Waterfowl survey

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Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Tue May 20, 2014 2:15 pm

Today, I received a survey in regard to the up coming season and the date preferences from the KDWPT. It was a pretty detailed survey listing the preferences for the different Duck zones and also dates for the goose seasons. I hope when setting the dates this year, the commission will adhere to the wishes of the hunters, both in attendance at the season setting meeting and from this survey, and the recommendations of the State Biologists and not the preferences of commissioners Budd and Marshall.

BTW if also asked for suggestions on changing boundaries. My only comment was to put Quivira,Cheyenne Bottoms and McPherson in the same zone. Maybe if they did this it would cut down on a bit of the overcrowding on opening day.

Did anyone else receive the survey?
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby John O`Neal » Wed May 21, 2014 10:18 pm

Cluckmeister I haven`t received one yet but I certainly hope I do . Times are changing and some of the survey questions you mention need to be evaluated carefully. Hell in some states now you can marry your ole hunting buddy, fire up a fat boy and pass it around the duck blind, all with the Governor`s blessing . These aren`t the changes I`m referencing but just a somewhat stark reminder of the direction our country seems to be headed in . The changes I had in mind are directed to the shifting migration pattern in our state and how it effects the quality of our waterfowl season. Researchers from Delta Waterfowl have conducted studies recently to identify any delays in the fall migration. These findings can be viewed online at seasonsend.org . Data provided by the U.S.Fish & Wildlife Service Parts collection Survey was used to provide the information on the harvest of about 4 million ducks over the past 50 years . Researchers found there was a phenomenal later shift in the harvest of migrating ducks in the mid-latitude and southern states. Our own state of Kansas it appears has experienced some profound changes of it`s own over the last five decades . Records indicate that in 1961 the average harvest date for Mallards in Kansas was Nov.1st . but by the 2008/2009 season that date had shifted 28 days later to Dec. 5 . These figures are reflective of conditions seen by many of us here in eastern part of our state . Both climate change as well as the role of agriculture in the states and provinces to our north are considered contributing factors in this migration shift . Quoting Dr. Frank Rohwer ,president of Delta Waterfowl " We think we are finding evidence that the harvest is shifting later because the ducks are migrating later, and it has been a remarkably consistent pattern." What this means to us here in Kansas is we either adapt or see the closed sign go up early on some of the most productive parts coming seasons. So please keep in mind the results of the migration report when filling out the Kansas hunter survey.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Thu May 22, 2014 9:15 am

John, you've made some very good points and Im certainly glad this survey came out. Its a bit lengthy but worth the time in filling out as the folks put a lot into it. Please respond on this site if you receive it, none of the 4 other guys I hunt with received it but one did receive a survey on setting the snow goose season. Im pretty flexible in my opinion on the dates for the seasons, being retired I can go when ever I want. There is one thing Id really like to see and that is for McPherson, Quivra, and Cheyenne Bottoms to all be in the same zone. Ive never understood why they put Quivira in the late zone. Most years we lose the first six to eight weeks of hunting there due to the presence of Whooping Cranes and lots of years its froze up by the time they are gone. I do understand there are some changes that's going to be made in order to allow hunting there similar to what they are at the bottoms when those darn white birds show up. Also by having all three in the same zone it might take some pressure off all three areas.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby gooshnr » Sun May 25, 2014 10:47 am

I took the survey online several weeks ago. It had questions addressing many of things I'm particularly concerned about which I was glad to see. At least I know those issues are on their radar. I tend to agree with Quivira needing to be in the early zone. It would allow for more days to hunt the area before the whoopers show up, but I think the place will be overly crowded. My experience there has been not enough cover to hide hunters which leads to a miserable experience.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Mon May 26, 2014 8:35 pm

gooshnr wrote:I took the survey online several weeks ago. It had questions addressing many of things I'm particularly concerned about which I was glad to see. At least I know those issues are on their radar. I tend to agree with Quivira needing to be in the early zone. It would allow for more days to hunt the area before the whoopers show up, but I think the place will be overly crowded. My experience there has been not enough cover to hide hunters which leads to a miserable experience.


Actually having Quivira in the same zone would distribute the hunters more between McPherson, Cheyenne Bottoms and Quivira.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby mudpack » Tue May 27, 2014 7:18 am

cluckmeister wrote: I hope when setting the dates this year, the commission will adhere to the wishes of the hunters, both in attendance at the season setting meeting and from this survey, and the recommendations of the State Biologists and not the preferences of commissioners Budd and Marshall.

Don't count on it. At the last meeting, Com. Budd stated that no one should be surprised if the Commissioners ignore the results of the survey, because they don't like the way the survey was worded.

Also, the survey is a tool of the Kansas Waterfowl advisory board, which is made up partly by the State biologists, and is considered by the board when they (the board) makes their recommendations to the Commission. Apparently, the Commission just uses any excuse they can find to ignore the Board's recommendation and install the dates the commissioners want.

