hunter and community relations

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hunter and community relations

Postby Professor_Leakey » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:12 pm

i thought it might be nice to have a thread to discuss this issue, without drawing attention to you-may-know-who.

how do you guys handle it when you run into hikers/joggers/walkers/etc....people out enjoying nature, like you, but in their own way? i know some would continue to hunt. me, i try not to shoot when nonhunters are in sight, unless i talked to them already and they know i am there hunting...and i try not to hunt in places where this is a recurring issue. i feel like it is pretty easy to avoid them, you might just have to paddle a little bit and/or get a little muddy and you dont run into people. when i do run into people i am always friendly and cordial. i say hello and take a minute to talk with them...if hunting seems to make them feel unsafe i assure them i am always shooting over the water and in a safe direction.

i do not agree with the in-your-face style of hunting...the eff-em-i-am-legal approach. briggsy was spot on, just because youre legal doesnt always make it right. we need to be ambassadors, in this state, especially...not shoving it in their faces. that is a sure way to see legislation at least on a town level.

99% of my encounters with the public while hunting have been positive and i feel like the people ive talked to have come away with a better, more accurate outlook on hunting.

anyway, i hope people will chime in on hunter/community relations and how to coexist in a state that is not always friendly to hunters.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Professor_Leakey » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:19 pm

the eff-em-i-am-legal "duck hunters" hunting parks and public beaches 200 feet from the road etc in this state will eventually lead to towns that once allowed shooting to ban it entirely.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby pequawhonk1 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:40 pm

Couldn't agree with you more. Sadly some people still are out for numbers regardless of the situation, it can be a urban area that is legal but ethically questionable or in egrious cases like I see with deer hunting baiting. To me it is suppost to be a time of relaxation and away from the modern world and how is that to happen if I set up 500 ft off a subdivision of houses along the water. Not to say the one house on the point will deter me but I will not go out at first light and wake them from bed. For that matter learn to hunt the tides if coastal and sleep in. There might be issues in society that I do not care for but I am not against but I can be swayed by a radical element of that group so that is how I look at it with hunting. Do not shoot game or discharge in front of other outdoor users as the last thing we need is one more enemy in this state. I believe CT has a statement on their waterfowl regs that hunting is a privelage and not a right and if hunters do not exercise common sense that privelage will be lost. All a town has to do is pass a local by-law like Somerset-no discharge of any projectile and that includes an arrow. Home rule is here to stay in MA and one by one we can loose towns and seaside cities if common sense does not prevail. Unlike RI where the state controls to high tide MA municipalities control out into the tidal areas and by-laws apply.

Thanks for the good post.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby briggsy » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:23 pm

I have had a few run ins with people out walking and jogging and enjoying state land during hunting season......I always say hi, try not to scare them if I am in my sneak boat and I can see them and I know they don't see me...two things stick out to me after each encounter...one, 99% of the people that are out there, have no clue hunting is legal where they are walking....and two, don't have a clue on what season it is...I politely let them know, and always offer some friendly advice ..I.e. Wearing orange or green vest or hats while out there...the state could do one thing to help the
Confused walkers, when they post the sign that says all the activities enjoyed there, put a sign right next to it saying "hunting/fishing" ......etc... Out in central ma where I am at, folks are pretty educated as to what's going on around them, but I can see where as u get closer to bigger populations, that may change....

I haven't had any real "anti" hunting encounters, just uninformed citizens....but like i
I posted earlier....I try to keep common sense and common courtesy in mind when it comes to urban areas

One caveat, I don't understand why we have to have hunter orange on the minute we step out of our trucks when pheasant or deer hunting anywhere, but in wma's, if there are rail trails and dirt roads that go through those areas, people can wear black,
Brown and white outfits with no problems....total side note but it bothers me for some reason....
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby duckstopper333 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:37 pm

It's difficult hunting in Mass. without having to deal with other "outdoor enthusiasts" sometime during the season. As far as I'm concerned no good can come from going out of your way to give these people a hard time. Be cordial, make small talk, but let them go on their way as soon as possible so you can continue your hunt.

