Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby Rick Hall » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:53 am

cootlover wrote:Hell just get a throw away 110 from walmart $3.99 :yes:


During my (pre-digital) Capt. Rick phase, there was always always a top of the line Minolta SLR body with a very sharp Tamron 28-85 in dry storage under the center console seat, but most of the best photos taken in that boat were taken with disposables guys weren't afraid to have handy where they might get wet. My high dollar rig usually stayed where it was safe - and did no good, whatsoever. So there's something to your advice.

By the same token, while photographing for pay I lost two nearly identical rigs plus a 100-300mm that was in a "dry" box with one to the marsh...
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby hamernhonkers » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:01 am

Rick Hall wrote:
hamernhonkers wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:At 4000iso, of course not. But, again, you paid a steep price and convenience premium to do so.


I did but then I think just how much better of glass I could have now if I would of just went with the best instead of buying my way up to what I have now. But of course that's just me.


With any luck the OP will heed your advice and ignore mine, and I'll be off the hook when early efforts don't pan out, and he learns really good wildlife photography is a hassle and yet another case where it's more about the Indian than arrow.


Rick I agree 100% with the Indian and arrow analogy that’s why i posted this in my very first response.

[quote]Just how much are you talking when you say affordable? The camera body is just a starting point. With BIF shooting and birds in general its all in big glass (lots of $$$) for reach, then you have to learn all the techniques for capturing the shots. You will not only be investing a lot of money into it but a lot of time learning to.[quote]

If I were the OP I would start out with the rebel line or Nikon equivalent and a 55-250mm or 300mm lens and learn from there. They are a great starter body and with the 1.6x (1.5x for Nikon I think) crop factor will help get the extra reach to still get some decent shots and then if it’s not in the cards for him they are fairly easy to get rid of and not lose to many $ in the process :beer:
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby aunt betty » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:14 am

Read this thread and all I got from it is where killer said "rule of thirds". The best pics I take are when I consciously compose the shot and use that rule. Good thing to know.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby aunt betty » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:15 am

Not always possible.


Killer. You have a photo I want. Lost my copy in mass phone deletion. That one of me n Milo. Could you post it or email it plz?[attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1396973671246.jpg[/attachment]
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby KillerKowalski » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:53 pm

For sure. I'll have to dig.

You still game for Horicon?
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:42 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
hamernhonkers wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:At 4000iso, of course not. But, again, you paid a steep price and convenience premium to do so.


I did but then I think just how much better of glass I could have now if I would of just went with the best instead of buying my way up to what I have now. But of course that's just me.


With any luck the OP will heed your advice and ignore mine, and I'll be off the hook when early efforts don't pan out, and he learns really good wildlife photography is a hassle and yet another case where it's more about the Indian than arrow.


Think it's pretty safe. Someone likely to spend the money (justify the investment) is not as apt to be on your 'give up' list.

Either way shouldn't change advice. It is what it is unless you would actually like to guide the efforts not panning out. Most who have pursued the photography hobby and chosen to get 'better' with better quality pictures and more flexibility...have gone through what hamernhonekrs did. Wasn't wasted time, was wasted money.

Rick - your last picture sold was what? A 35 mm film camera?

4x6 web pics have little to do with image quality and expandability. Show me a 20X30 print crystal clear and THAT is a quality photo.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:48 pm

hamernhonkers wrote:
The 5d3 was my first choice but I wanted a fast prime too, so it was body only or body and glass. With kids being the priority and not wildlife (specifically bif) the body/glass won the battle and for my needs it was the right choice.


Totally understand that. I'd love to own a few fixed length lenses Canon glass in 2.8 but a bit cost prohibitive to accomplish immediate goals. While sports is 'action' it's also well lit action. That said, as you know people would be surprised what light doesn't count in an outdoor stadium at night, when shooting behind the track.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby Rick Hall » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:06 pm

HNTFSH wrote:[
Rick - your last picture sold was what? A 35 mm film camera?

