Slack Tide wrote:In many cases, if teachers know that you are judged by the test, you are going to pound pound pound that material and nothing else so the kids do well and it reflects well on you. But if you know the state government is in bed with the publishing companies who are driving this BS curriculum AND authoring the tests.....AND we are paying for it....you realize that this thing is a freakin' socialist hoax and you opt out......
SpinnerMan wrote:So why doesn't the teaching profession put forth their view of the appropriate tests?
SpinnerMan wrote:The process of getting together and debating these things is critical to ensuring that not only is the minimum quality maintained, but that we see continued improvement over time. Granted not everything is subject to standardized test, but much of the most important things are.
I did not say there should be a standard curriculum. Maybe I should have made that clear. Professional societies do not tell you what you should value or buy (i.e. the curriculum), but tell what the professional standards that should be adhered to such that if someone buys that particular thing that it satisfies the necessary quality standards. Basically ensuring that people are getting what they think they are getting.Slack Tide wrote:No one wants a standard curriculum.
Same here. Which gets to my point that those that the kids that have parents that are willing to pay a high premium to get their kids into a quality school are not the kids that we need to worry about. It is the kids who have parents that would sacrifice their kids education if it would save them a buck.Slack Tide wrote:Here on Long Island you have tremendous competition for your school district to reflect the quality of your town, which drives property values.
Not at all. You would have a catalog of tests that address the specific topics being covered. Each teacher already creates their own test for the topic they are teaching. Wouldn't it be great if every algebra teacher was giving equivalent tests, such that regardless of what school you are at, a particular score means the same thing? If a standard existed for creating such tests, then if you are teaching algebra or evaluating the performance of a particular algebra class, you use the standard to create the test such that it has the right breadth and depth of questions and it would probably be easy in this case to create a thousand questions for each area such that you wouldn't have to do anything but randomly select a few questions from each area and administer the test. Then if the kid scores below some value set in the standard he needs to repeat the course, next level he needs remedial help before moving on, satisfies the minimum to advance, and above some score has mastered the topic.Slack Tide wrote:If you (we) were to be able to come up with a test that really evaluated what kids knew....it would have to be extremely basic to allow each district to still do what they want, yet cover a basic concept
Just to repeat, I was NOT talking about curriculum. I am talking about what essentially is a quality assurance program that whatever is included in the curriculum that there is a way to ensure that teacher, student, and parents understand what the the individual kid actually learned. Also, the aggregate information is also needed so the taxpayers can understand that they are getting what they are paying for. None of this is specifying the curriculum, but specifying that each piece of the curriculum is being taught effectively.Slack Tide wrote:now you get into a discussion on what IS important...neighboring districts can have a very different opinion on that too...you would never ever get neighboring districts to collaborate in creating a universal curriculum
Yet, if I buy a house my neighbor built, I know what the standards are for the construction of that house. I have legal recourse if he did not satisfy those standards. There are objective standards by which the installation of each piece was completed. Now, I may choose a house that is not functional and ugly, but the quality of the construction will meet the local standards, which may or may not be based on national or international standards developed by the relevant professional societies as the local government sees fit. The existence of these standards does not require every local politician to understand the best practices for installing electrical wiring, etc. and they can more easily follow the debate of what the standards they should adopt for their local community. If they are not prone to hurricanes, then they can understand that pushing for hurricane standards is just a way to enrich builders by forcing more expensive construction.Slack Tide wrote:just like you couldn't sit down with your neighbor and come up with a universal curriculum for parenting
I hope you understand that I am not talking about specifying curriculum at all. I am not proposing community standards. I am proposing that whatever the community or individual decides, they have a way to have confidence that they are in fact getting what they think they are getting.Slack Tide wrote:you probably have an extremely different list of "must haves" for your child...vs theirs.....
I get caught saying that when I over simplify and that's the problem. Within a 20 mile circle of me, there are exceptionally good and exceptionally bad situations. Some near the best and some near the worst in the nation. How do we fix the worst without interfering with the best?Slack Tide wrote:Unfortunately, the State is under the impression that education in general in America is not doing a good job....
bayside wrote:if I have a student who is "Challenged" (define as you wish: ADD, person of color, poor, crappy family etc), why should I be held accountable for things out of my control?
I was a major slacker all the way through high school.t_baker wrote:You guys shoulda been slackers in school.
t_baker wrote:You guys shoulda been slackers in school. Your wearing me out with just the text count in this thread. I haven't even attempted to read it.
bighop wrote:t_baker wrote:You guys shoulda been slackers in school. Your wearing me out with just the text count in this thread. I haven't even attempted to read it.
Well sit down Indian style and we'll get someone to read it to you.
Professor_Leakey wrote:There is no test that can fairly gauge the learning of all children as a whole. There will always be outliers.
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