Bag limit of ducks

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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:45 am

Papachessie wrote:Fundamentals aren't laws. Either your breaking the law, or your following it. Period. You can argue fundamentals and moot laws all you want. It's still the law.

spirit of the law vs. letter of the law papa... :thumbsup:
If I "gift" birds to relatives so as not to exceed the "possession limit" at my residence, I'm within the law. after I eat all the birds in my freezer and my relatives "gift" the birds back to me, I'm still within the law. My point is this-what difference does it make which freezer they are in?
Last edited by Indaswamp on Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby quackerattacker » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:48 am

Papachessie wrote:...Some people will kill and kill and kill (and I know some) just because they can, even if they know they'll never use what they've got.


I believe ya nailed it right there, Papa'. Seems to me the only reason Congress after Congress hasn't changed it and the reason they're only willing to consider relaxin' it a little now, is because they intend for it to be used as a way of taggin' out for a time. They uphold our privilege to hunt waterfowl, they just don't want us bein' too good at it.

Oh, and as far as usin' lack of intent as a way out...forget it. Researched a little and learned the courts have determined that Congress imposed strict liability standards for possession violations. So you can't use ignorance, accidental, nor any other unintentional consequence as a defense. Papa' is therefore correct. This throws your intent defense for game violations out the window. Let's face it, intent or not, Congress says all waterfowl hunters are poachers. :yes:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:51 am

quackerattacker wrote:
Papachessie wrote:...Some people will kill and kill and kill (and I know some) just because they can, even if they know they'll never use what they've got.


I believe ya nailed it right there, Papa'. Seems to me the only reason Congress after Congress hasn't changed it and the reason they're only willing to consider relaxin' it a little now, is because they intend for it to be used as a way of taggin' out for a time. They uphold our privilege to hunt waterfowl, they just don't want us bein' too good at it.

Oh, and as far as usin' lack of intent as a way out...forget it. Researched a little and learned the courts have determined that Congress imposed strict liability standards for possession violations. So you can't use ignorance, accidental, nor any other unintentional consequence as a defense. Papa' is therefore correct. This throws your intent defense for game violations out the window. Let's face it, intent or not, Congress says all waterfowl hunters are poachers. :yes:

then why the "gift" statute? if someone wanted to shoot birds everyday-they could still do so and gift the birds to a soup kitchen and be legal. seems that if they wanted to reduce the take of one individual they would impose a total season limit...(which I agree would be hard to impose anyways...)
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby quackerattacker » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:58 am

I figure it's just the best they can come up with, short of lowering limits and seasons. Which does nothin' but make the boys with the money b1tch and moan about lost revenue. You're right, Inda, the people that will benefit most from the one extra limit in possession are the outfitters, as clients can stay that extra day. They'll still not be searchin' our freezers and we know it. :mad:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:00 am

so tell me about papa's spoonies...been waitin to hear that one.. :lol3: :thumbsup:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby quackerattacker » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:01 am

:lol3:

I'll post some pics and start a thread tonite!
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby charlie beard » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:02 am

If you ever get checked by the Feds. it is because you @issed someone off and they dropped a dime on you.
Trust me I have been there and checked. They took everything out of both freezers and when they were satisfied they said sorry to of bothered you. Then I had to put the stuff back. By the way they do not need a search warrant.
Feds. have better things to do than go checking freezers at random.

A friend of mine got searched a few years ago and a fine for too many ducks.
Just because he was in a bar running his mouth saying we need to have a game feed I got ducks out the arse in the freezer.
Three days later he had two Feds. ring the door bell. $1,250 plus Federal court cost and one year probation. :fingerhead:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:09 am

charlie beard wrote:If you ever get checked by the Feds. it is because you @issed someone off and they dropped a dime on you.
Trust me I have been there and checked. They took everything out of both freezers and when they were satisfied they said sorry to of bothered you. Then I had to put the stuff back. By the way they do not need a search warrant.
Feds. have better things to do than go checking freezers at random.

