What is your rule about crippled ducks

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What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby EcatMagoo » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:42 pm

Ive noticed that different hunters have different rules for what they count towards their limit. There are those who don't count lost birds and there are those who do. I'm curious to hear what rules you have for when you do and don't count ducks towards your limit.

My personal rule is the following: I watch the duck fly until its out of sight. If its obviously wounded and I see it go down(no matter how far away) it counts towards my limit.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby cluckmeister » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:09 pm

Ecat , Aim small miss small LOL I agree with your rule 100%

It goes with my saying. If youre there for the limit, youre there for the wrong reason
If you're there for the limit, you're there for the wrong reason
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby cyoung24 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:18 pm

For starters someone's gonna say they only shoot ducks that are in the decoys and don't cripple them, well it happens no matter how close they are. I shot one Saturday at 20yds and it sailed off and went down about 300yds out. I tracked it down but the walk sucked. I hate loosing birds but it does happen. I always try to set up in areas that are conducive to finding downed birds. I lost 1 bird last year that was able to swim and stay outside of gun range while I was chasing him. He eventually made it to thick grass after a 15 minute chase, where I lost him. Haven't lost one this year, knock on wood.

I personally do count lost birds towards my limit but legally I don't think they do. If I think ive hit one I watch it until it flys off or lands on its own power, those are not lost birds. If it goes down I look for it immediately no matter the distance, it's the law and I still count it towards my limit even if I don't find it.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby champer196 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:08 am

cluckmeister wrote:Ecat , Aim small miss small LOL I agree with your rule 100%

It goes with my saying. If youre there for the limit, youre there for the wrong reason


Couldn't agree more.

Possession is the law. But, if I crip one off or fail to recover one I count it towards my limit. To me thats the more sportsman like thing to do. But, I know not everyone agrees which is fine too.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby mudpack » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:38 am

I give a good effort to finding birds that I've knocked down....sometimes two or three efforts.
If I am unable to find them, I do not count them towards my daily bag limit. After all, it's called a bag limit (birds brought to bag/possession), not a birds-knocked-down limit.
To those who do count them towards their daily bag, I salute you. :thumbsup:
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby EcatMagoo » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:36 pm

What do the regulations specifically say? I thought we were allowed to kill a certain amount. Back when kansas used the point system a lost bird had to be counted as the maximum value of 100. So at that time not counting lost birds was illegal.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:54 pm

Here is the regulation:

115-18-8. Retrieval and possession of game animals, sport fish, and migratory game birds; requirements. (a) Each individual wounding or killing a game animal, sport fish, or a migratory game bird shall make a reasonable effort to retrieve the wounded or dead game animal, sport fish, or migratory game bird. The retrieved game animal, sport fish, or migratory game bird shall be retained in the individual's bag, creel, or possession limit, unless prohibited by regulations of the secretary for the individual species taken. Nothing in this subsection shall prohibit the catch and release of live sport fish. (b) Each game animal, sport fish, or migratory game bird retrieved shall be retained until any of the following occurs: (1) The animal, fish, or bird is processed for consumption. (2) The animal, fish, or bird is transported to the individual's residence, to a place of commercial preservation, or to a place of commercial processing. (3) The animal, fish, or bird is given to another person in accordance with K.A.R. 115-3-1 and K.A.R. 115-4- 2. (4) The animal, fish, or bird is consumed. (c) The provisions of this regulation shall not affect any requirement of state or federal law or regulation regarding any proof of species, age, or sex and the attachment of this proof to the carcass. (d) For the purpose of this regulation, “migratory game bird” shall mean any duck, goose, coot, merganser, rail, mourning dove, white-winged dove, snipe, woodcock, or sandhill crane for which a hunting season has been established in this state. (Authorized by K.S.A. 32-807; implementing K.S.A. 32-807 and K.S.A. 32-1002; effective June 8, 1992; amended Jan. 30, 1995; amended Oct. 5, 2001; amended July 25, 2003.)

I take this to mean a bird has to be actually in hand to be counted towards the bag limit.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby radfordc » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:51 pm

EcatMagoo wrote:Back when kansas used the point system a lost bird had to be counted as the maximum value of 100. So at that time not counting lost birds was illegal.


I've hunted Kansas since 1984 and I've never heard of this rule? I think you are remembering incorrectly.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby EcatMagoo » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:04 pm

radfordc wrote:
EcatMagoo wrote:Back when kansas used the point system a lost bird had to be counted as the maximum value of 100. So at that time not counting lost birds was illegal.


I've hunted Kansas since 1984 and I've never heard of this rule? I think you are remembering incorrectly.


