Bag limit of ducks

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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby vincentpa » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:56 pm

I've had it explained to me by GWs and retired GWs. Inda is correct. Possession ends at your residence. Possession is possession in the field, truck, camp, etc., not your home. I explicitly asked this question and I've heard and read responses to the same questions by PA GWs. It makes absolutely no sense to have daily bag limits that are not reasonably coordinated with rolling possession limits. Inda is also correct that game law enforcement is meant to take place in the field or in transport. The GWs only enter your home if they catch you poaching.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:01 pm

vincentpa wrote:I've had it explained to me by GWs and retired GWs. Inda is correct. Possession ends at your residence. Possession is possession in the field, truck, camp, etc., not your home. I explicitly asked this question and I've heard and read responses to the same questions by PA GWs. It makes absolutely no sense to have daily bag limits that are not reasonably coordinated with rolling possession limits. Inda is also correct that game law enforcement is meant to take place in the field or in transport. The GWs only enter your home if they catch you poaching.

I"ve got friends that are Game wardens. I've been told something similar. If their is no probable cause for game violations in the field or in transit-then possession limit terminates at your residence. and In Louisiana, that could be a camp if the birds are processed there.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby quackerattacker » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:05 pm

I've heard the same, Vincent, and they're wrong if ya wind up in court. Write the USFWS and see what they tell ya. They'll tell ya your GW's are wrong.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Papachessie » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:08 pm

quackerattacker wrote:I've heard the same, Vincent, and they're wrong if ya wind up in court. Write the USFWS and see what they tell ya. They'll tell ya your GW's are wrong.

I've also heard of cases where they've come in to someones house on a tip and confiscated all the meat out of the freezer.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby quackerattacker » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:13 pm

vincentpa wrote:...The GWs only enter your home if they catch you poaching.


Exactly. I missed that line. It's like the seat belt law was here when it was a secondary offense. If they stopped ya for something else they'd add that to it, or just write ya a ticket for that and let the other, like speeding, go.

Papachessie wrote:I've also heard of cases where they've come in to someones house on a tip and confiscated all the meat out of the freezer.


I've heard of 'em doin' duck clubs down here that way and writin' everyone a ticket, when they couldn't catch 'em doin' something else.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby jaysweet3 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:15 pm

I'm not one of the holier than thou crowd, but, I've never shot over, before, or after. Do I see violations, sure I do. I don't get all worked up over it, and I don't condemn those that do. They are birds...we all shoot them and hopefully eat them. The whole Jeff Foiles thing, really doesn't get me all rilled up like a lot of you. I don't want to see someone go to jail over birds. Little excessive in my opinion. Is the guy a jack wagon? Dunno, never met him, have no way of knowing.

Pick and choose what laws you want to follow, I don't really care. Just calm down a little bit.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby quackerattacker » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:25 pm

I'm with ya on the Foiles thing, jaysweet. Seems silly everyone is so riled up about whackin' some resident goose in the head for a band, when a state like New York is gassin' 170,000 of 'em to prevent 'em from strikin' planes. Heck, he may have saved a 747! :biggrin:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby charlie beard » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:43 am

Here's the responce from USFWS

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the possession limit for Migratory game birds. The Service's Pubic Affairs office asked us to respond to your question.

Ducks that have been processed processed for consumption that are in your freezer count against your possession limit. Possession ends when the bird ceases to exist as such--ie, the duck is consumed and remaining parts are discarded. Simpley processing the birds for consumption does not constitute an end to possession.

Please fell free to contact us in the future at R9LEwww.@fws.gov if you have additional questions about Service regulations or laws we enforce.

Sandy Cleva
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement



This to me pretty much explains it.
If a State Warden tells you your possession limit ends once the birds are in the freezer he is wrong. :no:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby teddysberna » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:52 am

Stupid Law... End of story... Not everyone wants to eat ducks the same night they kill them
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:56 am

charlie beard wrote:Here's the responce from USFWS

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the possession limit for Migratory game birds. The Service's Pubic Affairs office asked us to respond to your question.

Ducks that have been processed processed for consumption that are in your freezer count against your possession limit. Possession ends when the bird ceases to exist as such--ie, the duck is consumed and remaining parts are discarded. Simpley processing the birds for consumption does not constitute an end to possession.

Please fell free to contact us in the future at R9LEwww.@fws.gov if you have additional questions about Service regulations or laws we enforce.

Sandy Cleva
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement



This to me pretty much explains it.
If a State Warden tells you your possession limit ends once the birds are in the freezer he is wrong. :no:

I agree with teddy...stupid law the way it is written. looks like I'll be "gifting" a bunch of birds to cousins just in case the FEDS want to do a search of my freezers...and when I eat a possession limit-they will gladly "gift" the ducks back to me...you know so as to be "legal" with this stupid asinine law.
in the field and in transport-I can totally understand. But this is a moronic law.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby WTN10 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:10 am

If you can choose to obey or disobey this law based on whether you like it or not, why not the same for group limits?

Where's don?
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:22 am

WTN10 wrote:If you can choose to obey or disobey this law based on whether you like it or not, why not the same for group limits?