For years hunters have always worried about offending others in fear that any altercation would result in more posted land and more closed towns. All you have to do is look around to see land that nobody would want to hunt and it's posted. Even in the Berkshires where there's a lot less people there's several towns that are closed to hunting. Many of the people that post their land or vote to close their towns never had a bad encounter with hunters, they just don't want people hunting or on their land. However, it's still better not to antagonize the ones that don't post.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby kjm1022 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:44 am

I have had zero bad encounters with the public while hunting my local spots here in central mass. I have no desire to hunt within eye-sight of houses or roads and highways, to me hunting is escaping from those things. I will add that all of my bad experiences to date in the field have been with other hunters. Over the past 2-3 seasons I have encountered more and more hunters with absolutely zero respect for other hunters and the game they are hunting.
I'm talking about setting up within 50 yards of another hunters spread, sky-busting flocks and crippling 4 birds to down only 1.

Hiding in the reeds 40 yards away with no decoys, no calling only to shoot decoying birds coming into someones spread.

Showing up to a deer spot they've never hunted in the middle of the season, with 6 guys to do a push through small woods where 4-5 guys have permanent stands, making barking noises like a dog to scare deer, squelching walkie-talkie noises, and think that's ok!

This is what I've experienced over the last few seasons and a lot this season, every spot I used to hunt in peace and share with other ethical and respectful hunters has gone to complete crap. I've all but quit duck hunting this year until I can find some new spots, probably not til next season. Fortunately, I already got a deer during archery but was hoping to bag the big buck I saw, which will never happen now after these guys drove everything from the woods. I'm all for keeping hunting alive, and getting more people into the sport, but this is the crap I just can't deal with anymore. I wish I could say it's the younger generation getting into the sport to blame but these encounters are with guys who are old enough to know better and by the looks of it, have been hunting for some time. These guys act like if they don't kill something their family is going to starve!

Sorry to rant on your thread Gary, but I think you're right, we need to be good ambassadors to the sport. From my perspective lately, it's going to be a tall order for hunters to look good to the non-hunting public. Any grief we get as a group from the non-hunting public, is our own fault.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Professor_Leakey » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:46 pm

no worries, kevin...those are all very relevant complaints. i have been fortunate enough to avoid bad experiences with other hunters, at least out in the field. only complaint i do have is other people using my public blind, which i have no problem with, but then leaving spent shells etc all over the place. same complaint for crabbers and fishermen, people are slobs.

you really had somebody set up in reeds 40 yards from you and shoot at birds working into your spread?!?!? wow. that is maddening. sorry to hear that...especially to a cool guy that i know for a fact has taken hunters out and put them on birds. hope you can avoid those types in the future. hey, how's the pup doing?
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby kjm1022 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:43 pm

Professor_Leakey wrote:no worries, kevin...those are all very relevant complaints. i have been fortunate enough to avoid bad experiences with other hunters, at least out in the field. only complaint i do have is other people using my public blind, which i have no problem with, but then leaving spent shells etc all over the place. same complaint for crabbers and fishermen, people are slobs.

you really had somebody set up in reeds 40 yards from you and shoot at birds working into your spread?!?!? wow. that is maddening. sorry to hear that...especially to a cool guy that i know for a fact has taken hunters out and put them on birds. hope you can avoid those types in the future. hey, how's the pup doing?


Leakey, I couldn't make this crap up if I tried. Don't you remember the guys set in the field less than 100 yards away calling birds off our decoys that day? My beef with guys these days is no common courtesy for someone else's hunt and skybusting crowd that is ever increasing, followed up by belligerent a-holes when they're called out on their crap. :mad: I am now on a mission to find the most isolated duck holes and deer spots in all of Massachusetts for next season.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby kmachstang » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:40 pm

I typically hunt as far into the mud as I can with the purpose of not seeing anyone. I do have one spot that is very heavily used by hikers. Typically I only hit that spot on days when nobody in their right mind would be out there... On occasion I have run into hikers walking around and I always stop hunting and hide my game strap from view unless they ask to see.

