Carlyle Subs

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Carlyle Subs

Postby 1dktrkr » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:28 am

Just an FYI for any of you guys that hunt the Subs.

The CPO's are now considering the outside river levee as the boundary for the subs. Meaning "Do not sit on that levee and wait for the clock to strike 4:30 so you can go in".

We have always set there and waited for legal entry time in the past, and have even been checked in previous years with no problems. THis year our group and about 25 others all got served while sitting on our cans waiting for legal entry and discussing where everyone wanted to go.

I may try to fight it because that boundary is not clearly communicated on the website and there are no boundary marker signs anywhere along that levee like the ones that they have along the parking lots. How is a guy supposed to know what the CPO's interpretation of the boundary to the subs will be??? I hate to burn a vaca day during duck season to go to court though.

Just wanted to get the word out.
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby MOSSBERG935 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:36 am

http://dnr.state.il.us/lands/landmgt/hunter_fact_sheet/R4%20Maps/crlmap.pdf

6 Only walk-in hunting and hunting with boats without motors shall be permitted in the sub-impoundment area. No one may enter the subimpoundment area before 4:30 AM or remain in the area after 3:00 PM each day of the waterfowl hunting season.

I would say if you follow rule 6, there shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure where you were compared to the map outline.

Looking at the map, I would think the top of the levee and the sub-impoundment line are one and the same. As long as your not on the top of the levee I would assume your ok.
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby 00buckhunting » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:17 pm

Well I think its pretty bad they got to write tickets for that, but as we all know this state is so broke so they are going to write anything. Good luck with whatever you decide to try. also 935 where did you find that map and do you know if they have them for all there subs for carlyle or rend thanks
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby SPatrick » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:04 pm

its been like that for at least the last 2 years, possibly more. I know about 6 years ago you could get out before hand but its been changed for quite sometime. According to the CPO's you shouldn't be more than spitting distance from your boat, last year we were told you were not even supposed to leave your boat. I never really got why guys thought they could sit on the levee in the first place you can't enter the impound before 4 30, if you are on top of the levee you are in the impounds. Now if you were on the bottom edge of the levee, you might have a case.
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby 1dktrkr » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:58 pm

[quote="SPatrick"]its been like that for at least the last 2 years, possibly more. I know about 6 years ago you could get out before hand but its been changed for quite sometime. According to the CPO's you shouldn't be more than spitting distance from your boat, last year we were told you were not even supposed to leave your boat. I never really got why guys thought they could sit on the levee in the first place you can't enter the impound before 4 30, if you are on top of the levee you are in the impounds. Now if you were on the bottom edge of the levee, you might have a case.[/quote

There should be no interpretation of where the boundary line is. You just gave me two different "Interpretations" of what is allowed (not spitting distance from boat or levee is off limits but outside edge is good". I should not have to speak to the CPO to figure out where the line is. If you are not supposed to leave your boat then it should be posted all along the river. If the levee is within the subs then it should have a posted sign every 50 or 75 feet along that levee. I'm completely good with whatever they decide the line is, but they should be clear for all if they are going to enforce them.
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby MOSSBERG935 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:06 pm

Ignorance of the law is no excuse......

The map I supplied and the list of rules is what IDNR supplies to all hunters on their website. It's like speeding, if no one ever got speeding tickets everyone would be going over the posted speed limit.

Crab Orchard has a Controlled Goose hunting area. They don't have signs posted anywhere. Hunters are required to know before they go out.

http://dnr.state.il.us/lands/landmgt/hunter_fact_sheet/R4hfs/crl.htm
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby 709sim » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:26 am

Im glad they are cracking down on this actually. Think about it...are you allowed to go past the parking lot gates prior to 430...no. I was getting pretty tired of guys dragging sleds and layout down the levee in front of us while we sat in the boat. Do your homework and look at the maps. If the corp moved dirt to create it I stay off/out of it till 430.

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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby SPatrick » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:25 am

1dktrkr wrote:You just gave me two different "Interpretations" of what is allowed (not spitting distance from boat or levee is off limits but outside edge is good".


No I just gave you what the law is, and what I would considered to be acceptable. I am not a CPO so what I say has no bearing. When the CPO tells us "No more than spitting distance from your boat" that is the law, or how the law will be enforced at least.

MOSSBERG935 wrote:Ignorance of the law is no excuse......


100% agree, just like the people complaining that got tickets for shooting early, guess what its a law jack ***, and when you shoot early all you do is screw guys who actually follow the law. If everyone would wait until actual shooting time, everyone would have a better hunt, just because you have ducks there 5 minutes before shooting time isn't a justification to open up. I hope every single person that got tickets for shooting before posted times on opening day, also got tickets for hunting out of season, because technically thats what they were doing. Shooting 15 minutes before time is just ridiculous.

