ATTN Veterans: Do you know about this?

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Re: ATTN Veterans: Do you know about this?

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:01 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:No response, scaup? This issue came up previously and you went all Tasmanian Devil on taking gun rights away from veterans with PTSD.
I'll give a note of caution. What other rights should you lose without being convicted in a court of law? While if what you said is what is happening, I agree, but you also need to acknowledge that we are in dangerous territory when the government is punishing you without having convicted you.

And once the person is competent, their rights should instantly be restored. Is that happening?

We just need to remember this is out there on the thin ice and needs to be watched very carefully. It is a whole lot of power being consolidated into the hands of a few. While necessary, it needs to be watched carefully, particularly in an area where people have a clear agenda.



Do you mean like the right to keep and bear arms when accused of domestic violence without conviction? That would be one that has already happened.

Not to my knowledge, scaup. I have a friend that has fought the ex post facto Lautenberg's Law for years, but he wasn't prohibited from possessing a gun until his misdemeanor conviction. Now it is a lifetime ban. The law is up for Supreme Court consideration this month, however, based on its ex post facto unconstitutionality. By the way....you can get convicted for murder...have it reduced to a misdemeanor after a certain length of trouble-free time, and then have your gun rights restored. But a misdemeanor charge of domestic violence is a Lifetime ban. :huh:
In other words.....don't blithely threaten her, shoot her. :no:
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Re: ATTN Veterans: Do you know about this?

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:02 pm

SCOTUS should settle it once and for all here shortly. I know a federal court in Texas found the law unconstitutional.

It is pretty sad when you get less time and trouble for killing someone than for threatening them.
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Re: ATTN Veterans: Do you know about this?

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:36 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:SCOTUS should settle it once and for all here shortly. I know a federal court in Texas found the law unconstitutional.

It is pretty sad when you get less time and trouble for killing someone than for threatening them.


I certainly hope so. It's gone before SCOTUS at least twice before, however, and been upheld. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
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Re: ATTN Veterans: Do you know about this?

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:30 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:No response, scaup? This issue came up previously and you went all Tasmanian Devil on taking gun rights away from veterans with PTSD.
I'll give a note of caution. What other rights should you lose without being convicted in a court of law? While if what you said is what is happening, I agree, but you also need to acknowledge that we are in dangerous territory when the government is punishing you without having convicted you.

And once the person is competent, their rights should instantly be restored. Is that happening?

We just need to remember this is out there on the thin ice and needs to be watched very carefully. It is a whole lot of power being consolidated into the hands of a few. While necessary, it needs to be watched carefully, particularly in an area where people have a clear agenda.



Do you mean like the right to keep and bear arms when accused of domestic violence without conviction? That would be one that has already happened.

Not to my knowledge, scaup. I have a friend that has fought the ex post facto Lautenberg's Law for years, but he wasn't prohibited from possessing a gun until his misdemeanor conviction. Now it is a lifetime ban. The law is up for Supreme Court consideration this month, however, based on its ex post facto unconstitutionality. By the way....you can get convicted for murder...have it reduced to a misdemeanor after a certain length of trouble-free time, and then have your gun rights restored. But a misdemeanor charge of domestic violence is a Lifetime ban. :huh:
In other words.....don't blithely threaten her, shoot her. :no:

Near where I grew up a few years ago, a guy shot his girlfriend that was cheating on him or something like that. He argued for Not Guilty by reason of insanity, that is what the jury found, so he was sent to a mental health facility, they said this guy is not nuts. He then sued to get his guns back. Don't know if he ever did, but it sounded like there was nothing that was going to stop him. He was never convicted of a crime and innocent and sane in the eyes of the law.

Glimmerjim wrote:It's gone before SCOTUS at least twice before, however, and been upheld. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
It shouldn't just be SCOTUS that we hope defends the Constitution. They are all sworn to do so. Every law maker that doesn't repeal that law should be treated as rejecting the Constitution and that should be a deal breaker as far as ever voting for them.
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Re: ATTN Veterans: Do you know about this?

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:04 am

That guy knew how to work the system. The problem is the system that allows a murderer to get off that way instead of just having him returned to court for a guilty finding and a hanging.
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Re: ATTN Veterans: Do you know about this?

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:37 am

ScaupHunter wrote:That guy knew how to work the system. The problem is the system that allows a murderer to get off that way instead of just having him returned to court for a guilty finding and a hanging.

His argument was not that he was not competent to stand trial. His argument was that he was not responsible for his actions because he was insane at the time of the actions and deserved medical treatment and not punishment. He won the argument in court because the jury was stupid and didn't understand the consequences of their actions.

That should not be an option. I believe all murderers are insane and that is not an excuse for not executing them.

And yeah, yeah for the lawyers, I know the difference they are arguing, but should not be an option for child molestation, rape, and murder. If a dog does that, we put the dog down and don't take the chance we can control them in the future. If a human does it, we shouldn't take the chance and put them down too even if they are no more mentally competent than the dog.
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