As mentioned above, sadly the only disrespectful people I have encountered hunting have been other hunters.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby JTR » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:47 pm

In a state where the liberal majority rules, I think it is so important to try not to butt heads with the public, to a certain extent. There are plenty of spots where killing ducks would be easy, but blasting in front of dog walkers and people's houses just isn't smart. There are laws to protect us, and I don't see laws like the colonial ordinance going away any time soon, but why press our luck?

I like to hunt places that are relatively hunter friendly. It just isn't worth my time to deal with police and angry citizens. I like to feel like I can shoot at a duck without some crazy person calling the cops on me. At the end of the day, I'm only out there to enjoy myself... Which doesn't mean that I have to pile the birds up. The only time that I feel bad about not no dropping any birds is when my dog is staring at me like I failed him.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Professor_Leakey » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:02 pm

kjm, i do remember that day and yeah that was messed up, but at least they were cool about it when you spoke with them, and 100 yards isnt as egregious as the 40 yards hiding in the reeds without even a spread. that is just plain, so-you-wanna-wrassle, behavior. it sucks that in a state where we are constantly battling public opinion, that we have to deal with idiot hunters, as well. im sure i am somewhat naive in this regard, as i am relatively new to this...but i am always trying to get better and to hunt in a way that does not negatively impact our pastime.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby neal537 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:39 pm

I visit, (or lurk here once in awhile), and when I saw todays ledger I was angry. I drive Wollaston Beach every am, including last winter and all summer where I watched a the large group of ducks who had taken up residence in the cove near the Squantum end. Many times I have thought, this would be a great spot, if only it wasn't so populated.

I grew up in Pa., in a rural area where school is closed the first Monday after Thanksgiving, because its opening day of rifle season for deer. My father had hunted growing up, but work, life, the times or whatever else kept him from passing the tradition on to me. We fish a lot, and I love the outdoors. I was invited on a duck hunting trip in 2010 to Prince Edward Island. I thought why not? And have been hooked since. I have not been able to put as much time in as I would like because of family and work, but I have spent a lot of time researching areas on the South Shore, (North Weymouth is home). And every once in a while I sneak out with my waders.

Each time I read about this guy, I lose more faith in how much longer we will have the current access we are allowed. People here are nervous around firearms, way more than I had experienced growing up. I feel that part of being a responsible sportsman is educating and/or calming any concerns a non sportsman may have. You can take the elitist/aggresive approach, but that will only result in reinforcing the stereotype. I can't hunt waterfowl in my own hometown because of a no discharge bylaw. I watched as that almost happened in Scituate last year, a situation, which was turned around by a collective educational effort, not a aggressive, my way is legal so shut up course of action.

As for disrespectful hunters, its an unfortunate consequence of the lack of a passed down tradition. Too many new hunters I meet are so concerned with dropping a bird/deer/etc. that they lose focus of the big picture. Some are ignorant, some don't care, and some are just outright @$$holes. The EPO's also could help more by educating the public, not just saying "They are legal".

I fully expect to hear about this guy disrupting a beach wedding, dropping birds in front of a whale watch boat with school kids on a field trip, or building a blind one foot over the regulation from the airport/Kennedy Library/Pilgrim. He doesn't get it, and we will continue to be lumped in with him. My only hope is that an EPO bags him on something. You can't be that idiotic and be totally squared away.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Professor_Leakey » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:07 pm

neal537 wrote: Each time I read about this guy, I lose more faith in how much longer we will have the current access we are allowed.


please try to avoid mentioning them. they pretty much gather around and have a big circle jerk every time theyre mentioned anywhere, whether for good or bad. i know it is difficult not to mention them when discussing poor hunter/community relations and arsehole hunters, but it can be done.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Baymen Moe » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:14 pm

Sounds like a common thread here among us and I applaud you all for concerning yourselves with the non hunting public. I have nothing to add. :thumbsup:
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Zone11-Dh » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:53 pm

