Hunting in City Limits

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Hunting in City Limits

Postby KillerKowalski » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:54 am

Question has been raised numerous times. The article below was forwarded to me by a hunting partner during this season. Recently, at work we ran into the same problem Yorkville has and all was okay. A group is hunting a church pond with an ice eater within city limits discharging away. The church gave them permission and is surrounded by residential homes on all four sides. The closest house being about 300-320 yards away.

Officials weigh if legal hunting in Yorkville is dangerous pursuit
By Steve Lord slord@stmedianetwork.com February 8, 2013 3:16PM

"YORKVILLE — The rights of a local hunter here and the desires of nearby subdivision residents are clashing in a manner that could end up in a courtroom.

Residents of the Autumn Creek subdivision during the past several months have lodged numerous complaints with City Hall about hunting they say is going on almost in their backyards — and too close to the Autumn Creek Elementary School.

But local officials, citing state law, have said the hunting — which is being done by a local farmer, his family and friends — is legal and the city can do nothing to regulate it.

The latest entry into the discussion has come from Springfield, where officials have reversed what local authorities said and given Yorkville the ability to enforce its ordinance against discharging firearms within city limits.

It leaves the Yorkville Police Department, and Chief Richard Hart, stuck firmly in the middle to decide if it should enforce its city ordinance against discharging firearms within city limits, or follow what appears to be state law and leave regulation of hunting to the only authority mentioned in state statutes — the Illinois Department of Natural Resources.

“We’ve looked at the law, we spoke to the landowner,” Hart said. “The DNR says we cannot regulate hunting, but we can regulate the discharge of firearms within city limits.”

The issue comes up in the late fall, October or November, whenever goose season starts each year. It lasts through January, when the season normally ends.

A farmer with property along Veterans Parkway that backs up to Autumn Creek and the Yorkville Post Office hunts goose. He either hunts himself or allows family and friends to do so on his property.

The property is mostly farmland but does have a man-made retention area that is like a lake. The geese are attracted to the water and the food left behind in the fields after harvest.

Hart said that’s when people living in Autumn Creek begin to lodge complaints. They are concerned the shooting is going on is too close to the residents and to Autumn Creek Elementary School, at Autumn Creek Boulevard and Prairie Grass Lane.

The complaints go to the police, but also to aldermen. That’s why the City Council’s Public Safety Committee got involved looking at ways to possibly regulate the hunting.

But in researching the law, local DNR officials and the Kendall County State’s Attorney’s Office told Yorkville officials that only the DNR could regulate hunting. The hunting is legal because it is done far enough away from the school and residents.

“It’s never been any threat to the school, or any child,” Hart said.

He said the hunters use bird shot, which does not travel very far. That makes the 150- to 200-yard distance from the school plenty of room, Hart said. The law says a hunter would need permission from a neighboring landowner if a structure — in this case, the school — were less than 100 feet from the hunting area.

The entire area is within the city limits of Yorkville, annexed when Autumn Creek was annexed more than 10 years ago.

Yorkville has had its own ordinance since the 1970s prohibiting anyone from discharging a firearm within city limits, unless the shooter has permission from the chief of police, or is a policeman in the performance of his duties.

But, again, officials with the DNR told city officials that their regulation of hunting supersedes any local ordinance.

Aldermen were discussing the possibility of a resolution to legislators seeking a change in state law to allow local ordinance to prevail, at least within city limits.

Then, the DNR in Springfield changed its mind.

Attorneys for the DNR in the state office sent an opinion to Yorkville saying they could enforce their local ordinance against discharging a firearm, superseding DNR’s hunting rules.

“They reversed themselves,” Hart said. “The local DNR office was shocked.”

So Yorkville Police, armed with its opinion from Springfield, could cite the farmer for discharging a gun on his property. At that point, Hart said, “I imagine (the law) will be challenged.”

The point is moot at the moment, because the goose-hunting season is over. But the issue has not been decided.

“I imagine in the fall it will all start up again,” Hart said."
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby dduckman » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:30 pm

Wow, would suck to lose that spot, they miss spoke about the 100 feet from the school, i know they meant 100 yards but 100 feet would be a little tight :yes:

We hunt a field just out of city limits that has a walgreens,and speedway across the street, a walking path on one border and a neighborhood on the other side. We have been hunting it for years and are surprised to find out we can still hunt it every year, lost many fields in the area due to being in city limits within a mile of there.

