Food for thought

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Food for thought

Postby KO » Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:33 am

While some may argue that there are ducks, most of us who grew up years ago and had fathers who also grew up hunting. This info is from waterfowl biologists.

Nesting success in 1955 was approx 21%
Nesting success in 1972 was approx 15%
Nesting success in 1992 was approx 10%

Now do you see why some of us older hunters see a real problem....sure some are seeing birds....but its not what it used to be and its getting worse...we continue to subsidize agricutural for overproducing and continue to lose acres of grasslands and small marginal wetlands to the plow...now Canada is doing the same. Meanwhile duck hunters sit quitely in their blinds hoping that next year is somehow going to be better. Well my friends, if you want to see it get better, sitting quietly won't cut it. If your getting birds now, look again at the above numbers and ask yourself how long before the trend impacts me. How low does the nest success have to go before we are shooting or base /breeding population. At what point do I make a comitment and start rasing cane to get things changed. If your okay with the way things are, view nothing wrong, do me a favor, print this. Ten years or even five from now, read it again and see if your mind has changed. If the above trend holds true, today's nesting success could be as low as 5%. Don't tell me there are birds...there is no comparison to what there used to be...I was there and saw it....don't tell me about migration shifts...thats an excuse...it isn't reality....the truth is we're plowing up nests and burying duck hunting in the proccess.
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Postby KO » Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:55 am

An idea: If anyone reads this belongs to the refuge forums or waterfowler.com, feel free to copy/paste the above to the forums there.

Its time to act
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Postby macdaddy » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:01 pm

KO: you get it. You're offering the best explanation for my thesis - there are indeed fewer migators. Any more, my best success on ducks here in Penna is in the October season. That's when we're hitting the resident ducks. After that, it's hit or miss. Now, I'll admit that West Penna is not in a major flyway, but we have gotten migrators down here. You're right -it's time to start raising cain w/ USFWS &, in my case, the Pa Game Commission ( they extended the early season right into the late season in the northwest zone - one of the areas w/ the most wetlands!). We have a migratory bird treaty w/ Canada; d*****t, force the Canucks to live by it! If we didn't down here, could you imagine the uproar? We can no longer be seen as merely an easy source of $15.00 for the Washington bureaucrats @ USFWS.
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Postby Greg Wile » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:30 pm

We have a migratory bird treaty w/ Canada; d*****t, force the Canucks to live by it!


We also have a free trade agreement with "you all" as long as its in your favor!!! Don't mind me I just feel a bit crachity. But to start pointing fingers is not going to do anything but "P" people off. Maybe if Duck hunters in general Could act together and purchase wetlands, such as DU dose then maybe just may be we could become a part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Much the same as building and setting up wood duck boxes. And what is wrong with the industries that we support by purchasing their products for hunting? Why are they not doing their part to see that the sport flourishes?I know! they are only worried about what they can make for immeadiate proffits and to HE-- with sustaining this barbaric sport when we can always sell some new item to these poor pathetic fools when there is nothing for them to hunt and besides we'll be politically correct.


Sorry if any of you feel offended but thats the way I see this issue.


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Postby yellowlab » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:47 pm

wow.... being only 17 i haven't seen these trends and i am not going to lie i didn;t have my eyes open ... i was one who thought yeah there were birds... this really opened thing up ... thanks a lot KO
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Postby ks_waterfowler » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:26 pm

So they are following the quail in the downslide. I can remember just 10 years ago when we would find 3-4 coveys on one place we hunt. Now we are lucky to find one.
whistlin_wings wrote:I grew up in a neighborhood with only 3 pools and a public golf course. Thug life is all I know.
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Postby tstrong » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:13 pm

Then get off your ass and get involved. Join DU (ducks unlimited) or Waterfowlers. The NRA isn't into keeping the wetlands they're doing their part and keeping our rite's to own firearms. DU is actively purchasing lots of land in Canada to prevent exactly what's happening from getting any worse. 35 dollars guys and your a member for a year. I'm 44 yrs old and I've been a member since I started hunting in 1980's. My son is a Greenwing member for DU (youth organization) since he was 1 yr old., and he's 14 now. Don't leave it up to someone else. Please get involved and help. I saw this happening 20 yrs ago, I think it is getting better. I also love to be at parties when someone shoots off their mouth about hunting and killing innocent animals. If it wasn't for us there would be even fewer animals. Let's keep the tradition going.
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Postby SCoutdoorsman » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:27 pm

ks_waterfowler wrote:So they are following the quail in the downslide. I can remember just 10 years ago when we would find 3-4 coveys on one place we hunt. Now we are lucky to find one.
I agree with you there.