A friend of mine got searched a few years ago and a fine for too many ducks.
Just because he was in a bar running his mouth saying we need to have a game feed I got ducks out the arse in the freezer.
Three days later he had two Feds. ring the door bell. $1,250 plus Federal court cost and one year probation. :fingerhead:

good thing I'm not over the limit in my freezers... :thumbsup:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby WTN10 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:12 am

I am really curious about how a Federal agent doesn't need a search warrant to search your refridgerator under the 4th Amendment. I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just curious as to what legal loophole has been created for them. The text of the 4th would prevent this sort of thing out of hand. As innumerable court opinions state, "warrantless searches and seizures are presumptively unreasonable."
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby jaysweet3 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:12 pm

WTN10 wrote:I am really curious about how a Federal agent doesn't need a search warrant to search your refridgerator under the 4th Amendment. I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just curious as to what legal loophole has been created for them. The text of the 4th would prevent this sort of thing out of hand. As innumerable court opinions state, "warrantless searches and seizures are presumptively unreasonable."


I have also heard this, but it's just not true. I hunt with a lot of police officers, they confirmed that it's just an old tale. If a fed orother game warden searches a freezer it's because they got permission or had a warrant.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby WTN10 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:18 pm

That's what I'd think would have to happen. Consent doesn't have to be formalized or informed. A Game Warden doesn't have to say, "I can't look in your freezer unless I have a warrant or get your consent. Being that I don't have a warrant, will you please allow me to look in your freezer? If you say no, that's ok. I'll just go away." It could be simply "Mind if I look in your freezer?" while sporting his identification and anything else he can think of to show his authority.

I'd think the same thing for locked trucks or coolers locked in your truck.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby charlie beard » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:38 pm

WTN
Good point. I am sure someone on here has an answer.
I do know this my friend asked the Feds. if they had a search warrant, the reply we do not need one.
Do you want to do this the hard way or the easy way?
He did contact the sheriff later and was told they have way more power than I do.
If I would of been there and went in with them without a search warrant it most likely would have been thrown out of court.
I have also been told that your State Wardens do not need a search warrant.
So maybe someone on here has the correct answer on this.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby QH's Paw » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:43 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
QH's Paw wrote:I don't see why people are willing to accept 3X daily as a possession limit.
Why not get real and say possession limit ends at permanent residence? :huh:
I still don't see how they would prove number of birds that have been processed into sausage of any kind.

if you have made sausage with 'em and froze it, you have broken the law with regard to the way the FED's view possession limits anyway. must have an attached wing and be tagged remember...that is why most Game wardens in Louisiana will not push possession limits past your personal residence. you break the law when you prepare them to be frozen-even if you only have 2 days worth of birds. :hi:

Inda, from the book(regs), that only applies while in the field.
Here it is from the book.
"No person shall disguise the sex or kind
of any game bird. The feathered head
must be left attached to all upland game
birds in the field or while in transit. The
head or one fully feathered wing must be
left attached to all waterfowl, snipe, doves
and pigeons in the field or while in transit."

There is no law, federal or otherwise, that dictates you can not process birds into sausage or dog food.
So your not comparing apples and oranges, your comparing apples and watermelons. :hi:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:45 pm

QH's Paw wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
QH's Paw wrote:I don't see why people are willing to accept 3X daily as a possession limit.
Why not get real and say possession limit ends at permanent residence? :huh:
I still don't see how they would prove number of birds that have been processed into sausage of any kind.

if you have made sausage with 'em and froze it, you have broken the law with regard to the way the FED's view possession limits anyway. must have an attached wing and be tagged remember...that is why most Game wardens in Louisiana will not push possession limits past your personal residence. you break the law when you prepare them to be frozen-even if you only have 2 days worth of birds. :hi:

Inda, from the book(regs), that only applies while in the field.
Here it is from the book.
"No person shall disguise the sex or kind
of any game bird. The feathered head
must be left attached to all upland game
birds in the field or while in transit. The
head or one fully feathered wing must be
left attached to all waterfowl, snipe, doves
and pigeons in the field or while in transit."