It seems this place in Yorkville is in city limits and will be an issue!
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby sureshot 612 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:09 pm

it is similar to hunting the rivers,right or wrong and what day of the week it is. who calls and who don't . it seems like places like gardner are growing, so Braidwood look out. i think its the 5 acre farmer ,we had that in frankfort. why don't they look at there i-pad and not look out the window…...
just hanggin till season opens
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby Buckwild22 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:21 pm

It was my friends that the article was written about. Just all the yuppies complaining.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby riverrat47 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:47 am

The lawyer for IDNR is a 1st class wuss. If he went into a public bathroom and there were two toilets, he'd soil himself going from one to the other, not being able to make a decision.
My bet is that if the NRA or some hunting group jumped on him, he'd reverse his stand....again. What's the term they use? Flip flopping.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:30 pm

dduckman wrote:It seems this place in Yorkville is in city limits and will be an issue!

The state law is pretty clear, but when do they follow the law in Illinois. You can hunt in the city limits as long as you are hunting legally, safety zones and all of that. I had a guy from the DNR show me the law on time. State law trumps local ordinance, but politics trumps everything :sad:
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby QuackSmacker935 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:40 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
dduckman wrote:It seems this place in Yorkville is in city limits and will be an issue!

The state law is pretty clear, but when do they follow the law in Illinois. You can hunt in the city limits as long as you are hunting legally, safety zones and all of that. I had a guy from the DNR show me the law on time. State law trumps local ordinance, but politics trumps everything :sad:

If you could direct me to that law that would be awesome. Got kicked out of a great spot "on an island" this past year by a dnr officer due to city limit crap. Would be nice to have the law handy when I return to the spot next year so I can educate the next officer who tries to boot me.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:32 pm

QuackSmacker935 wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
dduckman wrote:It seems this place in Yorkville is in city limits and will be an issue!

The state law is pretty clear, but when do they follow the law in Illinois. You can hunt in the city limits as long as you are hunting legally, safety zones and all of that. I had a guy from the DNR show me the law on time. State law trumps local ordinance, but politics trumps everything :sad:

If you could direct me to that law that would be awesome. Got kicked out of a great spot "on an island" this past year by a dnr officer due to city limit crap. Would be nice to have the law handy when I return to the spot next year so I can educate the next officer who tries to boot me.

I so wish I could. I had it written down and for the love of God I cannot find it.

The hint at it in the article.

But local officials, citing state law, have said the hunting — which is being done by a local farmer, his family and friends — is legal and the city can do nothing to regulate it.


It leaves the Yorkville Police Department, and Chief Richard Hart, stuck firmly in the middle to decide if it should enforce its city ordinance against discharging firearms within city limits, or follow what appears to be state law and leave regulation of hunting to the only authority mentioned in state statutes — the Illinois Department of Natural Resources.

Local authorities cannot regulate hunting. Prohibit the discharge of weapons while hunting is clearly regulating hunting. If they could, it is a loophole to outlaw hunting. The DNR is now giving them that loophole to regulate hunting via this type of ordinance.
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Hunting in City Limits

Postby KillerKowalski » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:42 pm

Authorities can stop whatever activity they choose within constitutional requirements. I don't see local authority stopping hunting. Most give the drive by and leave (to satisfy the yuppies as it was stated). Believe me the last thing would be them getting cold or wet, which breaks the cardinal rules. Local COs will vouch that some local officers need more training about hunting/gaming laws. I don't disagree with that. Most municipal officers don't deal with hunters since every one usually hunts unincorporated.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby sabre210 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:27 am

I can't find the article, but if I'm not mistaken, the DNR has since reversed itself again... There was another follow up article in the local paper (within the past year obviously) which stated that whomever at the DNR told Yorkville PD that they can enforce their local ordinance against hunters was wrong. The DNR reiterated that they retain the rights to set/enforce hunting regulations and cannot be superseded by local ordinance. I'll keep looking for it and will post it if I locate it...
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby sabre210 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:39 am

Found it!


