New Guys - Some Advice

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New Guys - Some Advice

Postby ajmorell » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:55 pm

While out hunting this morning down in Pena Blanca I noticed a few things that upset me a bit. The guys I witnessed were almost certainly novice hunters, and I don't think they knew any better so I'm not particularly upset with them, at least I'm chalking it up to inexperience to give them the benefit of the doubt. I do not know if these guys are on this site or not, if so and you are reading this don't take it as an attack, I'm just trying to help you out before you get yourselves into trouble.

1-Check, check and double check to make sure you know what birds are in season. I witnessed this particular group of guys unload on several flocks of Canada Geese, killing at least one. Per page 20 of the RIB, dark geese are not in season in Sandoval county until December 31. I had half a mind to call it in as poaching but I did not. I drove around looking for these guys so I could let them know for future reference but I wasn't able to find them. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. Now that I know who you are I will call you in next time.

2-Understand the effective range of a shotgun. There were several groups of ducks today that they shot at that were way outside of range (75+ yards away). This was particularly frustrating for me as some of the groups were headed my way until you sky busted them and flared them away elsewhere.

3-I'm perfectly fine with people jumpshooting ducks, if that's your cup of tea so be it. However, walking up on someone else's spread and shooting at a duck they just missed when you're practically right next to them is unacceptable. Have some respect for other people and give them adequate space.
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby mountainman » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:21 pm

I agree with your points.

However, maybe you should add a forth check to the proclamation. Dark geese are never legal at Pena. There are five counties closed to the regular dark goose season and only three of them are open to the MRGV hunt in January. Bernalillo and Sandoval are always closed for dark geese, and the other counties open on January 1st, not December 31st. This information is found on pages 19 and 21 of the proclamation. People will always make mistakes, but as you said, "Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law."
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby StevenL » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:09 pm

No need for the serenade, AJ. If you think the situation at PB is bad during waterfowl season, you have never been there during the summer when fishing is ON and duck hunting is OFF. Leftover blinds from last season are still there -3 of them anyway- and with so much covetous talk about ownership through building, also rights to use if occupied before builder arrives, what somebody is going do if somebody does this or that, etc., etc., etc. Have you taken time to also notice random piles of empty shot shell hulls so neatly arranged in one spot or many others from the north end of PB to the south end, that it is obvious whoever does it is proud to leave their nameless calling card as evidence of their uncaring presence and performance? On Saturday last week, a friend and I were angling for Pike on the east side of the Rio mid-way between the north beach and the phone cable at PB where the water is too deep and too fast for placement of decoys; let alone a hunter who cares about what may happen to his dog. We had arrived near 7 that morning and had only begun to string our rigs when many shots up-river echoed through the basin. Not more than 10 minutes later there was a scattered procession of 3 dead ducks floating past our stand on the bank – too far from reach with our net to retrieve and quick enough in the current to elude our cast with large lures. A short while later, we were fishing beneath the phone cable and heard voices down river. They were approaching our position at or about the same time we could here the folks north getting ready to leave. Two young men wearing boots, blue jeans, and heavy jackets but no waders, emerged form the brush on our side of the river and seemed surprised by our quiet presence. They were armed with shotguns and each man was carrying a brace of ducks ranging in species as Mallard drakes and hens, American Wigeon drakes and hens, and one drake Golden Eye. So, without waders and the absence of a dog, it was obvious to me these young men were jump shooters who had probably lost more ducks that morning than they were able to collect, and young sons of local resident adults no doubt.

In late October, I went to PB one evening to hunt duck my first time ever. I say, “first time”, because I’ve never had the desire to be any place where a bunch of dumb-asses with big-bore guns might get a tad more than excited if I were to point out the most minor indiscretions they so regularly commit but I have had the inconvenience to witness more times than I care to make account of. The NMDGF Field Officer, whose district includes that of PB is a darn good man. And I could not, would not say so if I did not have prior experiences of interaction with the man.

