a barrel chested, commie fighting vagabond.

Kansas waterfowlers often complain about OOSER's. KS has very little public land, VERY LITTLE. And the cheapest OOS permits/licenses that I've ever seen. It gets very over crowded, and here's what bugs me about you or any one else complaining about OOSER's, and the fee's they have to pay...

Its not your land. Its not your ducks or geese. Ok, ok, yes you pay taxes, maybe its state owned public land ect ect. But its not like they are literally given permission by the state to hunt your personal corn field.

How damn arrogant are you to even be so possessive over land; to think its alright to over charge a few OOSER's that can lease the fields that you can't, and in the process alienating other OOS hunters who may not be able to afford your proposed 3.77 a day.

Your right the Indians have got it figured out. Because after we STOLE Idaho, we gave them very small portions of what we plundered, and in return the fed's told them, go ahead and do what you want with it. Like Horsethief down in SW Idaho, they're hatchery trout aren't sterile. Great fishing, they charge what they want and its worth it. Much like the private land owners who have it figured out and lease their fields to the highest bidder for the weekends.

Idaho has great land, some off the best hunting, fishing and views I've ever seen after travel all over the states, and the world (everywhere except South America and Antartica), why would you want to be such of a prick as to think its all right to overcharge someone else to enjoy it, and yes, even 15-13 percent more for big game is overcharging in my opinion. Your position isn't that off "Idaho needs the revenue", its "i'm tired of competing with this group of hunters who can pay for private land, so lets just have the state charge them more to get back at them".

I'll guarantee you every peice of STATE owned public land receives some FEDERAL funding. All those public NATIONAL forests. All that BLM land. Its all federal.

Now, with my rant over, each state has legal control over its wildlife and its management with the exception of endangered species and migratory birds. Management includes hunting and subsequently its fee's. (I can provide you with legal reference to that if you need). SO yes, Idaho(government) has every legal right to follow your train of thought and be dicks to OOSERs, doesn't mean its right thing to do or that they should.

TLDR; Your angry that there are to many OOSER's and propose punishing them or limiting them by increasing OOS fee's and justify that by saying Idaho is to cheap comparatively to other states fee's and its an unreasonable to attract other hunters which support local economies. (200 hunters provide more to the general store owner, and county and municiplaity[ie, gas taxes] than the 20 who can afford your new fee's) :fingerhead: Makes sense.

Edit- I take back what I said about being treated badly in KS. Kansas actually has some of the most considerate and friendly hunters I've encountered, but they still hate legitimate OOSER's.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:58 pm

Didn't complain about all OOSERS.
There is a certain state that introduces most of the problems we're seeing here, and they know who they are.
Your rant won't change it, or excuse it.
Shame mine won't either.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby jdinid » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:18 pm

Fsbirdhouse wrote:Didn't complain about all OOSERS.
There is a certain state that introduces most of the problems we're seeing here, and they know who they are.
Your rant won't change it, or excuse it.
Shame mine won't either.


I don't find the mormons from Utah to be that bad.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby reconcoupe » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:41 pm

Fsbirdhouse wrote:Didn't complain about all OOSERS.
There is a certain state that introduces most of the problems we're seeing here, and they know who they are.
Your rant won't change it, or excuse it.
Shame mine won't either.



Didn't say you were, more refering to the OP, even though 1000 bucks is ridiculous. Your right, something like that has been done before and challenged in court. Sometimes its up held, but its often struck down, because the court finds it done to reduce the number of out of state hunters and fishers, or infringes on "privileges and immunities" both of which violates federal law, unless it can be proven that the reduction is down to protect a given species, which does not sound the case here.

I'm not trying to excuse any hunter, but to say that OOSER's are the ones causing problems is narrow minded. As jdinid and blackrock pointed out, they often aren't the problem. I've always noticed that those who travel long distances to hunt out of state, are often the most professional (not as in professional hunter) and respectful. Its often the local guy who gets mad some OOSER took his weekend field that ends up ruining some ones hunt or acts like a highschooler in the local public marsh because some one took "his" blind.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby reconcoupe » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:47 pm

Also, I have no intention to "change it", what ever you are refer to as "it". My only hope would be to maybe change someones views on how they perceive what is actually theirs and what is reasonable and justified. I don't feel that ridiculous OOS fee's are called for, but its a personal opinion.