Where's don?

I'm not disobeying the law...there is no language on how to define possession once the birds are processed as far as I can tell. you telling me that the birds have to be frozen with a wing on until such a time when they are consumed? enforcement of this law taken to it's extreme is moronic IMO.

fine...call me a poacher if it makes you happy. I'm not going to stop shooting ducks to put in the freezer to store and eat throughout the year. There are literally thousands of Louisiana residents with more than one possession limit of ducks in their freezer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby charlie beard » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:26 am

Inda
I am not sure but think this law was made when they outlawed market hunting.
To me it made since then.
I have an old hunting laws and regulation booklet that dates 1921-1923.
They have one section on waterfowl. I do remember reading in it one Game Warden covered the whole State and shooting Hawks and Owls was legal. :huh:
Now all I have to do is find it. This is an Iowa booklet.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:57 am

charlie beard wrote:Inda
I am not sure but think this law was made when they outlawed market hunting.
To me it made since then.
I have an old hunting laws and regulation booklet that dates 1921-1923.
They have one section on waterfowl. I do remember reading in it one Game Warden covered the whole State and shooting Hawks and Owls was legal. :huh:
Now all I have to do is find it. This is an Iowa booklet.

Charlie..if possession limits are applied to your home residence as they are in transport and in the field-then everyone that breasts birds out and freezes them or makes sausage with 'em is in violation of the strict letter of the law. The law was never intended to be carried to this point of absurdity.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby WTN10 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:11 am

Indaswamp wrote:
WTN10 wrote:If you can choose to obey or disobey this law based on whether you like it or not, why not the same for group limits?

Where's don?

I'm not disobeying the law...there is no language on how to define possession once the birds are processed as far as I can tell


Yes there is. Congress is not required to define every word in a statute and the courts will not define it unless asked. Administrative agencies such as the USFWS are afforded a great, great, great deal of deference in interpreting regulations that they are required to enforce-to the point that courts will rarely, if ever, disagree with them.

The governing authority in this case has rendered an opinion as to what "possession" is, and that counts as birds in your freezer. Nothing short of Congress actually amending the statute will change that.

That being the case, report for your poacher stamp. :biggrin:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby WTN10 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:12 am

Indaswamp wrote:fine...call me a poacher if it makes you happy. I'm not going to stop shooting ducks to put in the freezer to store and eat throughout the year. There are literally thousands of Louisiana residents with more than one possession limit of ducks in their freezer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


It doesn't. I'm both screwing with you and examining the issue of obeying stupid laws that don't make sense.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:24 am

WTN10 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:fine...call me a poacher if it makes you happy. I'm not going to stop shooting ducks to put in the freezer to store and eat throughout the year. There are literally thousands of Louisiana residents with more than one possession limit of ducks in their freezer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


It doesn't. I'm both screwing with you and examining the issue of obeying stupid laws that don't make sense.

and that is the reason you will continue to get the responses you have gotten in the dog forum from very knowledgeable trainers.

how many people jaywalk every year? I rest my case.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby WTN10 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:36 am

Indaswamp wrote:
WTN10 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:fine...call me a poacher if it makes you happy. I'm not going to stop shooting ducks to put in the freezer to store and eat throughout the year. There are literally thousands of Louisiana residents with more than one possession limit of ducks in their freezer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


It doesn't. I'm both screwing with you and examining the issue of obeying stupid laws that don't make sense.

and that is the reason you will continue to get the responses you have gotten in the dog forum from very knowledgeable trainers.

how many people jaywalk every year? I rest my case.


It appears I have tred on holy ground whilest shoed. Ribbing someone on the dog forum is an unforgivable sin that transcends forum boundaries and will follow you the rest of your life. I came to work in sackcloth and ashes, I've gotten a lot of funny looks and still no forgiveness from Inda. :sad:

Re: Jaywalking. You don't need to be on the defensive with me. I don't think you're a poacher in the least for having a freezer full of birds. I just was curious where you and anyone else stood regarding this issue. The law is a lot more strict than a lot of people realized (including myself) and there seem to be some real hard chargers on here for obeying every letter of the law, no matter what, or else be branded a poacher. I agree that the law is stupid. Being that I have three people in my household, I can have 6 limits in my home. I'm not that good of a hunter yet, so I'm not faced with these complications like the rest of you. :biggrin:

What about taxidermists who have bunches of birds in their freezer waiting to be mounted? Are they in violation of this statute?
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby vincentpa » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:43 am

WTN10 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:fine...call me a poacher if it makes you happy. I'm not going to stop shooting ducks to put in the freezer to store and eat throughout the year. There are literally thousands of Louisiana residents with more than one possession limit of ducks in their freezer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


It doesn't. I'm both screwing with you and examining the issue of obeying stupid laws that don't make sense.


You were obviously trolling. However, you were making the proper case if that letter posted by Charlie Beard is indeed true. I have only seen Federal Waterfowl Conservation Officers one time in the field. Actually they weren't in the field but watching waterfowl at a local boat club. Next time I see them, I will ask them their position as officers on that law.

