The looting in NO.

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The looting in NO.

Postby h2ofwlr » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:57 am

Here is an interesting take on it.

http://www.americandaily.com/article/9001




I myself think Martial Law should have been imposed----looters will be shot on sight! I do not take if they are white, balck or pink for that matter, color has NOTHING to do with it IMO.
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Postby Captain16 » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:12 am

I definately agree.....Looters shot on site! My heart goes out to all of the folks dealing with all the destruction in and LA and AL. Having to deal with idots that think it's right to do loot everything, when people are needing desperate help. Need to focus more on helping the people, and the city not grabbing whatever they can.
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Postby canadagoose » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:12 am

That's an interesting article. I was reading about the looting on CNN this morning, and didn't notice any mention of anybody's skin color. They also quoted a cop as saying he wouldn't stop people from looting food and water, but that he has drawn his gun on people going after weapons and ammunition.

This article is the first one I've seen that brings up any mention of race.
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Postby H-2-O-FOWL » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:33 am

If they are looting someones housev shoot them. If they are looting a store for food or water . I hope they find some. Everything in the stores that were flooded is going to be thrown out anyway. So if someone can find something to eat or drink in them more power to them.
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Re: The looting in NO.

Postby HuntingWife » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:17 pm

h2ofwlr wrote:I myself think Martial Law should have been imposed----looters will be shot on sight! I do not take if they are white, balck or pink for that matter, color has NOTHING to do with it IMO.


Martial law HAS been imposed in New Orleans. It was on CNN yesterday. They mentioned it's the first time martial law has been enacted since WWII (in Hawaii after the attack on Pearl Harbor). Too bad it's not doing much good.
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Postby h2ofwlr » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:10 pm

Now they are shooting at the rescue helicopters :eek: :pissed: Call in the military gunships to escort the medical evac 'copters with orders to shoot on sight any one shooting or attempting to shoot at them. A few bursts of m60 full auto machine gun fire and the residents will get it loud and clear that the Govt means business about martial law.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... htm?csp=24

It sure makes me proud that when Grand Forks ND/ East Grand Forks MN flooded out about 7 years back that there was none of this looting going on. Them people in NO sure are different than a folks up here are, thats for sure.


On a side note, it'll take huge facilities to house the people, how about using the military bases that were to be or are closed to house them for a while?
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Postby jasonphoto01 » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:36 pm

unless youve been there first hand you cant even imagine whats going on. im asamed to be an american right now as the help from the us goverment is almost non existent. alot of us from LA are helping out are fellow ppl are selves. people are mad right now because there is no help! could you imagine your state of mind after here food and water is coming for 3 days straight with nothing still there! i dont think the ppl shooting at help or looting for guns and tvs can be condoned but looting for food and water....i think they should. Its ashame we can get a million troops in iraq in a matter of hours but its takeing days to get water to N.O.
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Postby Captain16 » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:41 pm

I feel for you guys, I can't even imagine what it must be like down there for you guys. It is ashame as it seems like no one is in control of anything. I think there definately is no problem with looting for food or water, but all the electronics and guns, that is totally uncalled for. You guys are definately in our thoughts and prayers.
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:31 pm

jasonphoto01 wrote:unless youve been there first hand you cant even imagine whats going on. im asamed to be an american right now as the help from the us goverment is almost non existent. alot of us from LA are helping out are fellow ppl are selves. people are mad right now because there is no help! could you imagine your state of mind after here food and water is coming for 3 days straight with nothing still there! i dont think the ppl shooting at help or looting for guns and tvs can be condoned but looting for food and water....i think they should. Its ashame we can get a million troops in iraq in a matter of hours but its takeing days to get water to N.O.


That is absolutely ridiculas. I feel bad for you guys, but looting is looting.

You people had plenty of warning to get the hell out of there, but you all wanted to act so damn tough like it is no big deal. Well guess what it was on hell of a big deal. Now you want help. Well the help you got was a warning to get out of town. Now all of the tax payers are going to help you guys build up another city below sea level. that is real smart.

