Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby Rat Creek » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:45 pm

Charlie:

I agree with you. At the Lake of the Ozarks today, I noticed that outside of the committed couples, the ratio was at least 8:1, and this seems about the average that I see every year. I also target only drakes.

I hear biologist turn themselves inside out to explain that preserving the egg layers makes no difference, but knowing that drakes do indeed outnumber hens, and knowing hens have much higher losses to predators, why would a person not target only drakes.

I do not buy the whole "it does not matter" argument because it fails the common sense of preserving the egg layers while targeting the gender that shows exponential abundance each spring.
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby charlie beard » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:23 pm

Rat Creek wrote:Charlie:

I agree with you. At the Lake of the Ozarks today, I noticed that outside of the committed couples, the ratio was at least 8:1, and this seems about the average that I see every year. I also target only drakes.

I hear biologist turn themselves inside out to explain that preserving the egg layers makes no difference, but knowing that drakes do indeed outnumber hens, and knowing hens have much higher losses to predators, why would a person not target only drakes.

I do not buy the whole "it does not matter" argument because it fails the common sense of preserving the egg layers while targeting the gender that shows exponential abundance each spring.


Rat creek--thanks
Everyone has shot hens including myself.
Back in the middle 50s my only thought were numbers.
In years since I have tried to shoot drakes only.
Even at this in bad light and the ducks get below the timber line you will still kill a hen sometimes.
I can understand if a person only hunts weekends or has a young son or daughter hunting for the first or second time.
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in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand"
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby D Comeaux » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:33 pm

To each his own, but why aren't the hens of other species not in the spot light as mallard hens? Just a year ago we were seeing large flocks of nothing but mallard hens which was also reported to our north? There were post mentioning this here on DHC.

"Lreynolds wrote: They are in place only because of hunter preferences"
"With no sarcasm whatsoever, shoot whatever you makes you feel good about yourself. But there is no population-level biological justification for your "scruples" or believing that you've been "taught better".
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby DuckManClyde » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:01 pm

Boatman wrote:
possumfoot wrote:
Lreynolds wrote:An old favorite ........

One drake will not take care of a dozen hens; mallards are not polygynous. If that was the case, they would not form pair bonds, and we all know they do. This time of year, un-paired females get a lot of attention and photographers get those great photos of one female being chased aerially by many males. The male of a pair tries to keep his female away from unpaired males, and expends a lot of energy doing it.

Sex ratios are skewed because of lower female survival, especially during the breeding season.

Mallards are the only species for which there are sex restrictions, and they are in place only because of hunter preferences. They serve no established biological purpose as evidenced by population trends in mallards vs other species without sex restrictions. That should be expected when you consider the harvest rate for mallard hens is only about 8%, which means 92% are unaffected by harvest. Furthermore, hunter-killed ducks have been shown, on average, to be smaller, in poorer condition, have higher rates of lead ingestion, and higher rates of parasitism than birds of the same species caught using more random methods in the same areas. So hunters tend to kill birds with lower probabilities of surviving to reproduce the following spring, which may be one mechanism of compensatory mortality. However, 100% are effected by habitat conditions on the breeding grounds and the lower survival probability, which is why the effects on the breeding grounds overwhelm any effects we might see from hen restrictions during hunting season.

With no sarcasm whatsoever, shoot whatever you makes you feel good about yourself. But there is no population-level biological justification for your "scruples" or believing that you've been "taught better".

:clapping:


Larry, don't you think that the 8% harvest rate would go up if the 74% of hunters did not avoid shooting hens? A 1991 survey said 74% of hunters avoid shooting hens.


Half of what we shoot are hens, but never mallards. Every duck we saw this past fall were freaking wood ducks or teal.
If offended, and or irritated with the above post, please refer to my caring face :hi:
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby possumfoot » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:08 pm

Rat Creek wrote:Charlie:

I agree with you. At the Lake of the Ozarks today, I noticed that outside of the committed couples, the ratio was at least 8:1, and this seems about the average that I see every year. I also target only drakes.

