Ethical Question?

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Ethical Question?

Postby Blackfoot Inc » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:27 pm

Are unattended spreads ethical on PUBLIC lands? What say you?

Been hearing a lot of talk recently of people showing up at a location at O'dark thirty only to find that someone has put their spread up and are nowhere to be found, then they show up 15 mins before LST and expecting to hunt that location. Another words they've either left they're spread out after hunting there that day, or set up a spread the night before and are fully expecting to hunt that local.

IMHO, I don't believe in more regulation, fact of the matter is that NMG&F poorly manages current laws and basically has given up on managing waterfowl all together.Fact!!
Intent, to me is the question? By setting up the night before those individuals are attempting to take possession of that location and keep others out. I also believe decoys should be picked up nightly and never be left setting overnight. Many states have laws on this matter.

What are your thoughts? How would you handle showing up and seeing a spread on a spot your planning to hunt, and if you were the one who set decoys out the night before and showed up to find your spread in a pile and were asked to remove it.

Define first come first served.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:16 pm

What's the difference ? If people don't put them out the night before they will just be getting up early, setting them up and go sleep in their truck. Just depends if people want to chance leaving their stuff. I have put them out the night before but then again I only live minutes away





Also if it's public land that permits use for hunting , how is setting up the night before wrong? If the land is for duck hunting wouldn't the act of putting decoys be a part of that? Just sounds like the early bird getting the worm and the late one maD.

Don't get me wrong I do get what your saying. Maybe we need to use the system like at bitter lakes. An automatic gate that opens at a certain time and no entry prior.
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby the high life man » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:35 pm

Depends. G&H or Dakotas I keep myself. All others get bagged up a sent adrift.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby quackadikt » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:37 pm

Decoys don't hold a spot. Period. If you aren't there but your decoys are when I get there, I'm hunting there and your decoys will probably be sitting in a pretty pile on the bank. Get your ass up and get to where you want to hunt. Otherwise, take what's leftover. It's the same as permanent blinds on public land that the "owner" doesn't want anyone else to hunt.
"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby beastmode » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:14 pm

quackadikt wrote:Decoys don't hold a spot. Period. If you aren't there but your decoys are when I get there, I'm hunting there and your decoys will probably be sitting in a pretty pile on the bank. Get your ass up and get to where you want to hunt. Otherwise, take what's leftover. It's the same as permanent blinds on public land that the "owner" doesn't want anyone else to hunt.


I agree. If you want the best spot get there early that morning and set up. If you have hours til shoot time take a nap in the blind. If you are too lazy to put in the work go buy your own blind.

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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby STICKLER » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:02 am

Though I don't know you Blackfoot, I have a feeling you started this thread due to what happened to Derrick A. and I on the Butte yesterday. Here's the full story: Late Friday afternoon, Derrick and I pulled up to a boat ramp on the Butte and saw an airboat and a mud boat coming back from an area we frequented. We got our boat launched for an evening hunt. Near about the time we got our limits, we noticed several spinners, decoys and 2 final approach floating layout blinds with nobody present right on the x and where we planned to hunt the next morning. I told Derrick that we are still hunting here regardless. We pulled our asses out of bed at 2am and got to the spot at 4am. Close to shooting time, we here an airboat fire up and headed to what I now considered our spot, within a few minutes. Anyway, after he pulls up and sees us, he walked over and we shook hands and said his name was Matt and had a southern accent. He asked if we wanted to hunt with him ***??? I told him this is now our spot and we wanted to hunt alone. He said this is my equipment and said we were being A-holes. I laid in to him about it being public land and how to properly stake a claim. I told him we are hunting here and that's final. He said he was going to leave his airboat right where it's at in the open so nobody will get any birds from the spot. Well, we were there to hunt, so we flanked the spot from either side. Derrick got his limit in probably 20min and it took me till noon to get 5 greenheads. His clients or friends shot so many hen Mallards, I don't know how they kept it legal. They had a shoreline lunch fairly close to the X so fewer birds were working the area. We also found a lot of old dead birds floating nearby. Anyone who hunts the Butte, watch out for this idiot who thinks he owns the state park. I hope he gets his one of these days.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:12 am