Over four years past, most of my outdoor experience at PB has been during summer months when the water is warm and small groups of illegal Mexican men use cast nets and seine nets to illegally catch and keep game fish of every species the Rio Grande holds. I’ve reported it, I’ve photographed it, and I’ve filmed it. But to no avail with even the biggest law dogs of NMDGF. The Cast Iron Ranger can kiss my honkey ass. You would think an area so small as PB (but a bad reputation indeed) has earned more attention than the occasional call to Operation Game Thief.
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby civillobo » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:50 pm

Great note Andy,

Especially - know the range of your shotgun. Ducks are really hard to kill using steel plus having an nice shot at the belly. You will almost never get a kill when the ducks are flying away from you. If you miss them over the decoys let them go, take your lumps. You will most likely just wound them and nobody wants that.

It bugs me when I hear alot of shooting and think there are ducks coming into a near by spread, then I find out people are shooting at specs in the sky. The ducks are already skittish and shooting just to shoot just makes sure anyone near by that went to the trouble of setting out a spread will not have a chance at getting them to decoy in.

I have never seen someone walk up on my decoy spread. That would freak me out, and I would be dumbfounded if they shot at birds while they were there. That is waaaay out of line. I hope I never see that happen, crazy stuff.
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby ajmorell » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:23 am

mountainman wrote:I agree with your points.

However, maybe you should add a forth check to the proclamation. Dark geese are never legal at Pena. There are five counties closed to the regular dark goose season and only three of them are open to the MRGV hunt in January. Bernalillo and Sandoval are always closed for dark geese, and the other counties open on January 1st, not December 31st. This information is found on pages 19 and 21 of the proclamation. People will always make mistakes, but as you said, "Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law."


Mountainman, that's good information to know. Looking at the RIB it is definitely not clear regarding that though. Can you point me to where you found that information? Here is what I was referring to:

Verbatim from the RIB:

p.17
Dark Goose Oct. 15- 4 daily, 8 in possession.
(Canada and Jan. 29, '12
white-fronted goose)
Sandoval, Bernalillo, Valencia, Socorro and Sierra counties are
closed to dark goose hunting during the regular season. See
page 20 for MRGV Dark Goose Season.

p.20
Middle Rio Grande Valley
Dark Goose Hunt
Middle Rio Grande Valley dark goose hunters are no longer
required to have an MRGV dark goose permit.
Dates Bag/Season
Dec. 31-Jan. 22, '12 2 per day / 2 per season


http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publica ... IB_Web.pdf
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby ajmorell » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:31 am

StevenL wrote:No need for the serenade, AJ. If you think the situation at PB is bad during waterfowl season, you have never been there during the summer when fishing is ON and duck hunting is OFF. Leftover blinds from last season are still there -3 of them anyway- and with so much covetous talk about ownership through building, also rights to use if occupied before builder arrives, what somebody is going do if somebody does this or that, etc., etc., etc. Have you taken time to also notice random piles of empty shot shell hulls so neatly arranged in one spot or many others from the north end of PB to the south end, that it is obvious whoever does it is proud to leave their nameless calling card as evidence of their uncaring presence and performance? On Saturday last week, a friend and I were angling for Pike on the east side of the Rio mid-way between the north beach and the phone cable at PB where the water is too deep and too fast for placement of decoys; let alone a hunter who cares about what may happen to his dog. We had arrived near 7 that morning and had only begun to string our rigs when many shots up-river echoed through the basin. Not more than 10 minutes later there was a scattered procession of 3 dead ducks floating past our stand on the bank – too far from reach with our net to retrieve and quick enough in the current to elude our cast with large lures. A short while later, we were fishing beneath the phone cable and heard voices down river. They were approaching our position at or about the same time we could here the folks north getting ready to leave. Two young men wearing boots, blue jeans, and heavy jackets but no waders, emerged form the brush on our side of the river and seemed surprised by our quiet presence. They were armed with shotguns and each man was carrying a brace of ducks ranging in species as Mallard drakes and hens, American Wigeon drakes and hens, and one drake Golden Eye. So, without waders and the absence of a dog, it was obvious to me these young men were jump shooters who had probably lost more ducks that morning than they were able to collect, and young sons of local resident adults no doubt.