I hear biologist turn themselves inside out to explain that preserving the egg layers makes no difference, but knowing that drakes do indeed outnumber hens, and knowing hens have much higher losses to predators, why would a person not target only drakes.

I do not buy the whole "it does not matter" argument because it fails the common sense of preserving the egg layers while targeting the gender that shows exponential abundance each spring.



what people like you fail to realize is that hunting, within limits, has virtually 0 impact on next seasons duck numbers.. habitat has a huge impact on duck numbers arguably 100% impact because nest predation can not be eliminated, but is lessened greatly in great habitat years.. there is only so much quality nesting haditat and there are more than enough hens to occupy it.. hope that helps.
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby Duck_Stank » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:08 am

Voluntary restraint is non existent in my state (at least around pymatuning) in Pennsylvania. What's the idea of it in regards to local populations of resident birds? Mind you, I only shoot male geese....:roll:
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby charlie beard » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:54 pm

Lreynolds wrote:An old favorite ........

One drake will not take care of a dozen hens; mallards are not polygynous. If that was the case, they would not form pair bonds, and we all know they do. This time of year, un-paired females get a lot of attention and photographers get those great photos of one female being chased aerially by many males. The male of a pair tries to keep his female away from unpaired males, and expends a lot of energy doing it.

Sex ratios are skewed because of lower female survival, especially during the breeding season.

Mallards are the only species for which there are sex restrictions, and they are in place only because of hunter preferences. They serve no established biological purpose as evidenced by population trends in mallards vs other species without sex restrictions. That should be expected when you consider the harvest rate for mallard hens is only about 8%, which means 92% are unaffected by harvest. Furthermore, hunter-killed ducks have been shown, on average, to be smaller, in poorer condition, have higher rates of lead ingestion, and higher rates of parasitism than birds of the same species caught using more random methods in the same areas. So hunters tend to kill birds with lower probabilities of surviving to reproduce the following spring, which may be one mechanism of compensatory mortality. However, 100% are effected by habitat conditions on the breeding grounds and the lower survival probability, which is why the effects on the breeding grounds overwhelm any effects we might see from hen restrictions during hunting season.

With no sarcasm whatsoever, shoot whatever you makes you feel good about yourself. But there is no population-level biological justification for your "scruples" or believing that you've been "taught better".


Please explain.
Read breeding.

W http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mallard

Here's a number for some.
856-935-1230 Wild ducks in captivity.
These people raise 200,000 mallards per year.
Their ratio one drake to 5-8 hens.

I raised mallards 50 years ago.
"If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara desert,
in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand"
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby possumfoot » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:02 pm

charlie beard wrote:
Lreynolds wrote:An old favorite ........

One drake will not take care of a dozen hens; mallards are not polygynous. If that was the case, they would not form pair bonds, and we all know they do. This time of year, un-paired females get a lot of attention and photographers get those great photos of one female being chased aerially by many males. The male of a pair tries to keep his female away from unpaired males, and expends a lot of energy doing it.

Sex ratios are skewed because of lower female survival, especially during the breeding season.

Mallards are the only species for which there are sex restrictions, and they are in place only because of hunter preferences. They serve no established biological purpose as evidenced by population trends in mallards vs other species without sex restrictions. That should be expected when you consider the harvest rate for mallard hens is only about 8%, which means 92% are unaffected by harvest. Furthermore, hunter-killed ducks have been shown, on average, to be smaller, in poorer condition, have higher rates of lead ingestion, and higher rates of parasitism than birds of the same species caught using more random methods in the same areas. So hunters tend to kill birds with lower probabilities of surviving to reproduce the following spring, which may be one mechanism of compensatory mortality. However, 100% are effected by habitat conditions on the breeding grounds and the lower survival probability, which is why the effects on the breeding grounds overwhelm any effects we might see from hen restrictions during hunting season.

With no sarcasm whatsoever, shoot whatever you makes you feel good about yourself. But there is no population-level biological justification for your "scruples" or believing that you've been "taught better".