Yorkville: Despite concerns, hunters are keeping proper distance from homes
By Steve Lord slord@stmedianetwork.com October 31,Updated: December 2, 2013 12:45PM

YORKVILLE — A woman here recently said she and her family woke up to a sound they didn’t expect to hear in a quiet, Yorkville subdivision — gunfire.
But in recent weeks, the woman and her children, ages 2 years and 6 months, not only heard gunfire while at home, they heard it while they walked on the sidewalks and in the parks nearby.
They were hearing an annual rite of late fall in this area: the opening of goose hunting season. What concerns the woman, who wishes to remain anonymous, is that some of the hunting is taking place in fields that she believes are too close to parks and her subdivision in general.
“There are at least three different areas near our subdivision where I walk with my kids and dogs, and we encounter hunters,” she said. “I would like to help get a new law in place to help protect my family.”
Yorkville city and police officials have fielded similar complaints throughout the past several years in areas where subdivisions sprouted up next to farm fields that for years had been more isolated.
The woman lives in Kylan’s Subdivision on the city’s northwest side, behind the Kendall Crossing shopping center. There also have been complaints in Autumn Creek on the northeast side, where there is a pond and private farmland near Autumn Creek Elementary School.
In all cases, Police Chief Richard Hart said he or his officers have checked out the areas, and that they are within the safety guidelines mentioned in state law for goose hunting. The law says no one can hunt birds within 100 yards of a building — that would include a residence or a school — or hunt deer within 300 yards.
The guidelines are different, Hart said, because bird hunters use bird shot, which is light and travels a significantly shorter distance than the ammunition used to hunt deer.
In the cases Hart said he has checked, the hunting is taking place a safe distance from anyone.
“There really is no danger to the public,” the chief said.
The woman in Kylan’s Subdivision is not convinced.
She said she and her children have encountered hunters when they walk around a small pond and field next to Cannonball Trail that is a part of the subdivision, at the end of Edward Lane, which has a duck blind and hunters often hiding in it, and near Bristol Station Park, where hunters are often in the cornfield next door.
Bristol Station Park not only has several playgrounds and a picnic area, it has a baseball field used by Yorkville youth leagues.
“This park is secluded, and hearing gunshots doesn’t make a mother feel safe,” the woman said. “You just don’t know who is in possession of a gun and why they are shooting it. On one occasion, at least one other mother and I left abruptly because we felt unsafe.”
The woman also pointed out a property along Cannonball Trail — probably once the only property on that side of the road along there — that now cozies up to the subdivision.
“Neighborhood kids play ball in (a field there) and sled down a small hill within feet of his property,” she said. “I don’t think the homeowner has a clue that anyone is even there because of the small hill and tree line.”
While police have checked out the areas, just as they did near Autumn Creek School when there were complaints there last year, they and city officials are unsure what they would do if there were a problem.
Yorkville has a law forbidding discharging a firearm within the city limits, with very few exceptions.
But according to state law, only one agency regulates hunting, and that is the Department of Natural Resources. Last year, an attorney with the state DNR called Yorkville, surprising everyone including the local DNR office, by saying if the city could enforce its ordinance within city limits on hunters if it wanted to.
But Hart said the DNR made a point to call this past summer and say “what their attorney had said last year was incorrect.”
Hart said Yorkville City Attorney Kathy Orr is checking with the state on just what might be enforceable or not. In the meantime, the city does not want to take measures it might have to defend in court.
“If someone challenges the law, then we have to defend it, and it costs the city money to test the law,” Hart said.
The chief said he understands that people who are unfamiliar with firearms or hunting have trouble understanding the situation. But he said not only are the hunters at a safe distance, they are actually doing the city a favor by thinning the area geese.
Geese are a problem because there are so many ponds in the area. Indeed, the path to Bristol Station Park, the very park the woman is worried about, is a “minefield” of goose droppings, he said.
Hart himself is a hunter, and a firearms expert who is trained to teach firearm safety.
Last year, members of the city’s Public Safety Committee considered lobbying area legislators to change state law allowing municipalities to enforce their own ordinances on hunting, within city limits.
Hart said if the council were to do something this year, “I would think it would in that vein.”
The woman said she might talk to the council about doing that.
“They develop these farming communities now,” she said. “They are becoming heavily populated, and you have kids running around.”
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:59 am

sabre210 wrote:she said. “I would like to help get a new law in place to help protect my family.”
:fingerpt:

She wants to feel safer. It's pure emotion and she clearly says so repeatedly.

