If you are not duck hunting, but...

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If you are not duck hunting, but...

Postby Snaph » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:39 pm

When I was hunting pheasant a few weeks ago and I came across a (very) small (open) marsh/pond. I figured I would let the dog get wet and get a drink (the dog not me). Then I thought to myself; what if I put up a few ducks? Would I shoot? I am hunting other small game and using lead shot. So I think no, I would be taking waterfowl with illegal shot. Then I thought, if the birds were kicked up and flying it would be no different than shooting at a pheasant, and I have a duck stamp so what is the difference?

If I was walking back to a swamp to go duck hunting and put up a grouse or a pheasant, and killed it with steel and/or non-toxic shot, I see no problem. We can hunt for dove with lead shot, but if we hunt the same fields for geese we have to use steel/non-toxic shot.

I understand that we do not want to fill our waterways with lead shot. I support that all the way. But think, lets say you are rabbit hunting. A low flock of geese comes in. If you did shoot, you are not putting anymore lead in the field than if you had a great day of rabbit hunting. (maybe someone should look into the low number of rabbits this year and see if it correlates with low duck numbers) (for some of us)

My only guess is the the "Gov" had to use a broad brush to control the toxic shot issue. Not a bad thing. I guess because I am new to this waterfowl thing, I just took a step back and scratched my head and asked... "why"? I have no question why we have to use non-toxic on open water, swamps, lakes and waterways. But, why inland fields that you can hunt with lead shot for anything else? What if I had steel shot with me while hunting small game, saw low flying geese, dumped the lead for steel and put down a few birds? I ask this because I have been small game hunting and have had geese fly right over top of me..orange vest/hat and all. Edjamacate me. Thanks. I had some other point but I forgot it.
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Postby quackkiller » Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:40 am

Well I'm gonna say if some low geese come over or you jump up some ducks while you have lead shot in your gun, the smartest thing to do is not shoot. Because if you get checked, the law isn't gonna give a crap of what kind of excuse you have, the fact is, you shot a duck or goose with lead shot which is illegal and unexcusable. I wouldn't do it. If I were you I'd carry some steel shot with me, and if you are approaching a place where you think you might get a shot at some ducks, then put the steel shot in your gun. Just don't shoot any kind of waterfowl with lead cuz if you get caught all I have to say is you are screwed! Good luck. :salude:
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Postby teal_tormentor » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:23 am

It is a violation to have shells loaded with lead shot in personal possession while hunting migratory birds. If you cannot understand this, then I don't know what else to say...It is clearly engraved. You're speeding doing 95 in a 60 zone, a big-mouthed state trooper pulls you over. But officer...I must get to the nearest restroom...I'm gonna crap my pants...Tell it to the judge, here is your 200.00 ticket, have a nice day.
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Postby donell67 » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:36 am

yeah what teal said. even if you took out your lead and put in steel to shoot the ducks. you are still hunting illegally because you have lead shot in your possession. best thing to do would be shoot steel for everything.
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Postby quackkiller » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:49 am

I forgot about having lead in possession. teal & donell are right. If you are going to even think about shooting a duck or goose. You better not have one lead shell on you, or you're gonna get busted, big time. You could shoot pheasants and rabbits with steel. I do it all the time, works just as good.
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Postby had » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:36 pm

when i go quail hunting by the river i just bring steel # 6's. sometimes i get a close shot at ducks. but you have to be carefull and know the limits of that shell. it can cause a cripple pretty easy.

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Postby Snaph » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:37 pm

Ok, I guess my point was missed. I would not shoot at waterfowl with lead. Lets get that out of the way right off the bat. I am a stickler for hunting laws. When a buddy asked what time shooting hours was over, my other buddy chirpped in "5 minutes after Gar unloads his gun". I was mearly taking you down my train of thought. My POINT was, what is the difference if you hunt small game using lead, and hunt waterfowl with non-toxic on the same land. I am speaking from an ecology stand point. I know you can't lay into a flock of geese while you are, lets say, dove hunting. What I was trying to say is, you are laying down just as much if not more lead in that field hunting dove than you would be hunting geese. If you flush a few ducks and they fly through the same "airspace" a pheasent would... what is the difference?

I'm not questioning the law or the reason for the law. I am looking at the logic alone. My other point I "forgot" and I guess that would of made my post more understandable is; I foresee a day (soon) when this would not even be a question, because lead shot will be no more. I know if I thought of this somebody who makes laws has thought of this. All of the evil lead on Earth will be loaded onto one big, very powerful rocket and launched into the sun. Then all the lead would melt and put the sun out killing all the waterfowl on this planet. Irony is served. OK I will stop being silly now. I hope I cleared what I said up.
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Postby h2ofwlr » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:08 pm

Why not just use steel shot while hunting pheasants? That way if a duck or goose comes along---Kapowwww! :mrgreen:
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Postby had » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:41 am

What I was trying to say is, you are laying down just as much if not more lead in that field hunting dove than you would be hunting geese.

i understand you. here where i live it is a very popular place for dove hunting. thousands of people come from around az and california to hunt. and they put out ALOT of lead in the 15 day season. but thats the way it is.

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Postby h2ofwlr » Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:53 am

As for hunting with lead shot and the effects.
This is my take on it. There are 43 reasons why lead is not allowed for waterfowling. First is the pellets in water are small, certain species will eat them mistaking it for grit and it goes into their gizzard and they evenually die of lead poisioning. Second is if the bird is hit and initially survives, the lead pellet will poison the bird. Third is if it is wounded and dies a a little bit later, yes Raptures and other scavengers will eat it and the lead. Fourth is blanket enforcement. This is why on land you can not use lead even though you are say 1/2 mile from water. It makes enforcement much easier when lead pellets are in the bird as the hunters can not say, "I shot these ducks over land in a field" when in reality it may have been over water. So no lead on land.


BTW there are efforts to ban lead fishing weights too. And I suspect in the next decade or so most trap and skeet ranges, as well as other upland hunting will go to steel. I know here in MN if on federal or state land-you must use steel for upland bird hunting.
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Postby KO » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:24 am

My 2 cents.....I no longer use lead for anything...I've seen a pheasant with lead poisoning....It's just easiest to convert completely...
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Postby Greg Wile » Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:36 am

Made the switch to all steel when I took up waterfowling and haven't looked back. I think lead will be band altogether before long with all the environmental issues associated with it. Back to your ques it is illegal to hunt waterfowl with anything but nontoxic shot weather hunting over water or land anywhere in Canada and the United States along with most of the civilized countries of the world.


Keep the sport alive take a kid hunting/ fishing.
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