My prayers are with you guys, but use some common since.
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Postby greenster » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:54 pm

Ace have you ever though to open your mind for a sec and think that some of those people could not leave, they did not have a way, or maybe there where in HOSP. Fact is most people who stayed where too poor but there is quite a few who stayed by choice. To the looter’s I hope them TV’s due you good sitting in 4ft water with no electricity and those 20” rims do you good when you starve to death..
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Postby gahunter » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:27 pm

I agree with everyone about the looting. Food and water is one thing, but TV's and jewelry?! Shoot the SOB's. One of the funniest images that I have seen was this black guy with ONE arm load of loot. I say one, because he had to use his other hand to hold up his pants.
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Postby gunman » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:41 pm

greenster wrote:Ace have you ever though to open your mind for a sec and think that some of those people could not leave, they did not have a way, or maybe there where in HOSP. Fact is most people who stayed where too poor but there is quite a few who stayed by choice. To the looter’s I hope them TV’s due you good sitting in 4ft water with no electricity and those 20” rims do you good when you starve to death..


I personally agree with ACE, I'm sure the cities had some type of transportation for the public, I really doubt they sat back and said..."oww you don't have a car...we'll I guess you can just drowned then" no, I don't think so. I can maybe buy the Hospital excuse, but everyone else was by there own accord.
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Postby ks_waterfowler » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:43 pm

I'd help them carry food and water, cause I feel sorry for them. However I have to ask: How the hell didn't they see something like this coming? Your town is below sea level. I know many people that have little sympathyfor them. Then you go shooting at the rescue helicopters! That's real intelligent. I do feel bad for the people who had no choice (hospitals, disabled, etc) but no transportation? I can walk a hell of a long ways in the week before, especially knowing my city is 20 ft below sea level.

Give me a gun and some ammo. When they are getting shot maybe they will think twice about looting. I have seen the worst in people the last few days.

As far as the govt. They have other things going on too. Bush refused help from 20 other nations (including Canada). He isn't handling this very well, but nothing like this has ever happened so they don't what they needed. FEMA sent our FD an email looking for volunteers. We had a couple guys thinking about it (including myself) but if them idiots are gonna shoot at me when I am trying to help them I ain't goin down there.
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:44 pm

greenster wrote:Ace have you ever though to open your mind for a sec and think that some of those people could not leave, they did not have a way, or maybe there where in HOSP. Fact is most people who stayed where too poor but there is quite a few who stayed by choice. To the looter’s I hope them TV’s due you good sitting in 4ft water with no electricity and those 20” rims do you good when you starve to death..


greenster, I do understand, and I know that my view is very harsh. I have been talking about this tonight with some family members. If someone said to me "Josh, you could die in 3 days if you don't get out of town" :eek: I am here to tell ya, that no matter my education level or my finacial situation. COME HELL OR HIGH WATER, I would be getting out of town.

I think that most of those people know that it is going to be terrible, but they also know that the U.S. Government will take care of them. Most of these people have looked to someone else to take care of them and to blame for all of their lifes problems. Just like H2O's post. It's always someone elses fault.
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Postby canadagoose » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:32 pm

I really don't think you can paint everyone in the city right now with the same brush.

I don't recall exactly when the mandatory evacuation decision was made, but I've read that the government didn't have sufficient manpower to actually enforce it.

When the mandatory evacuation order was given, did the government offer free transportation to a location where people could stay for free? There are people who do not have the cash or the credit to get themselves out of the area and house and feed themselves while they're away.

And if free transporation, room, and board were offered, did people know it? That takes us back to the manpower issue, because it's takes people and resources to get the message out and get people onto buses.

What about that elderly grandmother you've been taking care of in the last years of her life. She certainly can't push her walker a few miles down the street to a bus depot. Someone has to come pick her up since you don't have a car.

Also, don't forget that the shelters don't take animals. Supposed you're poor, and you have a dog. Do you turn your dog loose to drown, or do you stick by him and hope it won't be that bad?

I'm not saying that everyone there right now is completely innocent of bad decisions, I'm just saying that lots of people were tracking the approaching storm, weighing the chance of disaster against their resources, spending time doing things that would help them ride out a storm, etc. I'm sure people realise in hind sight that they made the wrong choice.

I'm sure there are some idiots who were looking forward to the looting opportunites as well. I'm happy to see those people taken down.

But to blame everyone who's there right now ignores the complexities of the situation.

I mean, we here in California know there's a big earthquake coming, right? When it hits, the power could easily be out for a long time, and we could be stuck with no gas or clean water, no food distribution, etc.

When that happens, do you want the rest of the country to blame you for being stupid enough to live here? Do you want them to blame you for not having enough water, food, batteries, etc.?
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Postby cast-n-blast » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:09 am

canadagoose wrote:When the mandatory evacuation order was given, did the government offer free transportation to a location where people could stay for free?