How many fatal car accidents happen in Yorkville every year?

How many fatal hunting accidents have happened in Yorkville EVER?

If she wants to protect her family, she should force them to wear a crash helmet and a fire retardant suit every time they get in or near a car?

http://www.city-data.com/accidents/acc-Yorkville-Illinois.html
Yorkville, Illinois:
Fatal accident count: 13
Vehicles involved in fatal accidents: 22
Fatal accidents caused by drunken drivers: 5
Fatalities: 14
Persons involved in fatal accidents: 31
Pedestrians involved in fatal accidents: 1

I believe that is from 1975-2011.

Does this bimbo get worried when she hears a car? Nope, but that is overwhelmingly more likely to harm, cripple, or kill her children and not hunters.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby 1quacker » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:32 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
sabre210 wrote:she said. “I would like to help get a new law in place to help protect my family.”
:fingerpt:

She wants to feel safer. It's pure emotion and she clearly says so repeatedly.

How many fatal car accidents happen in Yorkville every year?

How many fatal hunting accidents have happened in Yorkville EVER?

If she wants to protect her family, she should force them to wear a crash helmet and a fire retardant suit every time they get in or near a car?

http://www.city-data.com/accidents/acc-Yorkville-Illinois.html
Yorkville, Illinois:
Fatal accident count: 13

Vehicles involved in fatal accidents: 22
Fatal accidents caused by drunken drivers: 5
Fatalities: 14
Persons involved in fatal accidents: 31
Pedestrians involved in fatal accidents: 1

I believe that is from 1975-2011.

Does this bimbo get worried when she hears a car? Nope, but that is overwhelmingly more likely to harm, cripple, or kill her children and not hunters.


She should be more worried about her kids and drugs in that area. Run those statistics for her. She might be more worried about who her kids will be hanging out with in the future versus some guys who own the dang property.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:47 pm

1quacker wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
sabre210 wrote:she said. “I would like to help get a new law in place to help protect my family.”
:fingerpt:

She wants to feel safer. It's pure emotion and she clearly says so repeatedly.

How many fatal car accidents happen in Yorkville every year?

How many fatal hunting accidents have happened in Yorkville EVER?

If she wants to protect her family, she should force them to wear a crash helmet and a fire retardant suit every time they get in or near a car?

http://www.city-data.com/accidents/acc-Yorkville-Illinois.html
Yorkville, Illinois:
Fatal accident count: 13

Vehicles involved in fatal accidents: 22
Fatal accidents caused by drunken drivers: 5
Fatalities: 14
Persons involved in fatal accidents: 31
Pedestrians involved in fatal accidents: 1

I believe that is from 1975-2011.

Does this bimbo get worried when she hears a car? Nope, but that is overwhelmingly more likely to harm, cripple, or kill her children and not hunters.


She should be more worried about her kids and drugs in that area. Run those statistics for her. She might be more worried about who her kids will be hanging out with in the future versus some guys who own the dang property.

Or any of a thousand other things that put her kids at far more danger, but they don't make her feel scared. Just wait until they sail a goose by her, OMG she is going to freak.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby DuckMulisha13 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:02 pm

I would love to see that happen. The look of terror
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby xtrema13 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:14 am

Coming from this area I can say it is just people worrying about shooting because they have NOTHING else to worry about. One of my public blinds I hunt is about 30-40 yards from my friends house I cut through to get to it.


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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby Braidwood Hunter » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:20 am

Has anyone heard the latest on this?

Does anyone have a fairly black and white answer (based on experience) about hunting in city limits where there are ordinances about discharging guns and no hunting?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby xtrema13 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:17 pm

Nothing more on that exact one but we did have this, this year.Image


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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:37 pm

Braidwood Hunter wrote:Does anyone have a fairly black and white answer (based on experience) about hunting in city limits where there are ordinances about discharging guns and no hunting?
You are in Illinois, so there are no black and white answers other than money talks and everything else walks.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby Cajun1085 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:53 pm

You mean like this.....
Attachments
resident goosen2.jpeg
Resident Goosen.JPG
GATORTAIL 1646 25GTR



SouthEast Gator-tail
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby KillerKowalski » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:12 pm

IDNR issued a permit and the local ordinance was waived for discharging a firearm within the city limits. An ice eater was in the pond a few weeks ago with a five man group hunting it daily. All the church's property is located within city limits.