Its unfortunate that the OP's opinion makes waterfowlers and hunters in general look like the greedy big brother who doesn't want little brother playing with his toys.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby Tenner » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:24 pm

If my statement made it sound as general OOSER's then so be it. What I am talking about is the fact that UTAH is so crowed with hunters that they have to either lease land, join clubs at very expensive prices, or come to other states and throw their money around. I have been told by many Utah hunters that we have it made here in Idaho, we get to wake up and go hunt wherever we want (to a certain degree) whenever we want. Down there they are to a point where they are going to start drawing for certain hunting spots. There are certain blinds that can be set up and each blind will be drawn for...Is it fair for us to turn into this situation? Is it far for us, who can not afford the price of out of state fees to go elsewhere and hunt? Is it fair to use who work are butts of scouting and getting permission to land to have it taken away by some people with a check book...To me I think its time someone takes a stand, am I upset about the one field yes! I have tons and tons of field to hunt... Field ranging from Burley all the way into Idaho falls. I have a good connection with people who have permission to land. So if i dont have it, I can get it...Sorry you disagree and have such bad things to say and think that I am against OOSER's, thats not the case. I think they need to pay!
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby dudejcb » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:18 pm

jdinid wrote:
Fsbirdhouse wrote:Didn't complain about all OOSERS.
There is a certain state that introduces most of the problems we're seeing here, and they know who they are.
Your rant won't change it, or excuse it.
Shame mine won't either.


I don't find the mormons from Utah to be that bad.

it's the Idaho Mormons that are the real problem. :lol3:
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby jdinid » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:33 pm

Tenner wrote:If my statement made it sound as general OOSER's then so be it. What I am talking about is the fact that UTAH is so crowed with hunters that they have to either lease land, join clubs at very expensive prices, or come to other states and throw their money around. I have been told by many Utah hunters that we have it made here in Idaho, we get to wake up and go hunt wherever we want (to a certain degree) whenever we want. Down there they are to a point where they are going to start drawing for certain hunting spots. There are certain blinds that can be set up and each blind will be drawn for...Is it fair for us to turn into this situation? Is it far for us, who can not afford the price of out of state fees to go elsewhere and hunt? Is it fair to use who work are butts of scouting and getting permission to land to have it taken away by some people with a check book...To me I think its time someone takes a stand, am I upset about the one field yes! I have tons and tons of field to hunt... Field ranging from Burley all the way into Idaho falls. I have a good connection with people who have permission to land. So if i dont have it, I can get it...Sorry you disagree and have such bad things to say and think that I am against OOSER's, thats not the case. I think they need to pay!


Actually, I was being sarcastic. I thought you were talking about us ex-pat Kalifornians. ;)

I can see your frustration, especially if you've been hunting in Idaho for a long time. Although I've only lived here a couple of years, I have deep roots that go back a long ways. I'm pretty shocked at how much land is now behind private fences and how many hunters there are here in SW Idaho competing for the same open space. I also also see the same thing when I head over to Oregon for pheasant. I pay $190 a year for the privilege to walk fields that have been well picked over.

When you start playing the "tit for tat" game, it can go both ways. If you only hunt in Idaho, you're fine, but. That said I don't know what the answer is. Idaho F&G is proposing fee changes, maybe they would take that suggestion into account.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby darb79 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:05 pm

First off, I am an Idaho native forced to live out of state, and I understand his frustration shared by so many. There are many factors that makes one have wanderlust and explore new areas to hunt and fish. Having lived in Wyoming and Utah over the last three years has given me the opprotunity to explore many beautiful areas and encounter many different people in the field. To put it delicate, we all suck some of the time. While some people suck more than others, we all have an entitlement mindset about areas that we have hunted or fished because of the time and effort that we put into learning an area and when we see someone waltz right in on a song it pisses people off.
I have been in Utah for the past year and waterfowl has always been my passion. Honestly there is fantastic public ground here, you just have to put the scouting time in and work a little harder to get to the birds, but the hunting has been fantastic. I still come up to Idaho to hunt with family and friends, as well as Wyoming (so many birds, so few hunters).
It all comes down to respect, sometimes you have to tip your hat to the guy who worked harder for it. Other times people with no respect for the sport or fellow sportsmen need their teeth kicked in.
If a man is alone in a duck blind and no woman can hear him... Is he still wrong?
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby waveslider » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:11 pm

darb79 wrote: Other times people with no respect for the sport or fellow sportsmen need their teeth kicked in.


Yeah, that about sums it up.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby cutm Jack » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:43 pm

You could always go to Utah and hunt like I've been doing.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby drakz » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:54 pm

you will find almost every time there is more to the story than just an out of state plate whether it be a person who grew up here or is actually really from here just different plates.