In late October, I went to PB one evening to hunt duck my first time ever. I say, “first time”, because I’ve never had the desire to be any place where a bunch of dumb-asses with big-bore guns might get a tad more than excited if I were to point out the most minor indiscretions they so regularly commit but I have had the inconvenience to witness more times than I care to make account of. The NMDGF Field Officer, whose district includes that of PB is a darn good man. And I could not, would not say so if I did not have prior experiences of interaction with the man.

Over four years past, most of my outdoor experience at PB has been during summer months when the water is warm and small groups of illegal Mexican men use cast nets and seine nets to illegally catch and keep game fish of every species the Rio Grande holds. I’ve reported it, I’ve photographed it, and I’ve filmed it. But to no avail with even the biggest law dogs of NMDGF. The Cast Iron Ranger can kiss my honkey ass. You would think an area so small as PB (but a bad reputation indeed) has earned more attention than the occasional call to Operation Game Thief.


Well I'm glad I'm not the only one. I never had to deal with this type of thing living in MI. I know exactly what you're talking about regarding the blinds and shotgun hulls, on more than one occasion I have filled plastic grocery bags full of them and brought them home to throw out. That same group of 2 guys who you saw last week walked past us as well. I was out retrieving a duck when I saw another floating down the river. My hunter partner had no sooner walked out there to get it and those guys came walking out of the bushes and asked if he would retrieve it for them :mad: . They then proceeded to walk another 200 yards down river and sky blasted ducks that were coming our way. I did see one of them wade out into the river with no waders on, I don't think I need to state how stupid that was. At about that point we packed our stuff up and left, luckily we had a decent enough day before they showed up. I'm almost certain this was the same group of guys yesterday plus they had another with them as they acted the exact same way. I understand how it feels to be new to something, like I stated in another thread, this is my first year hunting in NM. But the one thing I was taught from hunting with my dad, uncles, and grandpa's is that hunting IS NOT about the kill....here in NM a lot of people don't seem to have that mentality.
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby ajmorell » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:35 am

civillobo wrote:I have never seen someone walk up on my decoy spread. That would freak me out, and I would be dumbfounded if they shot at birds while they were there. That is waaaay out of line. I hope I never see that happen, crazy stuff.

It maybe wasn't quite as drastic as I described. They didn't shoot at a duck over my decoy spread, but they were maybe 30 yards away from me when they shot at the duck I had just missed. Either way, still inexcusable in my books. Now that I know who these guys are (I know what they drive, even wrote down their lic. plate #) if I see them again I am going to have a talk with them (a civil one) and try to get them on the straight and narrow. I'm naive enough to believe that maybe they just don't know what they're doing....



I'd be more than willing to give new guys some pointers, even let them hunt with me for a morning or two if it helped to avoid these types of situations.
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby randy marci » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:36 am

ajmorell wrote:
mountainman wrote:I agree with your points.

However, maybe you should add a forth check to the proclamation. Dark geese are never legal at Pena. There are five counties closed to the regular dark goose season and only three of them are open to the MRGV hunt in January. Bernalillo and Sandoval are always closed for dark geese, and the other counties open on January 1st, not December 31st. This information is found on pages 19 and 21 of the proclamation. People will always make mistakes, but as you said, "Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law."