There is no law, federal or otherwise, that dictates you can not process birds into sausage or dog food.
So your not comparing apples and oranges, your comparing apples and watermelons. :hi:

then explain how the hell they know how many birds you have ground up into sausage...if possession limits cover what's in your freezer...
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:57 pm

my point being that either possession limits apply to your home-or they don't. And if they do-then you have to maintain proper tagging and a feathered wing for I.D.ing purposes. Once a bird is breasted out and frozen-you have broken the possession law as written.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby QH's Paw » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:59 pm

QH's Paw wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
QH's Paw wrote:I don't see why people are willing to accept 3X daily as a possession limit.
Why not get real and say possession limit ends at permanent residence? :huh:
I still don't see how they would prove number of birds that have been processed into sausage of any kind.

if you have made sausage with 'em and froze it, you have broken the law with regard to the way the FED's view possession limits anyway. must have an attached wing and be tagged remember...that is why most Game wardens in Louisiana will not push possession limits past your personal residence. you break the law when you prepare them to be frozen-even if you only have 2 days worth of birds. :hi:

Inda, from the book(regs), that only applies while in the field.
Here it is from the book.
"No person shall disguise the sex or kind
of any game bird. The feathered head
must be left attached to all upland game
birds in the field or while in transit. The
head or one fully feathered wing must be
left attached to all waterfowl, snipe, doves
and pigeons in the field or while in transit."

There is no law, federal or otherwise, that dictates you can not process birds into sausage or dog food.
So your not comparing apples and oranges, your comparing apples and watermelons. :hi:

Indaswamp wrote:then explain how the hell they know how many birds you have ground up into sausage...if possession limits cover what's in your freezer...

That was the last question I asked in the first reply of mine you quoted. Also, what if I have partial birds, do they add up all my half birds or bird legs and breast or, is each part from seperate birds count as a bird?
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby WTN10 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:01 pm

charlie beard wrote:WTN
Good point. I am sure someone on here has an answer.
I do know this my friend asked the Feds. if they had a search warrant, the reply we do not need one.
Do you want to do this the hard way or the easy way?
He did contact the sheriff later and was told they have way more power than I do.
If I would of been there and went in with them without a search warrant it most likely would have been thrown out of court.
I have also been told that your State Wardens do not need a search warrant.
So maybe someone on here has the correct answer on this.


I'll see if I can get westlaw access and do a little research. Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:04 pm

QH- this is exactly why the law is asinine... to punish people for proper storing of food in accordance with established practices that predate the law is ludicrous.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Preacher1011 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:06 pm

WTN10 wrote:
charlie beard wrote:WTN
Good point. I am sure someone on here has an answer.
I do know this my friend asked the Feds. if they had a search warrant, the reply we do not need one.
Do you want to do this the hard way or the easy way?
He did contact the sheriff later and was told they have way more power than I do.
If I would of been there and went in with them without a search warrant it most likely would have been thrown out of court.
I have also been told that your State Wardens do not need a search warrant.
So maybe someone on here has the correct answer on this.


I'll see if I can get westlaw access and do a little research. Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.


They do need a search warrant. I've asked our state wildlife resources agency when I had my law class, and they said that they had to have a search warrant. Watch that show on NGC "Wild Justice" they have search warrants (I'm not going solely off of a TV show here though, just an example). You can't just walk into a house and search it. Nothing would stick in court. It's against the 4th amendment of the Constitution, no unlawful search and seizure.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:37 pm

O.K. people...try this one...
Snow geese have a regular and a conservation season.
regular season there is a possession limit-same as all other waterfowl.
conservation season, there is not a daily bag limit or possession limit.
How do you square the rules as to how it applies at your residence and birds in your freezer??
how does the game warden know which ones were shot when. and is the possession limit enforceable later in the year-even when some of the geese were shot during the conservation season. :huh:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby QH's Paw » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:02 pm

Indaswamp wrote:QH- this is exactly why the law is asinine... to punish people for proper storing of food in accordance with established practices that predate the law is ludicrous.