I agree, I try if I'm not on a wma to sneak in and out of the woods and not draw any attention to myself.
Most of the people I meet are cool about hunting once I tell them what season it is and let them know wearing some orange is a good idea. Someone posted about only having to wear orange on a wma if your hunting and I've always thought that should be changed to all users on a wma. Rhode Island requires all users from day one of hunting season to the end to wear it. I have seen people on horses right at gunning height for pheasant not wearing any and have told them and the response was" I don't think you can confuse a horse for a pheasant" not the fact that they are sitting high off the ground. I always give other hunters space and sometimes set up late because of seeing trucks in my spots so I go other places that are more out of the way . Sky busters also seem to be multiplying !
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby mcroberts3 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:43 pm

Honestly, please tell me where you can hunt in the state of MA east of Worcester without being no further than half of a mile from a home or dog walking area. On top of that, the WMA's are full of people who are inconsiderate of other fellow hunters trying to utilize the area. Therefore, the idea is to be where other inconsiderate hunters are not. This may upset others within the laws of the state. It shouldn't be a matter of whether or not a town will shut down hunting in the area; it should be a matter of hunters being active in the town meetings in which these discussions are being presented. I will be honest, almost everywhere I hunt I can see a house, walkers, or people utilizing with a kayak or canoe. Hunting should be as accepted as it was 60 years ago. What has happened is that hunters were not present or active during the town meetings which is where the issues are being addressed. The people in MA will complain about everything; construction, sirens, planes, cars, everything. Yes we need to be ambassadors, but we also shouldn't feel the need to go to crazy lengths to please uneducated individuals. The local law enforcement and EPO should actually do their job and protect each party equally with education and understanding. Long story short, MA is super congested. Everyone should realize that the public shares public land with everyone, education is key, safety is paramount and compromising should actually be utilized instead of "it's my way because I think so". Just saying, protect your traditions or you will lose them.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Professor_Leakey » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:47 pm

mcroberts3 wrote:Honestly, please tell me where you can hunt in the state of MA east of Worcester without being no further than half of a mile from a home or dog walking area. On top of that, the WMA's are full of people who are inconsiderate of other fellow hunters trying to utilize the area. Therefore, the idea is to be where other inconsiderate hunters are not.


i bet you do not hunt heavily frequented dog parks. if you did, i bet you would at least probably get out of there fairly early once people started showing up...and especially when reporters showed up. you most likely wouldnt give an interview, either.

people in mass really do complain about everything. best not to gift wrap it for them like some others tend to do. i know it is the holiday season and all, but still.

i do like to talk for a minute or two with people i encounter...although i do not go out of my way to do so. it is generally a very pleasant encounter. it happened to me a couple weeks ago. as i was loading up my canoe a woman and her husband entered the trail head and stopped to talk. she wanted to know about the season dates and how to be safe...so i told her about shooting hours, wearing orange, no sunday hunting, when the season break was, etc. she thanked me and was on her way.

you make some really great points and youre right that it is a great idea for hunters to participate in town meetings. i think the scituate meetings last year are a great example of that, and i know there are many more examples.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Baymen Moe » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:07 pm

[quote="mcroberts3"] compromising should actually be utilized instead of "it's my way because I think so"quote]

I think this is what we are all saying in one form or another. :thumbsup:
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Baymen Moe » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:20 pm

Please excuse my quoting ability. :lol3: :beer:
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Professor_Leakey » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:17 pm

ok guys, so here it is, real life...like turtleman says, live action. yee ye ye ye

sorry, too much animal planet.