4x6 web pics have little to do with image quality and expandability. Show me a 20X30 print crystal clear and THAT is a quality photo.


Good ol' Kodachrome 64. But I missed the part about the OP wanting to sell to nationals. If he wants to begin at the top, he should definitely start with top equipment. If nothing else it will teach him right quick that there is a hell of a lot more to a quality photo than being crystal clear at 20x30.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby REM1100 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:12 am

Killer's comments are right on as I use an old laptop and the resolution and color is not calibrated, also my camera may have too much saturation and I have a cheap PP Picaso which I use, editing program which came with my camera caused my laptop to freeze.. I like to use the P setting and shot Spot to center the subject for more detail not caring for the the Thirds ideal. I know I should take the time and set up using A but some times the moment comes and goes by quickly and I can't reach some spots as I am handicapped. I get the enjoyment for getting close making the shot and catching the moment cause its fun.
Just remember wildlife photography can be addictive and you also need gear for portrait, macro and landscape which can fill up a big camera bag and drain your budget for other aspects of life.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby SPatrick » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:28 pm

Some of these I have posted before, but these are just a few examples of what kind of shots I am getting with my set up. If you click on them you can see the whole photo, for some reason they are cut off because of photo bucket. The first two were taken with the 50mm f1.8 lens. The other guys are right though that with full frame cameras the low light shooting is much much better than you will get with an entry level crop body, but again you can mitigate those issues with better, faster glass. Also on a side note, there has been little to no post shot processing on these, which I am sure would spice them up just a bit.

Image

Image

This one is an example of lower light, you can see the noise in the picture, I was shooting around 800ISO for this image:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Image

Image
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby OHIODUCKA5 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:46 pm

Nice pics Shaun
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby TXducksanddeer » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:12 pm

This thread is cool just looking at all these pics.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby SPatrick » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:27 pm

OHIODUCKA5 wrote:Nice pics Shaun


Thank you sir!!!!
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:42 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:[
Rick - your last picture sold was what? A 35 mm film camera?

4x6 web pics have little to do with image quality and expandability. Show me a 20X30 print crystal clear and THAT is a quality photo.


Good ol' Kodachrome 64. But I missed the part about the OP wanting to sell to nationals. If he wants to begin at the top, he should definitely start with top equipment. If nothing else it will teach him right quick that there is a hell of a lot more to a quality photo than being crystal clear at 20x30.


I asked you not him about selling a shot (i.e. the quality of a photo that folks dream to produce).

Either way there's form and content. If you really want nice photos and output you can do something with other than post on forums - it takes both.

Not a crime to aspire to for a new or old photog.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:50 pm

SPatrick wrote: If you click on them you can see the whole photo, for some reason they are cut off because of photo bucket.



Nice photos Shawn :thumbsup:

You can select the size for your post with photobucket and it will not cut them off. Also you might want to give Flicker or one of the other hosting sites a try as Photobucket really degrades photos when it compresses them for uploading and hosting :beer:
Last edited by hamernhonkers on Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:54 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
hamernhonkers wrote: While sports is 'action' it's also well lit action. That said, as you know people would be surprised what light doesn't count in an outdoor stadium at night, when shooting behind the track.


This sure is the truth! I have everything from ballet in near dark to low light gyms for basketball and then night baseball games. Light sure is hard to come by. That is why the 6d and a 200mm 2.8 was what I had to have :thumbsup:
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby SPatrick » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:54 am

hamernhonkers wrote:
SPatrick wrote: If you click on them you can see the whole photo, for some reason they are cut off because of photo bucket.



Nice photos Shawn :thumbsup:

You can select the size for your post with photobucket and it will not cut them off. Also you might want to give Flicker or one of the other hosting sites a try as Photobucket really degrades photos when it compresses them for uploading and hosting :beer:


Thanks, and thanks for the advice. Ill check them out!!!
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby SPatrick » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:57 am

Just testing this out.