I'm not concerned about out of state guys. What I wish would go away is it being legal to Pay a land owner for a hunting right. Duck Clubs and Paying Farmers to hunt should go away.
is that my beer?
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby 10Tenner » Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:22 am

I think that the non resident fee needs to be raised to a price of at least $200-300.
:fingerhead:
Not all of us from Utah are rich. And from what I have seen in the last 3 years is a decline in waterfowl in your state, Idaho farmers are now practicing what Utah farmers have done for the last 15 years, leave no food what soever in the fields. This is your problem right now. You are fighting over a field that has some food and someone has tied it up. 10tenner
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby waveslider » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:37 am

drakz wrote:you will find almost every time there is more to the story than just an out of state plate whether it be a person who grew up here or is actually really from here just different plates.

I'm not concerned about out of state guys. What I wish would go away is it being legal to Pay a land owner for a hunting right. Duck Clubs and Paying Farmers to hunt should go away.


Please tell me you're kidding.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby goosepond » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:00 am

drakz wrote:you will find almost every time there is more to the story than just an out of state plate whether it be a person who grew up here or is actually really from here just different plates.

I'm not concerned about out of state guys. What I wish would go away is it being legal to Pay a land owner for a hunting right. Duck Clubs and Paying Farmers to hunt should go away.

Well drakz, and to everyone else. Im going to get on my soap box again on this issue/topic. If your tired of those paying for and locking up fields now, you wait till next season. By the looks of it, and its alot to due with waterfowlers not coming out in force and supporting the actions against allowing outfitting and guiding by the Idaho Outfitters and Guides Licensing Board that they are forcing down "ALL" Idahoans throats, you will see more of it next season. The OGLB is taking their proposal to the Idaho Legistators this session of 2014 and it looks like its going to pass and then wait till you dont have a field because its locked up for pay and then also see what OOS look like. I too have issues with some OOS but, since we have a legal permit/license program, its hard to not accept it even though we done like it.

But, if you want to keep your fields open and not have to pay, then your last chance is now to get it stopped by the IOGLB.

I know I, along with several others have been warning everyone about this for the last 4-5 years and we still only have a very very few individuals going out when they had public meetings and voicing their opinions against this, writting your legislator, or even higher going to the Governor and expressing your opposition to this action. For those that want to blame the F&G for supporting the Outfitting and Guiding, their position is and has been "NO" TO ANY OUTFITTING for waterfowl or turkey, but since the OGLB is an indipendant State Agency, they dont have to comply with what the F&G says on it, they only have to take their advice under consideration. And it this case, Im not sure they did either one.

Time is of the essence, and if you want to know what more you can do, send me a PM or even look up duckhunter on here and send him a PM on the issue and take action now guys or next season, I dont care how much land you think you have in your pocket now, when an outfitter or guide issues checks in the thousands for the property to hunt on, your going to be with out and the impact to even our public land and water is going to be greatly impacted.

So, with that, enjoy the rest of the season cause its going to be one to remember what you had.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby goosepond » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:19 am

Here is what I have sent to my State Legislators:

Good morning Senator Blair, Representative Anderson and Representative Vanorden. I am Rick Martin from Shelley, and I am a long life waterfowl hunter and have been doing so for over 50 years of my life. I am also a member of and former Board of Director for the Idaho Waterfowl Association. Over the past 6+ years, the IWA the State Wild Turkey Foundation and many other Idaho Sportsman's groups have been fighting trying to get stopped a proposal by the Idaho Outfitters and Guides Licensing Board from allowing commercial outfitting and guiding for waterfowl and turkey in the state. This is a very very long topic and complex, but, there has been a moratorium on this activity since about 1992, and possibly longer, that the OGLB is now wanting to ignore and make it so this activity can be done state wide. Over the past few years, and more recently, the OGLB held public hearings throughout the state and at a rate of over 98%, this proposal by the OGBL was shot out of the saddle by Idaho's public and the sportsmen of Idaho. Then late this year, because the proposal had such poor support for it, the OGLB decided to pull a stunt and make a proposal that they are submitting to the State Legislators to allow this activity through a process that had never been proposed until it was to late to mount a hard defense against it. So, to get all of the information you need on this activity, you will need to go to the OGLB website and see all of the information that has been posted up against this proposal, yet, they just keep moving forward, against the majority of Idahoans wishes. And to further this, even the Idaho Fish and Game has spoken against this proposal for many years and it is the F&G's position that outfitting for waterfowl and turkey not be allowed in the State. I for one, and the same for many, do not understand how the OGLB can go against the F&G when the F&G is against such a proposal.