This year won't be any different than last, if the last commission meeting is any indication.

cluckmeister wrote:. My only comment was to put Quivira,Cheyenne Bottoms and McPherson in the same zone. Maybe if they did this it would cut down on a bit of the overcrowding on opening day.

Normally, I agree with your positions, cluck', but not on this one.
I think it would be a huge mistake to include Quivira in the Early Zone. The biologists knew what they are doing when they recommend Quivira being in the late zone; different place than Cheyenne Bottoms, different bird use. Tom Bidrowski has already explained that to the Commission and the public in the past.
They consider the entire seasons, when they assign areas to zones, not just opening day.

By the way, Tom says if you haven't received a survey yet, you won't.
Last edited by mudpack on Wed May 28, 2014 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Tue May 27, 2014 9:30 am

Mudd, why would it be a bad mistake having Q in the same zone as The Bottoms.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby mudpack » Wed May 28, 2014 9:02 am

Personally, I like having two opening days in two different locations on each split. I can deal with the crowds. I also like having a place nearby to hunt when the Early Zone closes, both during splits and at the season's end. Those are the selfish reasons. :biggrin:
Some of the biological reasons, the truly important reasons, were mentioned in my previous post.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Wed May 28, 2014 11:14 am

Mudd, I can see your point about having two different place in the zones to have a good opening day. Unfortunately as late as Q opens for hunting -being in the late zone-, in most years its closed on opening day due to the presence of Whoopers, having it in the early zone would give a hunter a chance to hunt the area before those darned white birds showed up. Hopefully the new changes that are proposed will alleviate this issue. As for hunting later in the season if the Bottoms is froze up, so is Q.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby mudpack » Thu May 29, 2014 7:33 pm

cluckmeister wrote: Hopefully the new changes that are proposed will alleviate this issue..


I just (very quickly) went through Quivira's new CCP, and didn't see any changes that address this issue. In fact, I saw no changes that would affect waterfowl hunting in general. This is a good thing...compared with what they were contemplating.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Thu May 29, 2014 8:06 pm

mudpack wrote:
cluckmeister wrote: Hopefully the new changes that are proposed will alleviate this issue..


I just (very quickly) went through Quivira's new CCP, and didn't see any changes that address this issue. In fact, I saw no changes that would affect waterfowl hunting in general. This is a good thing...compared with what they were contemplating.

Mudd, Tom called me today and we had a good chat about the pros and cons of placing Q in the early zone. He also mentioned the final CCP and sad to say they didn't change the rules in regard to the Whoopers. He also stated with the Whooper population getting bigger every year, it bound to take a toll on the number of days Q will actually be open to hunting. He mentioned that the zones were to be looked at again in 2 years if I understood him correctly. Its pretty sad that we have a area to hunt and out of a 77 day hunting season, we might have 20 where its actually open for hunting. He mentioned one year it was only 15 days.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby mudpack » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:20 pm

cluckmeister wrote: Mudd, Tom called me today and we had a good chat about the pros and cons of placing Q in the early zone. He also mentioned the final CCP and sad to say they didn't change the rules in regard to the Whoopers. He also stated with the Whooper population getting bigger every year, it bound to take a toll on the number of days Q will actually be open to hunting. He mentioned that the zones were to be looked at again in 2 years if I understood him correctly. Its pretty sad that we have a area to hunt and out of a 77 day hunting season, we might have 20 where its actually open for hunting. He mentioned one year it was only 15 days.


Yeah, he told me you contacted him and that you guys had a real nice chat. I trust he explained the reasoning for putting Q in the Late Zone satisfactorily.
I haven't noticed the Whoopers encroaching on my hunting days at Q to any great extent. A little but not a lot. Maybe they are down when CB is open, so maybe I don't feel the pain as much as I might?
As far as the increasing Whooper population affecting the number of days for Q closing,the cranes are either there or they are not, and they usually arrive, and leave, as group. Now, once the total population hits several hundred or so, we might see a "trickle effect", but I doubt either of us will have to worry about that.
Whatever the days ahead bring us, I will enjoy hunting Quivira every chance I get; it's a very special place. Perhaps we should arrange to hunt it together next season?
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:06 pm

mudpack wrote:
cluckmeister wrote: Mudd, Tom called me today and we had a good chat about the pros and cons of placing Q in the early zone. He also mentioned the final CCP and sad to say they didn't change the rules in regard to the Whoopers. He also stated with the Whooper population getting bigger every year, it bound to take a toll on the number of days Q will actually be open to hunting. He mentioned that the zones were to be looked at again in 2 years if I understood him correctly. Its pretty sad that we have a area to hunt and out of a 77 day hunting season, we might have 20 where its actually open for hunting. He mentioned one year it was only 15 days.


Yeah, he told me you contacted him and that you guys had a real nice chat. I trust he explained the reasoning for putting Q in the Late Zone satisfactorily.
I haven't noticed the Whoopers encroaching on my hunting days at Q to any great extent. A little but not a lot. Maybe they are down when CB is open, so maybe I don't feel the pain as much as I might?
As far as the increasing Whooper population affecting the number of days for Q closing,the cranes are either there or they are not, and they usually arrive, and leave, as group. Now, once the total population hits several hundred or so, we might see a "trickle effect", but I doubt either of us will have to worry about that.
Whatever the days ahead bring us, I will enjoy hunting Quivira every chance I get; it's a very special place. Perhaps we should arrange to hunt it together next season?