Also, don't forget that the shelters don't take animals. Supposed you're poor, and you have a dog. Do you turn your dog loose to drown, or do you stick by him and hope it won't be that bad?

I mean, we here in California know there's a big earthquake coming, right? When it hits, the power could easily be out for a long time, and we could be stuck with no gas or clean water, no food distribution, etc. When that happens, do you want the rest of the country to blame you for being stupid enough to live here? Do you want them to blame you for not having enough water, food, batteries, etc.?
:pissed:

Open your eyes! It takes someone (not all) from California to pull out the "free" card. You guys are allways wanting a free lunch. Nothing Is Free! It comes out of your pocket as well as mine, & the dog thing...come on! Hmmmm, your life or the dog's, let me think, thats a tough one. These people knew it was coming, they made a decision & it was a poor one. It's not even in the same ball park as an earthquake. An earthquake comes with little or no warning, these people had several days to evac. Ace hits it right on the head.

Now don't get me wrong, I do feel bad that mother nature decided to unleash her wrath on Americans, and Americans are dead, but let's stop blaming the govt. & let's start taking responsibility for our own decisions. Let's come together, let's get our people to safety, let's get them fed & watered, let's get this mess cleaned up, & let's move on! It's what we do. As for the looters & the shooters, Zero Tolerence! If they need food/water...thats human nature to want to survive, but anyone looting an other's belongings and not trying to build a raft with them, shoot 'em. (I'd say jail 'em, but that would take too long, and the officer's time is better spent helping someone who needs it.

p.s. Maybe the next time they build a city on the coast that's below sealevel, they'll put the houses on stilts.
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Postby CLUTCHfan » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:18 am

This is just another great example of the difference between urban and rural populations. In a rural town, when things go bad, everyone helps out those in need. If there is a crisis or disaster the community rallies and people give whatever they can, and do whatever they can to help their neighbors, rich or poor. In these big cities, much (notice I didn't say all) of the citizenry show the absolute worse side of human nature. And yes, I have lived in a decent size city. And yes, that is why I live in the country now.
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Postby h2ofwlr » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:56 am

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... htm?csp=24
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... cape_x.htm
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16455035-2,00.html

The following is from a post on another site:

what's really going on in New Orleans

This was posted by fellow UKC-HRC member whose sone is in the LA Nat'l Guard

It is with much trepidation that I make this post, but I feel like I need to let everyone know what is really going on in the CBD of New Orleans. I need to vent also. Christie and I just spoke with our son, who is with the LA National Guard and in NO. They have been taking fire since the day he arrived. Wednesday night, his squad was holding in the NO Convention Center when they were attacked by a group of thugs with AK47s. They had to fire fight their way out and made it to the Superdome. This morning as they made their way from the Superdome to the end of Canal, he spent 6 clips of ammo in this 10 block span. They found the Riverwalk burning. I am not sure why, and neither are these young men, our politicians feel they need to hide the actions of these criminals from us. Our son reports that there are bodies everywhere and most have died from gunfire, not the storm.
Please keep all those who are in NO to rescue those that are in need in your thoughts and prayers. He says that although he was trained to do just exactly what he is doing, he never in his wildest dreams thought he would be doing it in his home of LA. It is all very confusing for these young men.

~~~~~~


My question is this---If in fact the above post is true, why have not the news media reported that the dead bodies floating around are from violence VS the storms?
And secondly, why are the media not reporting what the Guard/LE are really up against?

My hunch is the liberal based media will not report the truth for fear of allienating their liberal based followers. I bet they'll say these murders, rapers, etc are "victims" :pissed: I say BS! they are criminals preying on the innocent citizens of NO in the very worst of circumstances. :eek:

I really feel for the NO folks, as I helped up at Grand Forks ND 7 years ago with their flood. The 95% of the good NO folks are getting a bad review because of the 5% of the law breakers there. But even the Cops are going AWOL and turning in their badges--you know it is really bad down there. :eek: :eek: :eek:
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Postby canadagoose » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:12 am

cast-n-blast wrote:Open your eyes! It takes someone (not all) from California to pull out the "free" card. You guys are allways wanting a free lunch. Nothing Is Free! It comes out of your pocket as well as mine, & the dog thing...come on! Hmmmm, your life or the dog's, let me think, thats a tough one. These people knew it was coming, they made a decision & it was a poor one. It's not even in the same ball park as an earthquake. An earthquake comes with little or no warning, these people had several days to evac. Ace hits it right on the head.

Now don't get me wrong, I do feel bad that mother nature decided to unleash her wrath on Americans, and Americans are dead, but let's stop blaming the govt. & let's start taking responsibility for our own decisions. Let's come together, let's get our people to safety, let's get them fed & watered, let's get this mess cleaned up, & let's move on! It's what we do. As for the looters & the shooters, Zero Tolerence! If they need food/water...thats human nature to want to survive, but anyone looting an other's belongings and not trying to build a raft with them, shoot 'em. (I'd say jail 'em, but that would take too long, and the officer's time is better spent helping someone who needs it.

p.s. Maybe the next time they build a city on the coast that's below sealevel, they'll put the houses on stilts.


Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that it's the government's responsibility to provide a free evacuation and free housing to everyone affected. I don't believe everyone should have a free lunch. If I lived there, I would have had the resources to get myself out of the area and would be able to live elsewhere for a while.

I was pointing out that not everyone has the resources to take care of themselves in a situation such as this, and as a result I don't believe it's fair to lump blame on everyone who is there. Many of the posts I've read here suggest that everyone who is there right now deserves what they got because they didn't heed the evacuation order. I'm trying to point out that situations like this are not simply black or white.

I'm also not blaming the government. I'm just trying to point out that in a situation like this, even though the bulk of the people did evacuate, there are always some who just can't do it without help.

Yes, there are some who are there who could have left, but decided to stay. Yes, there are people who are taking advantage of the collapse of civil society to rape and pillage. But not all of them.

Fortunately, the national guard and marines are moving in to restore order.
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Postby canadagoose » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:20 am

Here's an interesting link. http://mgno.com/

That's the blog of a guy who is keeping some networking equipment up and running through all of this in New Orleans. He describes people who knew they'd get through the storm and flooding fine, because they are up on high ground. What they didn't anticipate was the complete collapse of civil society as the police command and control broke down and selfish idiots took over the streets. The police have no communication system in place anymore. They have no rules of engagement. They have no place to take anyone they arrest.

These guys are understandably shaken given the situation they're in, with people shooting at the rescuers. I've read that 20% of the police have not reported back in for duty.

Apparently any attempt to approach them results in weapons coming to the ready and people being waved away.

Scary stuff.
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Postby DROPDUX » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:53 am

does anybody keep emergency rations in their homes anymore? Growing up in CA (earthquake territory) they taught us that in elementary school. At least a couple jugs of water? I'm sure people in potential disaster areas will prepare a little now.
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:44 pm

Dropdux, I have several gal. of water on hand at all times. You just never know.

As for the local law inforcement agencies not having "rules for engagemen" i say shoot to kill. If in fact we are really going to rebuild this rediculas city below the water line again. Then the city of NO doesn't need these kinds of heathens roaming around. Thin them out now and have a better city tomarrow.

I honestly can't believe i am saying some of this, but i have reached a breaking point, I am sick and tired of people letting crap go. I just heard on the news, that the number of Rapes and Murders in the last few days are uncountable. That there is zero tolerance. I say back away and drop some bombs. That will be the cheepest way out of this mess.
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Postby canadagoose » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:47 pm

We have a ceramic filter (Katadyne) for camping, and 500 gallons of water in my hot tub out back. The woman across the street has a pool I'm sure she'd share, although during the '89 earthquake I think about half the water jumped out of it.

We should really have more in the way of food rations stashed away, although I have a shotgun and there are a few meals worth of squirrels and racoons living in my neighborhood.
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I'm pretty sure that in a crisis my working class neighborhood would pull together to share resources. The scary thing is the barrio a few blocks from here where there was a gang shooting in the middle of the day a couple months ago. There is the potential for a few bad apples to come wandering our direction looking for stuff.

Perhaps we should start one of those polls: What type of ammo and choke do people prefer to use on looters? :smile:
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:25 pm

canadagoose wrote:
Perhaps we should start one of those polls: What type of ammo and choke do people prefer to use on looters? :smile:


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Postby Admin2 » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:10 pm

It's a sad state of affairs down there. I suspect that if they were not shooting at the rescuers, there would have been more assistance sooner.

If you are in the position to help the people $ wise, make a call or visit the American Red Cross website http://www.redcross.org/


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