Please explain.
Read breeding.

W http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mallard

Here's a number for some.
856-935-1230 Wild ducks in captivity.
These people raise 200,000 mallards per year.
Their ratio one drake to 5-8 hens.

I raised mallards 50 years ago.



see my above post.. only so many ducks will be fledged.. more than enough hens to lay the eggs..

it could be argued that higher hen populations actually reduces the number of ducks because higher concentrations of nests, draws higher concentrations of predators.
WTN10 wrote:He was funny like a Pomeranian getting kicked over a fence.


pgquackstacker wrote:I actually started bringing a gun with me on dates, so I bring the girl's father out to my car and tell him if he tries to cock-block me I'll kill him.
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby charlie beard » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:08 pm

possumfoot wrote:
charlie beard wrote:
Lreynolds wrote:An old favorite ........

One drake will not take care of a dozen hens; mallards are not polygynous. If that was the case, they would not form pair bonds, and we all know they do. This time of year, un-paired females get a lot of attention and photographers get those great photos of one female being chased aerially by many males. The male of a pair tries to keep his female away from unpaired males, and expends a lot of energy doing it.

Sex ratios are skewed because of lower female survival, especially during the breeding season.

Mallards are the only species for which there are sex restrictions, and they are in place only because of hunter preferences. They serve no established biological purpose as evidenced by population trends in mallards vs other species without sex restrictions. That should be expected when you consider the harvest rate for mallard hens is only about 8%, which means 92% are unaffected by harvest. Furthermore, hunter-killed ducks have been shown, on average, to be smaller, in poorer condition, have higher rates of lead ingestion, and higher rates of parasitism than birds of the same species caught using more random methods in the same areas. So hunters tend to kill birds with lower probabilities of surviving to reproduce the following spring, which may be one mechanism of compensatory mortality. However, 100% are effected by habitat conditions on the breeding grounds and the lower survival probability, which is why the effects on the breeding grounds overwhelm any effects we might see from hen restrictions during hunting season.

With no sarcasm whatsoever, shoot whatever you makes you feel good about yourself. But there is no population-level biological justification for your "scruples" or believing that you've been "taught better".


Please explain.
Read breeding.

W http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mallard

Here's a number for some.
856-935-1230 Wild ducks in captivity.
These people raise 200,000 mallards per year.
Their ratio one drake to 5-8 hens.

I raised mallards 50 years ago.



see my above post.. only so many ducks will be fledged.. more than enough hens to lay the eggs..

it could be argued that higher hen populations actually reduces the number of ducks because higher concentrations of nests, draws higher concentrations of predators.


Agree 100% my point of this last post drakes will breed more than one hen.
Last edited by charlie beard on Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby Lreynolds » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:20 pm

charlie beard wrote:
Lreynolds wrote:An old favorite ........

One drake will not take care of a dozen hens; mallards are not polygynous. If that was the case, they would not form pair bonds, and we all know they do. This time of year, un-paired females get a lot of attention and photographers get those great photos of one female being chased aerially by many males. The male of a pair tries to keep his female away from unpaired males, and expends a lot of energy doing it.

Sex ratios are skewed because of lower female survival, especially during the breeding season.

Mallards are the only species for which there are sex restrictions, and they are in place only because of hunter preferences. They serve no established biological purpose as evidenced by population trends in mallards vs other species without sex restrictions. That should be expected when you consider the harvest rate for mallard hens is only about 8%, which means 92% are unaffected by harvest. Furthermore, hunter-killed ducks have been shown, on average, to be smaller, in poorer condition, have higher rates of lead ingestion, and higher rates of parasitism than birds of the same species caught using more random methods in the same areas. So hunters tend to kill birds with lower probabilities of surviving to reproduce the following spring, which may be one mechanism of compensatory mortality. However, 100% are effected by habitat conditions on the breeding grounds and the lower survival probability, which is why the effects on the breeding grounds overwhelm any effects we might see from hen restrictions during hunting season.