The Idaho Waterfowl Association has put out two different online petitions against this proposal, and overwhelmingly had support against it. Here are the links to those petitions. In one petition, we had about 500 signatures both in state and out of state, and in the second one, we currently have over 300 State only signatures. How can we, the members of the public be so involved and against such a proposal and a board or state agency of so very few, only 6 members, and one is to represent the feelings and positions of the Idaho Fish and Game, be so right and ignore the majority of what the public wants.

With this said, I urge you that when this proposal comes before the legislature think hard about what impact it is going to have on the general public of the state and those Idahoans who have fought long and hard against this proposal, only to have the OGBL ignore any input from the sportsmen and women, and the Idaho Fish and Game and its Commission against this proposal and vote this action down by the OGBL.

Here are the links to the OGLB on this issue: http://oglb.idaho.gov/rules/promulgations.html

And the two online petitions against this proposal are: http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/5620

and: http://www.petitiononline.com/iwa12009/petition.html

I have also attached a copy of the signature page so you can see the support across the state we have.

If you have further questions on this issue and need more information, please contact me and I can help give you more and/or I can get you in contact with the Idaho Waterfowl Association Board member who has worked tirelessly and represented waterfowlers on the various committees and groups while the OGLB was evaluating what to do with this proposal.

Thanks for taking time to read this and to seriously take the Idaho Waterfowlers and Turkey hunters thoughts and positions into account on your vote on this hot topic and help keep waterfowl and turkey hunting in the hands of the pubic in Idaho, and not the rich and richer for the few.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby Tenner » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:00 am

goosepond I am right on board with you against outfitting...I have wrote numerous emails to my senator and some even to the big wigs in the fish and game....I just dont have time to go to meeting because of my work schedule, most of which being held in or around boise. I live in Pocatello.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby jdinid » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:11 am

drakz wrote:I'm not concerned about out of state guys. What I wish would go away is it being legal to Pay a land owner for a hunting right. Duck Clubs and Paying Farmers to hunt should go away.


Amen. But that particular genie is now out of the bottle. Keeping it under control will be almost impossible.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby goosepond » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:15 am

Yep, agree, Ive pushed and fought for the OGLB to hold more public meetings on this side of the state and we were lucky to get one last fall when they were considering amending their rules. All I can say is dont let up, and those of you who havent sent anything to your representatives, I encourage you to do it soon as the OGLB legislation will be on the table very soon.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby idgator » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:01 am

Tenner,

This is an interesting point you are making. I have to say that I disagree with the underlying premise.

You are upset that OOSER’s are coming to Idaho and taking away your hunting opportunities (especially these privately owned fields that you have free access to).

1. It seems to me that your real issue is not with OOSER’s, but it is in fact, with the land owners. After all, no one is forcing them take the money and sign over the hunting rights. I don’t blame them for doing this one bit … they need to feed their families just like I do.

2. You really seem to have this sense of entitlement when it comes to hunting for free on other people’s property. I don’t want to get personal here, but my Gawd … who are you to tell someone who owns property what they can or should do with it based on your own personal hunting situation or some idealistic sense of what hunting in Idaho should be. They don’t own property so you can afford yourself the hunting lifestyle you think you deserve.

3. You bring up the word “fair” … I’m not sure how old you are, but let me tell you this, at a certain point in your life you will figure out that nothing is fair. Good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people and the things you think you should be able to have or do don’t always workout that way … life is not “fair”.

You mentioned you have many fields to hunt and even the 1 field you couldn’t hunt when you wanted to (on the weekend) you can still hunt during the week. Count your blessings and go hunt another field and thank the folks that have the hunting lease and the farmer that they still allow you to hunt it during the week because many wouldn’t.

One other point, when raising OOS fees and the resulting decline in OOS hunters and revenue I trust you won’t complain about fees going up for residents?

I'm not trying to rip on you ... just putting this out there for thought.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby reconcoupe » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:11 pm

Goosepond, I signed the petition (sorry put US on one of them, damn auto form fill). I think the whole outfitting thing is a reasonable argument and it does not in any way aim to decline the sporting opportunities for any one (unlike the OP's petition). I really do hope the Access Yes program succeeds.
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Re: Whos tired of Out of state hunters?

Postby Blackfoot Inc » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:05 pm

Honestly, you'll should thank Chad Belding for exposing your great states tremendous waterfowling opportunities to the our country, all while profiting significantly from your resource.
I live and hunt in New Mexico, our state has had the unfortunate visit from the Duck Commander crew now twice (2007) with them just leaving 2 weeks ago with one hell of a video :mad: for profit!!! Next will be a rush of Louisiana hunters flooding NM once their video is released...Joy, Joy! Not that fowling opportunities aren't competitive enough.

I feel your PAIN in New Mexico :beer:
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