It is a stupid law but, many hunters consider the group limit to be a stupid law. Many guys on this site take the opposite position on group limits and have very strong opinions about it. I guess it depends on who's breaking the law. I really don't care either way. Jeff Foiles doesn't affect me, my life or my hunting in the least. I don't get worked up about group limits and I won't get worked up about possession limits.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:46 am

Indaswamp wrote:
WTN10 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:fine...call me a poacher if it makes you happy. I'm not going to stop shooting ducks to put in the freezer to store and eat throughout the year. There are literally thousands of Louisiana residents with more than one possession limit of ducks in their freezer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


It doesn't. I'm both screwing with you and examining the issue of obeying stupid laws that don't make sense.

and that is the reason you will continue to get the responses you have gotten in the dog forum from very knowledgeable trainers.

how many people jaywalk every year? I rest my case.


WTN10 wrote:It appears I have tred on holy ground whilest shoed. Ribbing someone on the dog forum is an unforgivable sin that transcends forum boundaries and will follow you the rest of your life. I came to work in sackcloth and ashes, I've gotten a lot of funny looks and still no forgiveness from Inda. :sad:


you just have to understand the mindset of most dog trainers-they have a very low tolerance for B$...

Re: Jaywalking. You don't need to be on the defensive with me. I don't think you're a poacher in the least for having a freezer full of birds. I just was curious where you and anyone else stood regarding this issue. The law is a lot more strict than a lot of people realized (including myself) and there seem to be some real hard chargers on here for obeying every letter of the law, no matter what, or else be branded a poacher. I agree that the law is stupid. Being that I have three people in my household, I can have 6 limits in my home. I'm not that good of a hunter yet, so I'm not faced with these complications like the rest of you. :biggrin:

What about taxidermists who have bunches of birds in their freezer waiting to be mounted? Are they in violation of this statute?

I have placed you in the wrong group then...

taxidermists have very strict paperwork that must be filled out to track the birds. and special permits obtained to work as a taxidermist.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby WTN10 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:50 am

vincentpa wrote:
WTN10 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:fine...call me a poacher if it makes you happy. I'm not going to stop shooting ducks to put in the freezer to store and eat throughout the year. There are literally thousands of Louisiana residents with more than one possession limit of ducks in their freezer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


It doesn't. I'm both screwing with you and examining the issue of obeying stupid laws that don't make sense.


You were obviously trolling. However, you were making the proper case if that letter posted by Charlie Beard is indeed true. I have only seen Federal Waterfowl Conservation Officers one time in the field. Actually they weren't in the field but watching waterfowl at a local boat club. Next time I see them, I will ask them their position as officers on that law.

It is a stupid law but, many hunters consider the group limit to be a stupid law. Many guys on this site take the opposite position on group limits and have very strong opinions about it. I guess it depends on who's breaking the law. I really don't care either way. Jeff Foiles doesn't affect me, my life or my hunting in the least. I don't get worked up about group limits and I won't get worked up about possession limits.


Aren't they really the same thing though? :biggrin:

Your second paragraph is my point: If you disobey this law because you think it is stupid, how can one then tell people who group limit that they are wrong? Afterall, they aren't obeying the law because they think it's stupid.

I don't have an answer. In my mind, I wouldn't group limit but I would have a freezer full of birds. The way I reason through it is that group limiting potentially allows one or two skilled hunters to compensate for the poor shooting skills of the others and kill birds that, if they had obeyed the law, wouldn't have been killed by the others who are terrible shots.

There is no such reasoning behind the possession limit. Those birds would be killed anyway whether they were dead in the freezer or digesting in your stomach. Doesn't make sense.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby assateague » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:00 am

WTN10 wrote:If you can choose to obey or disobey this law based on whether you like it or not, why not the same for group limits?

Where's don?


Amen, brother. Let's not pick and choose, while labelling me and my buddy poachers. :no: If "that's stupid" was a defense, the prisons would be empty. As far as possession ending at your door, why would anyone think that? All your mounts, whether deer, duck, turkey, whatever, are legally required to have a possession tag on them somewhere, even hanging on the wall. What would make a freezer any different? I'm sort of glad I feel the way I do about group limits, since it seriously limits my hypocrisy.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby BigRiver » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:04 am

Inda, not trying to pick a fight with you.

I just find it odd that some on this site may disregard this law, stupid or not, but may view the "group" thing as being a poacher.


Hypocrisy in my eyes


Just sayin'
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:15 am

BigRiver wrote:Inda, not trying to pick a fight with you.

I just find it odd that some on this site may disregard this law, stupid or not, but may view the "group" thing as being a poacher.


Hypocrisy in my eyes


Just sayin'

I know many game wardens that will hammer someone for group limiting. not many that will go after over the possession limit in your freezer as a separate offense.
just like I know cops that won't ticket jaywalkers...
if people want to group limit-best a luck to ya. walk the line if you choose. guess I'll be delivering a bunch of ducks and "gifting" them today so as to be "legal" within the eyes of the stupid law. that's my legal option. good luck finding one with group limits in the field.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby assateague » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:25 am

I "gifted" mine while still in the field! :devil:
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