Inda, no doubt we are in agreement about that.
Why apply any possession limits to permanent residence?
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Sandman3400 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:06 pm

The reason for the law is really very simple. They want to limit the number of ducks that we kill to a sustainable amount. Now, you might ask, "Why not just make one law that limits the number of ducks we kill in a day or a year?". If you were to ask such a question, then you would simply be showing how naive you really are. If you pay any attention to the workings of your government, than you would know that they never settle for one rule or law or regulation when they can create 500 (or 5000) that do the same thing. I just looked over my 2010 regulations. They tell me that I can shoot 6 ducks per day from Nov. 20 through Jan. 30 with a 13 day split in the middle. Then there is another 7-7/8 pages that tell me how many different ways that I can or cannot kill 6 ducks per day. :help:

Bag limits are determined based on a worst case scenario so that the harvest will not hurt the population. We can all shoot a limit every day of the season and it won't do any damage to the duck population (beyond the next breeding cycle). So tell me, if that is the case why is it so important that I not pull out my trusty machine gun and shoot my 6 ducks with that (which the regs EXPLICITLY state that I SHALL NOT DO!)? Or by drugging them (which the regs also say I SHALL NOT DO!)? Isn't six ducks still six ducks whether I shoot them with a shotgun or drop a hydrogen bomb on them? Does 6 ducks actually equal 18 when taken with a pistol (what knucklehead thinks duck hunting with a pistol gives you some advantage over the schmucks using shotguns?)? :no:

Wouldn't we save a lot of tax dollars if our government printed regulations that stated, "You can shoot 6 ducks per day from Nov. 20 through Jan. 30 with a 13 day split in the middle." And wouldn't we save a lot of time not getting into discussions like this? :hammer:

I don have one bit of good news. It used to be illegal to hunt ducks with a bow and arrows, but I now see that is no longer in the list of prohibited weapons. Looks like I now have the secret weapon! I am going to load up on them next year! All you suckers just keep using those shotguns!
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Preacher1011 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:22 pm

That law most likely has to do with the lethality to others. A shotgun isn't lethal at a long distance. Pistol and rifle rounds can be lethal for miles and they will ricochet off the water and keep going. You use your bow, I'm going to stick to killing ducks. I miss, my shell costs $1, you miss and you're out 5 or more. Plus hunting with a bow, if you shoot one and it flies off with an arrow stuck in it and winds up in a park (which happens a lot) you give us all a black eye. I think I'll stick with my shotgun, there's a reason people hunt with guns now.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Papachessie » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:32 pm

Indaswamp wrote:O.K. people...try this one...
Snow geese have a regular and a conservation season.
regular season there is a possession limit-same as all other waterfowl.
conservation season, there is not a daily bag limit or possession limit.
How do you square the rules as to how it applies at your residence and birds in your freezer??
how does the game warden know which ones were shot when. and is the possession limit enforceable later in the year-even when some of the geese were shot during the conservation season. :huh:

Well Inda, since you've done everything by the book, it should be easy to tell with the wing attatched and the tag stating when and where it was killed. :biggrin:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:33 pm

Papachessie wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:O.K. people...try this one...
Snow geese have a regular and a conservation season.
regular season there is a possession limit-same as all other waterfowl.
conservation season, there is not a daily bag limit or possession limit.
How do you square the rules as to how it applies at your residence and birds in your freezer??
how does the game warden know which ones were shot when. and is the possession limit enforceable later in the year-even when some of the geese were shot during the conservation season. :huh:

Well Inda, since you've done everything by the book, it should be easy to tell with the wing attatched and the tag stating when and where it was killed. :biggrin:

:rolleyes:
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