With no sarcasm whatsoever, shoot whatever you makes you feel good about yourself. But there is no population-level biological justification for your "scruples" or believing that you've been "taught better".


Please explain.
Read breeding.

W http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mallard

Here's a number for some.
856-935-1230 Wild ducks in captivity.
These people raise 200,000 mallards per year.
Their ratio one drake to 5-8 hens.

I raised mallards 50 years ago.


Assuming you were asking me ....... what would you like explained?

The Wikipedia information shows clearly that females do NOT, repeat, do NOT breed willingly with males they are not paired with, thus the term "rape" or "forced copulation". After a female loses her clutch of eggs, she does not immediately copulate with any random male; there is a courtship period to establish a pair bond. Mallards are NOT polygynous, like many upland game birds where males defend territories or perform displays and copulate with >1 willing female. Mallards are clearly monogamous. Because they may pair with >1 male per year, and do not pair with the same male each year, their mating system is most often called "serial monogamy".

I doubt anyone is surprised that things may be different in captive operations. Nothing I said about survival; hunter-kill biases in body-condition, lead-ingestion, or parasite loads; or the effect of habitat conditions applies to captive-breeding situations either.

The fact remains, 1 drake mallard does NOT service "a dozen hens easy" in the wild.
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Re: Mallard Drake to Hen Ratio...

Postby charlie beard » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:56 pm

Lreynolds wrote:
charlie beard wrote:
Lreynolds wrote:An old favorite ........

One drake will not take care of a dozen hens; mallards are not polygynous. If that was the case, they would not form pair bonds, and we all know they do. This time of year, un-paired females get a lot of attention and photographers get those great photos of one female being chased aerially by many males. The male of a pair tries to keep his female away from unpaired males, and expends a lot of energy doing it.

Sex ratios are skewed because of lower female survival, especially during the breeding season.

Mallards are the only species for which there are sex restrictions, and they are in place only because of hunter preferences. They serve no established biological purpose as evidenced by population trends in mallards vs other species without sex restrictions. That should be expected when you consider the harvest rate for mallard hens is only about 8%, which means 92% are unaffected by harvest. Furthermore, hunter-killed ducks have been shown, on average, to be smaller, in poorer condition, have higher rates of lead ingestion, and higher rates of parasitism than birds of the same species caught using more random methods in the same areas. So hunters tend to kill birds with lower probabilities of surviving to reproduce the following spring, which may be one mechanism of compensatory mortality. However, 100% are effected by habitat conditions on the breeding grounds and the lower survival probability, which is why the effects on the breeding grounds overwhelm any effects we might see from hen restrictions during hunting season.

With no sarcasm whatsoever, shoot whatever you makes you feel good about yourself. But there is no population-level biological justification for your "scruples" or believing that you've been "taught better".


Please explain.
Read breeding.

W http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mallard

Here's a number for some.
856-935-1230 Wild ducks in captivity.
These people raise 200,000 mallards per year.
Their ratio one drake to 5-8 hens.

I raised mallards 50 years ago.


Assuming you were asking me ....... what would you like explained?

The Wikipedia information shows clearly that females do NOT, repeat, do NOT breed willingly with males they are not paired with, thus the term "rape" or "forced copulation". After a female loses her clutch of eggs, she does not immediately copulate with any random male; there is a courtship period to establish a pair bond. Mallards are NOT polygynous, like many upland game birds where males defend territories or perform displays and copulate with >1 willing female. Mallards are clearly monogamous. Because they may pair with >1 male per year, and do not pair with the same male each year, their mating system is most often called "serial monogamy".

I doubt anyone is surprised that things may be different in captive operations. Nothing I said about survival; hunter-kill biases in body-condition, lead-ingestion, or parasite loads; or the effect of habitat conditions applies to captive-breeding situations either.

The fact remains, 1 drake mallard does NOT service "a dozen hens easy" in the wild.


Thank you for setting me straight.
Guess I should of said when I raised mallards in captivity.
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in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand"
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