1dktrkr wrote:I'm completely good with whatever they decide the line is, but they should be clear for all if they are going to enforce them.


All you had to do was pick up a phone call an agent and ask, and you would have saved yourself a whole lot of trouble.
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby 1dktrkr » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:24 pm

Spatrick wrote:All you had to do was pick up a phone call an agent and ask, and you would have saved yourself a whole lot of trouble.


Each CPO could have a different interpretation of where the boundary is and therefore you could get 1 that will write tickets for leaving your boat at all and another that will only write tickets using the middle of the levee as the boundary and another that will use the entire levee as the boundary. The rules are vague and open to interpretation. Even the newer map (which I admit not seeing before the hunt) that is listed on the website could be interpreted more than one way. Is it the outside edge of the levee, middle of the levee or the very outside point of the levee where the hill running up to the top of the levee starts??? There are no gps coordinates attached to mark those lines. There should be signs.

There is nothing left to intrepretation at the entry points (parking lots 1-4). There are signs to mark the boundaries. That is exactly what is needed along the levees.

MOSSBERG935 wrote:6 Only walk-in hunting and hunting with boats without motors shall be permitted in the sub-impoundment area. No one may enter the subimpoundment area before 4:30 AM or remain in the area

This would also be helpful...

6 Only walk-in hunting and hunting with boats without motors shall be permitted in the sub-impoundment area. No one may enter the subimpoundment area before 4:30 AM or remain in the area after 3:00 PM each day of the waterfowl hunting season. The Boundary Line for the subimpoundment area is indicated by signs and gates at parking lots 1-4. In all other locations the boundary line is the entire outside levee for the subimpoundments as indicated on the map. There are signs every 100ft to mark the boundary.

Spatrick wrote:All you had to do was pick up a phone call an agent and ask, and you would have saved yourself a whole lot of trouble.


I did pick up the phone and call the site office the day before the hunt. The gentleman in the site office is very nice and helpful, however there was no mention of the levee being the boundary. And we did discuss the fact that I would be entering from the river. I know he is not a CPO, but he does run the site. MY POINT IS: The boundary should be clearly marked by signs. Take the interpretation out of the equation. Not all of us have a direct # for a cpo in that county and I'm sure the springfield office would have no clue how they are going to enforce regs down there.

btw the CPO that ticketed me was just fine with leaving the boat, and he was okay with the outside slope of the levee, but just not the top of the levee :fingerhead:

I am done discussing the issue though, pretty time consuming. I will make my case where it matters. My reason for posting was basically to save other guys from making the same mistake. Good Luck on the rest of the season guys :thumbsup:
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby clwalkin » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:26 pm

I'm glad to see them finally do this. There are plenty of places to boat hunt, the subs were designed for wade and shoot, not boat in cross the levee. The boat by river hunters will still have the advantage to the guys that walk in, personally I'd rather see an enter by the parking lot only to hunt the subs. And for the idiots that shot 10-15 minutes early, hunting should be taken away from them for one year.
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby E MAN » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:32 pm

clwalkin wrote:I'm glad to see them finally do this. There are plenty of places to boat hunt, the subs were designed for wade and shoot, not boat in cross the levee. The boat by river hunters will still have the advantage to the guys that walk in, personally I'd rather see an enter by the parking lot only to hunt the subs. And for the idiots that shot 10-15 minutes early, hunting should be taken away from them for one year.


you must not have a boat!! most of the guys that come in the south end do it to get away from the idiots and sky busters on the north end.
what does it matter where you enter?
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby wanapasaki » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:33 pm

Should be an easy battle with 25 others cited. Good luck to you
Give a man a duck... Feed him for a day... Teach him to fowl hunt... Feed him for a lifetime...Teach him in your spot... Learn to hunt a different spot....
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby clwalkin » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:02 pm

E MAN wrote:you must not have a boat!! most of the guys that come in the south end do it to get away from the idiots and sky busters on the north end.
what does it matter where you enter?

Yes I have a boat. I hunt both on the lake and in the walkins, hence the screen name. I assure you there are skybusters at all points in the subs. The subs were designed for people to walkin with parking lots and walk ways from there, not to use a boat from the river.
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby 1dktrkr » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:42 pm

clwalkin wrote: The subs were designed for people to walkin with parking lots and walk ways from there, not to use a boat from the river.


More interpretations, You have got to love it :help: :lol3: :lol3:

I know I said I was done with the conversation, but I just could not resist. :biggrin: I'm good with any rules they make. Just make them clear & unambiguous.
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Re: Carlyle Subs

Postby MOSSBERG935 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:27 am

Well, the map link I posted can't get anymore clear. The levee and the Subimpoundment line are one and the same. :huh:
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