Ts I agree with ya 100%
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Postby 98ramtough » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:29 am

Ks-

with the quail, are there a lot of eagles, coyotes, hawks, owls around? We used to hunt an area similar, we took care of all the preditors, now there are chuckars, pheasants, and quail everywhere.......
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Postby KO » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:01 pm

Here's a little something about Canada...Years ago Cananda was concerned about the Mallard population and wanted the US to drop the limits in an effort to bring the population back up......basically we told them to pound sand...and the resulting wisdom is that if the US isn't willing then why should we be....so it goes...another nail in the waterfolwing coffin...my only saving grace in all this is that maybe waterfowlers care enough to REALLY get involved and not let go of this until its fixed.....lets face it the general population could care less if we hunt ducks.....there will always be ducks.....we just won't be hunting them.....
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Postby Greg Wile » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:03 pm

Thanks KO at least you see both sides of the coin. You also see the wisdom in the fact that you have to put back more than you take to sustain an equillibrium.
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Postby tstrong » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:09 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Canada for this, the US doesn't care about us hunters either. We are the one's that can make a difference. When I first found out that Ducks Unlimited was buying up wet lands in Canada I wanted to end my membership, until I did some research. The governments could care less. The damn Bunny Huggers want to make everything a bird watching preserve. I'm not going to let that happen in my life time.
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Postby KO » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:27 pm

Just remember: 70 to 90% of the continents waterfowl is raised in the prarrie pothole region...The bulk of the PPR is in Canada......I wish DU and Delta could afford to buy it all.....it's been estimated that to permantly lock up the PPR in the US will cost 1.4 billion and thats todays dollar.....The more time that goes by the higher the price...and then we still have the bulk to lock up in Canada.......
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Postby 20gauge24 » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:29 pm

well why dont we help make wood duck boxes and donate them i dont have a lot of ideas but im sure the rest of you do
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Postby tstrong » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:49 pm

On the DU web site there are places all over the US where they need volunteers. I'll bet you can find something pretty close to you guys in the Nothern States. I live in Calif, most of the hunting here is on reserves. I have helped make wood duck boxes, refuge clean up days etc. Contact your local NWR or DFG office and ask about volunteering. As far as the Wetlands goes, a membership or contribution would be the best thing you could do. Find out who the major sponsors are for DU. I really don't like the taste of Budwieser but they are a MAJOR contributer to DU. If I'm buying beer you can bet it's a Budweiser brand.
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Postby ks_waterfowler » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:24 pm

98ramtough wrote:Ks-

with the quail, are there a lot of eagles, coyotes, hawks, owls around? We used to hunt an area similar, we took care of all the preditors, now there are chuckars, pheasants, and quail everywhere.......


Tons of hawks, but we can't touch them. We shoot coyotes, possums, skunks, pretty much anything that will raid our quail nests. We have a large covey behind our house on the edge of town (easy to train the dog), but when we hit some of the best cover, then they are gone. Wish we could eliminate a few hawks. You see on average about 1 hawk per 5 power poles and sometimes more.
whistlin_wings wrote:I grew up in a neighborhood with only 3 pools and a public golf course. Thug life is all I know.
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Postby SCoutdoorsman » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:44 pm

ks_waterfowler wrote:
98ramtough wrote: You see on average about 1 hawk per 5 power poles and sometimes more.
:eek:
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Postby ks_waterfowler » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:06 pm

yeah, I know you find it hard to believe, but hawks here are thick. Nothing would please me more than to weed those suckers out. I hunt on a guys land that they pick his cats off out of the yard after them and the bobcats get all the quail. If hawks were ducks we would limit every day.
whistlin_wings wrote:I grew up in a neighborhood with only 3 pools and a public golf course. Thug life is all I know.
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Postby Greg Wile » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:45 am

around here we ues to have coveys of Hungarian Partridge but due to the bad winters and mainly house cats there all but gone. I can live with the owls, hawks,and foxes but from where I sit there are too many ferrel cats and they kill more small game per capita than any hawk or owl. Then there is the eastren coyote, bad news for all game up to and including deer. Those varmitts have been seen taking calves as the old cow is giving brith to them. The only good thing about the coyotes is the fact that they will make a nice lite snack out of a kitty cat.


keep the sport alive take a kid hunting/fishing.
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Postby macdaddy » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:54 pm

Wasn't trying to get too many too angered. But, glad to see that we're discussing it! Right - we have only ourselves to blame - Yanks & Canucks alike - if it all goes down the tubes.
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Postby texan68 » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:13 pm

wow, i have been hearing it can't get any better, and that there are more ducks and geese then there have ever been
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