Watch ABC 7's new report on it. http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=9393629
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby Grossy23 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:01 pm

The solution is simple . Turn off aerators in suburbs , allow hunting in city limits to kill the dumb ones and maybe the smart ones will fly south like they used to do ! LMAO ! Wish we had the problem you guys are describing ! All in fun fellas , get m ! :beer:
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:10 am

Grossy23 wrote:The solution is simple . Turn off aerators in suburbs , allow hunting in city limits to kill the dumb ones and maybe the smart ones will fly south like they used to do ! LMAO ! Wish we had the problem you guys are describing ! All in fun fellas , get m ! :beer:

The giant Canada geese are not actually migratory. This subspecies of geese did not exist when they used to fly south. They were reestablished (I think they started doing this in the 70's and continued into the 80's) and they then exploded since then. They only move south if forced to move south by deep snow and then return as soon as it melts. This means we have massive amounts of live decoys in the form of resident non-migratory geese including those from around here plus all those pushed from the north by deep snow. Combine that with huge cooling lakes and that's how we got where we are. These resident geese will roost on top of the ice. There were a lot of geese, thousands, doing that near where I live for weeks. Then there are some rivers that haven't frozen that stack them up to.

As far as hunting in the city limits. You still have to obey the safety zones of your neighbors. My solution is to allow us to "hunt" them with non-lethal methods. Let me take a long handled net to work during goose season and take two geese per day like I could if I could shoot and those sidewalkshitters would quickly learn to fear human beings. Even my scared pansy ass coworkers that steer clear of the hissing geese. The geese are actually shocked when I don't break stride walking toward them on the sidewalk or don't stop when they walk across the road in front of my truck. I roll through, slowly, because I know people would freak if I hit one of their dumbasses, but I don't let them walk across at their own damn leisurely pace. A few months ago, I think one decided to test me and all I could see was his wing tips when he finally realized if he didn't move I was going to run him over.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby Blackcloud870 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:42 am

Damn right Spinner. :clapping:
threedogs wrote: wrote:One word, Inflatable decoys......

DanJeffandJack wrote:I just drink beer and crush box.

That's how I remain the physical specimen that I am.
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Re: Hunting in City Limits

Postby aunt betty » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:26 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
Grossy23 wrote:The solution is simple . Turn off aerators in suburbs , allow hunting in city limits to kill the dumb ones and maybe the smart ones will fly south like they used to do ! LMAO ! Wish we had the problem you guys are describing ! All in fun fellas , get m ! :beer:

The giant Canada geese are not actually migratory. This subspecies of geese did not exist when they used to fly south. They were reestablished (I think they started doing this in the 70's and continued into the 80's) and they then exploded since then. They only move south if forced to move south by deep snow and then return as soon as it melts. This means we have massive amounts of live decoys in the form of resident non-migratory geese including those from around here plus all those pushed from the north by deep snow. Combine that with huge cooling lakes and that's how we got where we are. These resident geese will roost on top of the ice. There were a lot of geese, thousands, doing that near where I live for weeks. Then there are some rivers that haven't frozen that stack them up to.

As far as hunting in the city limits. You still have to obey the safety zones of your neighbors. My solution is to allow us to "hunt" them with non-lethal methods. Let me take a long handled net to work during goose season and take two geese per day like I could if I could shoot and those sidewalkshitters would quickly learn to fear human beings. Even my scared pansy ass coworkers that steer clear of the hissing geese. The geese are actually shocked when I don't break stride walking toward them on the sidewalk or don't stop when they walk across the road in front of my truck. I roll through, slowly, because I know people would freak if I hit one of their dumbasses, but I don't let them walk across at their own damn leisurely pace. A few months ago, I think one decided to test me and all I could see was his wing tips when he finally realized if he didn't move I was going to run him over.

Best post ever!
Giant geese have messed up everything. Allowing them protection inside cities...so they can gas them in the summer.
Read up on how the state controls nuisance geese.
It will make you angry.
Its a racket like everything in this corrupt state.
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