Mountainman, that's good information to know. Looking at the RIB it is definitely not clear regarding that though. Can you point me to where you found that information? Here is what I was referring to:

Verbatim from the RIB:

p.17
Dark Goose Oct. 15- 4 daily, 8 in possession.
(Canada and Jan. 29, '12
white-fronted goose)
Sandoval, Bernalillo, Valencia, Socorro and Sierra counties are
closed to dark goose hunting during the regular season. See
page 20 for MRGV Dark Goose Season.

p.20
Middle Rio Grande Valley
Dark Goose Hunt
Middle Rio Grande Valley dark goose hunters are no longer
required to have an MRGV dark goose permit.
Dates Bag/Season
Dec. 31-Jan. 22, '12 2 per day / 2 per season


http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publica ... IB_Web.pdf


seems as though a fifth check of the regs is in order :lol3:
this is where all the cool kids put how many ducks they kill
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby randy marci » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:41 am

all this talk of ducks floating down the river remind me of the recent talk on here of shooting 40 ducks but only recovering 10 due to the current. maybe 2 and 2 be 4.
this is where all the cool kids put how many ducks they kill
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Re: Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby ajmorell » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:00 pm

randy marci wrote:all this talk of ducks floating down the river remind me of the recent talk on here of shooting 40 ducks but only recovering 10 due to the current. maybe 2 and 2 be 4.

X2 but I'm not going to assume it was those guys without them confirming it first

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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby duckahlr » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:17 pm

If you had such an issue with these guys, why sit there and watch. Go say something to them. All of the negative postings on these sites are gonna do nothing but get these public hunting areas shut down. Handle your business.. You've got to figure the LAW is on these sites as much as anyone. They can't be everywhere, time to police ourselves and try to educated/help others. There are alot of slobs in this state, lets not let the few ruin it for all. I know alot of kids that are being brought up the right way and this is the stuff that will end their hunting future. Do your Damage. Enjoy the weather!!!
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Re: Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby ajmorell » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:34 pm

duckahlr wrote:If you had such an issue with these guys, why sit there and watch. Go say something to them. All of the negative postings on these sites are gonna do nothing but get these public hunting areas shut down. Handle your business.. You've got to figure the LAW is on these sites as much as anyone. They can't be everywhere, time to police ourselves and try to educated/help others. There are alot of slobs in this state, lets not let the few ruin it for all. I know alot of kids that are being brought up the right way and this is the stuff that will end their hunting future. Do your Damage. Enjoy the weather!!!

As I said earlier, I did look for them after I picked up but was not able to track them down

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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby CHEWYDUCK » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:00 pm

My son and I were hunting on Sunday west of the handicap pond at the La joya Sevilleta border. We hardly saw anything at all. There were guys shooting all morning just north of us off the bank, but we couldn't see them. We never saw anything they were shooting at. They left very early, so we thought maybe they had open water and walked up there. What we found was disturbing to say the least. They were shooting coots. There were a dozen coots dead in the water. There were another dozen dead on the road, 1/2 a dozen or so were circling wounded in the water. And on our way back to the truck another 1/2 doz were left on the railroad track to get squashed. We think it was a white single cab smaller truck, but cant be sure. In 35 years of hunting I have never seen such a disregard for life or for the sport of duck hunting.
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby vlb » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:16 pm

That sucks! I'll let the coots run in my decoy spread anytime. I have to agree with CHEWYDUCK .
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Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby mountainman » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:29 pm

Andy,

Your original post regarding canada geese was completely accurate. For the past several seasons Bernalillo and Sandoval counties did not allow dark goose hunting. I was holding the proclamation in my hand as I typed my reply last night to insure its accuracy. However, I accidentally grabbed the 2010-2011 reg. book instead of the current book. It's seems the rules have changed and I didn't notice. I good lesson for me to double check that I am reading the appropriate book.

I apologize for my misleading post.
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Re: Re: New Guys - Some Advice

Postby ajmorell » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:55 pm

mountainman wrote:Andy,

Your original post regarding canada geese was completely accurate. For the past several seasons Bernalillo and Sandoval counties did not allow dark goose hunting. I was holding the proclamation in my hand as I typed my reply last night to insure its accuracy. However, I accidentally grabbed the 2010-2011 reg. book instead of the current book. It's seems the rules have changed and I didn't notice. I good lesson for me to double check that I am reading the appropriate book.

I apologize for my misleading post.


Hey, no problem that's why I asked. Always better to know for sure than to "think" you know

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