Image
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby OHIODUCKA5 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:02 am

You pics are good Shaun. Now change your avatar to something other than your ugly mug.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby SPatrick » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:05 am

The world needs to see my beauty lol.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby OHIODUCKA5 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:06 am

SPatrick wrote:The world needs to see my beauty lol.


:lol3: :lol3:
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:08 am

HNTFSH wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:[
Rick - your last picture sold was what? A 35 mm film camera?

4x6 web pics have little to do with image quality and expandability. Show me a 20X30 print crystal clear and THAT is a quality photo.


Good ol' Kodachrome 64. But I missed the part about the OP wanting to sell to nationals. If he wants to begin at the top, he should definitely start with top equipment. If nothing else it will teach him right quick that there is a hell of a lot more to a quality photo than being crystal clear at 20x30.


I asked you not him about selling a shot (i.e. the quality of a photo that folks dream to produce).

Either way there's form and content. If you really want nice photos and output you can do something with other than post on forums - it takes both.

Not a crime to aspire to for a new or old photog.


Sure read like you were asking about my photo sales as though they were relevant to the thread about someone wanting to try waterfowl photography, so that is how I answered it. My advice to someone wanting to sell to the big kids in that market, much less today's, differs from that to someone thinking they might like to give wildlife photography a go.

I believe most folks who decide they'd like to try serious photography never get to or beyond the trying stage, in large part because of the expense of DSLR equipment and bother of lugging it around, problems the bridge camera I suggested greatly reduces.

And if one wants "output you can do something with other than post on forum," there's no reason he can't have it with a good "point and shoot". Precious few but you are going to view your 20x30 at computer monitor distance and marvel over how wonderfully sharp it is. Large prints are made to be looked at from a distance that negates "pixel peeping," and just like on a forum sharing level, whether the photo's subject and composition catch the viewer's interest is what really matters. (I've a wealthy amateur photog who comes every year just to shoot pictures with equipment that he often reminds me "will catch a flea jumping on that running dog," yet, none of 11x14? enlargements of my dogs he's been nice enough to send me has ever inspired so much as a genuine "Nice shot.", let alone "Neat.")

But having zero use for or interest in, much less experience with, such things, I Googled "fz200 20x30" prints, and this was the first listing: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51610324

Again, though, I'd as soon wanapasaki ignores my suggestion, so it won't be on me if he decides he's wasted his time and money. As mentioned in my initial post, I find even the relatively light and compact FZ150, that's roughly the same camera as what I've suggested only without the 200's 2.8 low light capabilities, more hassle to have on hand when subjects of interest to me present themselves than the little "travel zooms" I use much, much more, because the handiness of a camera that's almost always there far outweighs the clunkier camera's greater capabilities - for me.
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby wanapasaki » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:33 am

Like you said Rick, most don't get past the testing stage. I have no idea how serious I want to take it, but I do have fun trekking around during the off season and getting some cool pictures. I usual end up getting some real cool pics, and always wished I were using a real camera to catch it. Thanks for the advice, I will have to look into the Nikon. there is a lot of info on here I have to sift through. I appreciate all the insight you guys have shared!
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby SPatrick » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:07 am

snapsort is a great website to check out. You can type in any two cameras you are thinking about and it will give you the pluses and minuses of each one. I look through this site all the time. Here are two higher end "entry" level DSLR's one Canon one Nikon to look at.

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-70D-vs-Nikon-D7100
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Re: Questions about Waterfowl Photography?

Postby SPatrick » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:16 am

Also I kind of agree with what Rick is saying, it can be a bit of a burden to bring the camera with you everywhere you go, especially if you are a walk in hunter type with no where permanent to set your gear (you start to get pretty creative). It also really kind of tweaks your brain when you have 1500+ of electronics and glass hanging from your neck over a marsh. Just something to think about.
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