I think the reason you never noticed it being closed as youre probably shooting the bottoms up on the opening day of the late zone. I called my hunting buddy that tries to keep the records on our hunts and he said with out digging every thing out that he seemed to recall that out of the last 18 season late zone openers Q was only open 5 or 6 times. There was one year about 4 years ago, due to 2 birds it didn't open until almost the middle of December.

Hunting it with you this coming season might be something to think about IF we get some water. I haven't been up to Q to see how they stand with water right now. But regardless of how they are now, if we don't get some summer rain the upcoming season might not be very good.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby mudpack » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:37 am

cluckmeister wrote:Hunting it with you this coming season might be something to think about IF we get some water. I haven't been up to Q to see how they stand with water right now. But regardless of how they are now, if we don't get some summer rain the upcoming season might not be very good.

10-4 on that. We've been getting a little rain, but unless we get a LOT more, both CB and Quivira will be looking much like they did in 2012 come opening day. :sad:

Everyone should know that last year's abundant water was a complete fluke. Both refuges were completely dry in the middle of summer. Then we had the exact amount of rain (heavy!), at the exact perfect time (a month before teal opener), in the exact right place (Barton, Stafford, and Rush counties) to fill both places. Without those July/August downpours, 2013 would have turned out just like 2012 did. Let's hope the same thing happens this year.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:56 am

mudpack wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:Hunting it with you this coming season might be something to think about IF we get some water. I haven't been up to Q to see how they stand with water right now. But regardless of how they are now, if we don't get some summer rain the upcoming season might not be very good.

10-4 on that. We've been getting a little rain, but unless we get a LOT more, both CB and Quivira will be looking much like they did in 2012 come opening day. :sad:

Everyone should know that last year's abundant water was a complete fluke. Both refuges were completely dry in the middle of summer. Then we had the exact amount of rain (heavy!), at the exact perfect time (a month before teal opener), in the exact right place (Barton, Stafford, and Rush counties) to fill both places. Without those July/August downpours, 2013 would have turned out just like 2012 did. Let's hope the same thing happens this year.


Lets hope El Nino shows up as the forecaster are expecting. I hate mowing the yard, but if we can get the rain, Ill gladly mow it every 4 days. LOL
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby John O`Neal » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:41 pm

cluckmeister wrote:. By the way, Tom says if you haven't received a survey yet, you won't.


You are right about that cluckmeister. I contacted the KDWP office and requested to participate in the survey. They didn`t even bother to answer me . I`m sort of feeling left out ! No survey and no personal call from Tom B. :lol3: Seriously I hope you guys in central Ks . get your zones worked out to everyone's satisfaction out there .
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:26 pm

John O`Neal wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:. By the way, Tom says if you haven't received a survey yet, you won't.


You are right about that cluckmeister. I contacted the KDWP office and requested to participate in the survey. They didn`t even bother to answer me . I`m sort of feeling left out ! No survey and no personal call from Tom B. :lol3: Seriously I hope you guys in central Ks . get your zones worked out to everyone's satisfaction out there .


John I really don't have any heart burn about the dates the commission sets. What I do have a problem with is having an area that harbors thousands of ducks during the migration but its closed usually from October 24 to November 29. Its usually open after the 29th but most years its froze over the rest of the season. It would be nice to be able to hunt the area the first week of October like other areas in the early zone
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby mudpack » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:58 am

John O`Neal wrote: I`m sort of feeling left out ! No survey and no personal call from Tom B.


Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, John. I've never received a survey. :biggrin:
They tell me one out of four resident Kansas waterfowl hunters get the opportunity to complete a particular survey.

And Tom doesn't initiate many contacts, but he will almost always return a call. He's one of "us" in that he's an avid duck hunter, with a "howler" of a chocolate Lab (inside joke), and he knows the issues from both sides.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby MinneKans » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:47 am

I'm an out of stater and received a survey. It only addressed spring snow goose hunting. I completed it despite not hunting spring snow geese. I also got a wild turkey survey. I guess I'm on the list for KDWP surveys. More than happy to complete both.
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Re: Waterfowl survey

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:10 am

mudpack wrote:
John O`Neal wrote: I`m sort of feeling left out ! No survey and no personal call from Tom B.


Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, John. I've never received a survey. :biggrin:
They tell me one out of four resident Kansas waterfowl hunters get the opportunity to complete a particular survey.

And Tom doesn't initiate many contacts, but he will almost always return a call. He's one of "us" in that he's an avid duck hunter, with a "howler" of a chocolate Lab (inside joke), and he knows the issues from both sides.


Mudd , I bet the way Toms lab got the Howler nick name is as interesting as how my old Chessie got the Humper nickname. LOL
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