I never hunted during the point system era. I was told by a relative about the lost duck counting as 100 pts. Its entirely possible I received incorrect information.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:05 pm

Ecat, Im old enough to have hunted a bunch during the system days and I have never heard of a lost bird counting a hundred points, How ever, there was a unwritten rule that if a bird could not be identified as to what species it was, it was considered a 100 point bird. So in essence a hybrid was considered a hundred point bird. This unwritten rule was told to me by a Federal Game Warden hunting beside me on a dike at Cheyenne Bottoms. He also said he had never written a person up for being over 100 points if they had a hybrid duck in their bag. Back then you had to really identify what you shot at, a hen Mallard was a 100 points in certain years, also I have witnessed that same GW write a ticket on that day to a fellow for going over a hundred points, this guy shot a hen first then proceeded to shoot 4 drakes. What the hunter didn't know was the GW was watching him. The guy tried to talk his way out of it but the GW said 1) I watched you shoot the hen first and 2) I can tell you the order you shot the ducks. The guy says prove it, so the GW pulled a thermometer out of his pocket and stuck it up each ducks butt, Sure enough the temps were all different with the hens temp being the lowest. I personally wish they would go back to the point system, it might stop a lot of this shoot at sunrise without identifying the duck idiots out there
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby champer196 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:20 pm

I grew up hunting the points system. If you did not recover a duck you were NOT done fo the day. It was just a lost bird. If you shot a bird and could not ID it you WERE done for the day.

When the last bird shot equaled or put you over the alloted 100 points you were done for the day. You could shoot a 70 pt mallard hen and then turn around and shoot a 100 pt canvasback for a total of 170 pts and you were within your legal bag limit as long as the hen was shot first.

Teal were 10 point ducks so you could shoot 10 of them during regular season. If memory serves me correctly Pintails were 10 pts as well at one time then changed to 20 later.

During those times you better damn well be able to ID ducks on the wing before you went hunting. Lots of ducks were killed and stomped into the mud in the bottom of the marsh. Seen many a hunter(s) kill 70 or 100 pt ducks only to return to their truck with limits of greenheads or a combo of 10 and 25 pt ducks and no 70 or 100 pt duck. Hmmmmmm. This was before the ole GW had duck sniffing dogs. I saw them go out and try to find them on their own but their attempts were just that, attempts.

WIth bag limits how they are now it's much better for the ducks overall. You still have to ID your ducks on the wing. I think that everyone should be able to ID ducks on the wing anyway. Your allowed 2 mallard hens so what is that single with feet down in your decoys? Is it a hen gaddy or a hen mallard.

Lets do this as well. Leave those hens for raising babies. Shoot the drakes. Its easy to ID hens of most duck species so why shoot them? Why shoot that hen canvasback?
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby cluckmeister » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:52 pm

Champer, you are correct in you definitions of the good old days, and yes at one point Pintails were 10 points . and later changed to 20. The problem we have today is that there are all to many KILL happy guys out there that don't wait to identify anything. Ive been out several times this year on cloudy days and guns are going off at shooting time, hell its so dark all theyre shooting at is silhouettes, there is no way to know what species theyre shooting at. I personally agree with your drakes only method except for teal, I don't remember the last time I shot a hen mallard, also we have a rule amongst ourselves, it , If you shoot a hen Mallard its a 20 dollar donation to Ducks Unlimited. Its been a long time since they received any money from our group,
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby champer196 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:26 pm

cluckmeister wrote:Champer, you are correct in you definitions of the good old days, and yes at one point Pintails were 10 points . and later changed to 20. The problem we have today is that there are all to many KILL happy guys out there that don't wait to identify anything. Ive been out several times this year on cloudy days and guns are going off at shooting time, hell its so dark all theyre shooting at is silhouettes, there is no way to know what species theyre shooting at. I personally agree with your drakes only method except for teal, I don't remember the last time I shot a hen mallard, also we have a rule amongst ourselves, it , If you shoot a hen Mallard its a 20 dollar donation to Ducks Unlimited. Its been a long time since they received any money from our group,


Thats awesome! I feel like I just read something that I wrote. You and I are on the EXACT same wave link. Nice to see someone that is a true to the sport. I hate seeing hens draped over the side of a boat or on a tail gate photo. I also hate seeing mergansers dead because I know darn good and well 99 percent of them go to the trash can.