if you ask me, if it is an off limits spot and the land owner or in this case the abutter comes out and tells you to get out it isnt legal here, even if they havent posted it, you gotta go right? it isnt a legal spot but it isnt posted. what do you do? ethics 101

i get out of there...but these guys, whoever they may be, decided hell i wanna shoot a couple extra ducks so i can brag about it to my two friends...got the abutting landowners into a harassment charge, now...and all along it was an off limits spot that was not posted. sure, it was legal, but was it right??? is it helpful to the cause? i do not think so...but that is just my opinion. please share yours, no bashing just discussion. also, i am speculating based on what i read on an article and saw on the local news...i would like to know more details about what happened. airhorns are pretty obnoxious, but so are the hunters involved...so it could be a d bag olympics type situation. going for the gold. i really would like to know more about it.

http://www.patriotledger.com/topstories/x919114527/Marshfield-family-could-face-hunter-interference-charges

it may have been possible to talk to the landowners and get permission to hunt it...but now that would be very unlikely. the article says it was not properly posted...does that mean it was posted but they werent signed? were they just cheap arse no hunting signs from home depot? either way, i would move on if i was scouting. i dont look for loopholes.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby MIKE J. » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:19 am

Leakey,

In this case both parties were wrong, After listening to the defendants story on the news last night (with a grain of salt) it appears that the hunters have hunted there before and there was already friction between them. The Chief of poilce did say that the hunters may also be charged as well pending further investigation. It is the hunters responsibility to know if the land they are hunting is legal or not. We all hunt land that isnt posted but if you get told that there is no hunting because it is conservation land etc. I know the first thing I do is a little more research to make sure that is the case. In this case it was wild land trust and Im sure that may have been mentioned in a previous encounter by the abutters.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby MIKE J. » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:02 am

For all the nay sayers from several years ago in regards to hunting too close to houses, This latest event will set a new precedent with local law enforcement. legal Gunshots will now lead to charges of disturbing the peace!!! No doubt about it. It is gonna happen.

On another forum for the local waterfowl guides in the area, The individuals have been Identified. No surprises. The Hunting community is really, really pissed!!!!!. What a great azz-hat victory for the media whore and anti-hunting crowd. :sarcmark:
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Professor_Leakey » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:06 am

my opinion on this matter is admittedly biased due to my previous encounters with them. i do see fault on both parties involved in this issue. there is a map online that shows this as off limits and my gut tells me these hunters knew it all along. still, i do not know all the facts and details. interesting that the hunting party was spoken to prior to the air horn incident. if they were informed that it was not a legal area, but continued to hunt it anyway, i wonder if there will be any legal ramifications for the hunters.

i just now saw the story on channel 7 again, and the woman being interviewed stated that when they attempted to speak to the hunters that the group was rude to them and also started shooting their guns, not at waterfowl but just to make the homeowners mad.

this is speculation, and again, i do not know all the facts, but is it possible the hunters were baiting the land owners into a hunter harassment charge? one of the hunters involved certainly has hinted in the past, on another forum, and prior to this incident, that the scarcity of hunter harassment cases would soon change.

bottom line...it does NOT send a very good message to the public. this group is making far too many waves by pushing the limits and searching for legal loopholes. i do not agree with it. to each their own.

i mean for real. look at my sig line and tell me this group isnt pushing the ethical limits.
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Sshorearcher » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:52 pm

The area is owned by a private, non-profit land trust. Unless they post their land against hunting, it is treated the same as private land and presumed open.

The fact of the matter is that this group of "hunters" is doing a major disservice to the sport and the vast majority of us hunters that use common sense and common courtesy, and treat land owners with respect. Their actions are, mark my words, going to end up swaying public opinion against hunters enough locally, that towns will begin to pass even more restrictive bylaws and, perhaps, even gain enough momentum to increase discharge setbacks statewide.

It is time, in my opinion, for all of the intelligent, respectful hunters to let their voices be heard and not be afraid to speak out in public (to newspapers, media, etc.) that we do not condone the type of actions that this small group of hunters have repeatedly been involved in.

Im all for legal hunting, and generally feel that we should all remain united as sportsmen, but sometimes it makes more sense to weed out the bad apples that threaten the very sport that we all hold so dear to our hearts. :mad:
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Re: hunter and community relations

Postby Baymen Moe » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:22 pm

Extremely well said archer. Those are my thoughts exactly.
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