I'd share a blind with you any day.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby cluckmeister » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:34 pm

champer, the reason we agree is that, old school, is in our vocabulary unlike the youngsters of today. To us the quality of the hunt or even just to go hunting means more than the limit. We both probably hunted long before flocked heads, plastic calls, layout blinds, etc, hell, even before insulated coveralls and doing jumping jacks to stay warm was the norm LOl

Id share a homemade blind , some stale coffee and a decoying set of birds any day with you and give you first shot.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby reconcoupe » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:34 pm

Not to get to off topic,

But as long as I stay within the limit, a hen is fair game. Interesting read.
http://www.wildfowlmag.com/dead-hens-do ... males.html
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby EcatMagoo » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:42 pm

There is definately some new data about killing hens. 10 years ago I would not ever take a hen on purpose. These days if the action is really slow I'll take a hen if she is cupped and hovering the decoys.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby champer196 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Interesting read I'm no biologist but I can't help but think that by not shooting a hen you didn't just save 5 more ducks. There is a reason we don't shoot hen pheasants too.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby radfordc » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:46 pm

champer196 wrote:Interesting read I'm no biologist but I can't help but think that by not shooting a hen you didn't just save 5 more ducks. There is a reason we don't shoot hen pheasants too.


You will save 5 more ducks if the hen makes it through the next nesting season. Studies seem to show that the hen will die from some other cause most of the time...or, better said, hunting is a minor cause of duck mortality.

Sometimes its near impossible to tell the males and females apart (geese, black ducks, etc.) but there's no evidence that shooting the females has an impact on overall populations.

But, it does make some of us "feel good" to pass on the hens.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby cluckmeister » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:20 pm

I guess Ill have that feel good feeling then LOL
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby reconcoupe » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:30 pm

I'm no biologist either, but as far as the hen pheasant goes I would assume that breeding habitat (being non-migratory birds) and natural causes have much less of an impact on the pheasant population than hunters. Hence no hen pheasant period.

Also, a majority of migratory bird species are monogamous and after a quick search I found this

Mallard pairs are generally monogamous, but paired males pursue females other than their mates. So-called “extra-pair copulations” are common among birds and in many species are consensual, but male Mallards often force these copulations, with several males chasing a single female and then mating with her.

I don't know about you but I do not support duck rape.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby reconcoupe » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:30 pm

And for the love of God, please realize that was a joke.
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby cluckmeister » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:11 pm

recon, I have a small pond across the street from me, it pretty funny to watch one hen walk around the neighborhood with 6 males following her. As for hen pheasants, the farmers I know have a rule of thumb, it takes one hen to produce 7 chicks, in the area I hunt for pheasants I bet we didn't see 30 hens in 2000 acres opening weekend, it don't look good for the future in NW Ks
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby champer196 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:49 pm

I'm not wanting to argue this. But, think about this. What if that hen you just shot was one of the ones that was destined to make it through? I just can't wrap my head around shooting hens knowing they are the future of ducks. Ducks and geese do pair up. But, if one dies the other goes right out and finds another straight away. Not much mourning involved. Its all about baby duck making.

I support duck rape as long as its between two ducks. Anything to make baby ducks and if it takes a drake raping a hen then so be it. HA!
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby mudpack » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:46 am

radfordc wrote:
EcatMagoo wrote:Back when kansas used the point system a lost bird had to be counted as the maximum value of 100. So at that time not counting lost birds was illegal.


I've hunted Kansas since 1984 and I've never heard of this rule? I think you are remembering incorrectly.


I've never heard of that rule either, and I started seriously waterfowl hunting in Kansas in 1962. :huh:
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Re: What is your rule about crippled ducks

Postby mudpack » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:00 am

champer196 wrote:I'm not wanting to argue this. But, think about this. What if that hen you just shot was one of the ones that was destined to make it through?

If you just shot it, then it wasn't destined to nest, it was destined to die in your spread. :thumbsup:

I regularly hunt with two degreed waterfowl biologists. They tell me it's been amply demonstrated that hunting mortality in waterfowl is compensatory not additive. This means that with the present bag/possession limits, we will not kill enough hens to reduce the hatch next year. I.e. the more hens you leave, the more hens that die from predation/disease, the more hens that won't find adequate nesting environments, etc.
Ever wonder why only mallards have limits on hens? It's purely political, not science. You can shoot limits of females of every other species and they don't seem to have problems maintaining population levels ( keeping in mind that several species are in trouble, but it's not because you can shoot the hens).
If I have a flock of mallards or wigeon or pintail come in, I'll shoot the drakes whenever possible. But, after the first shot or two, when things get chaotic, I shoot DUCKS and if I pick up a hen when it's all over, I'm not going to feel bad about it. I know I'm not hurting next year's hatch.
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