Just trying to find the logic here quackaddict.so don't put decoys the night before just show up early as crap which might as well be the night before .why do you only have problems with stuff that you get the raw end of the deal on ? #poor sport.just find a spot people don't hit and this wouldn't be a problem

Love how it's looked at as wrong for people to set up the night before but it's thought of as ok to screw with peoples equipment ? I long for the day someone touches my equipment.
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Dirt » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:43 am

Back for more wrote:What's the difference ? If people don't put them out the night before they will just be getting up early, setting them up and go sleep in their truck. Just depends if people want to chance leaving their stuff. I have put them out the night before but then again I only live minutes away





Also if it's public land that permits use for hunting , how is setting up the night before wrong? If the land is for duck hunting wouldn't the act of putting decoys be a part of that? Just sounds like the early bird getting the worm and the late one maD.

Don't get me wrong I do get what your saying. Maybe we need to use the system like at bitter lakes. An automatic gate that opens at a certain time and no entry prior.


I'm confused. You say you get what he is saying.
So if I get to a spot first in the am and decoys are there with no persons present would I be the early bird and the guy who isn't there with his decoys be maD or would the guy who left his decoys out the previous day be the early bird and me who showed up first to the spot be maD?
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:58 am

Would you be first ? First to the spot or first to the spot that day ? So if someone puts decoys at 1201 a.m. is that not the night before
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:05 am

And no it really doesn't matter to me . Nobody hunts the majority of my spots. Funny thing about having good locations is if one is taken you can go to another. Don't be a ONE TRICK PONY.

it's a lot of headache over ducks, but we all have a strong passion for these bad boys
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"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby quackadikt » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:46 am

I'm not going to argue with your dumb ass again about this kind of thing. Decoys don't hold spots, period. Blinds on public ground are public property. Putting out decoys to claim a spot is the lazy way of doing things. And I'm not screwing with your equipment, I'm just setting it on the bank so it's out of my way. I'm the farthest thing from a poor sport...what I am is someone with that doesn't appreciate people trying to claim public ground without their body being there. If I go to hunt spot "x" and someone is already there, zero hard feelings and I'm heading down the road to my next spot. If they aren't there but their decoys are, looks like I'm still hunting spot "x".

Public land guides....the owners of all public ground.
"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:53 am

so let's go inspect all spots if there's decoys there and make sure someone is monitoring them ? PATHETIC. FYI YOUR NOT A GAME WARDEN. Thanks to people like you , once a good spot is found you will never hunt it because its off the beaten path.
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:14 pm

Leave your crap wherever you want, just don't piss and moan when you show back up and it's being used by someone else, gone, or trashed.
Sorry folks, park's closed...
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:32 pm

Ya that's the chance you take by leaving stuff
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Dirt » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:21 pm

I would like to elaborate a little more about this guy Matt with the airboat.
Upon his arrival to us standing in the spot where he left his equip out he first asked if we would all like to hunt together. The reply was as stated above. His immediate reaction was anger that we would set up in a spot where number one his equipment is located, two where he had just hunted the previous day, and three in such a large massive area. Let me sidetrack and mention the X factor. Any experienced waterfowlers knows what the x is. I will let others explain whom do not know. This spot is THE X. Not where duck commander hunted Monday and Tuesday. What I'm about to say is a known unwritten fact. You do not leave your decoys out on public land period. Let alone the X of public land NM. So we weren't gonna let this fool think he could pull this kind of stunt without our attempt of at least teaching this guy a lesson. Believe me I've been down this road more than once. So it ultimately came down to as mentioned nobody is going to kill ducks in this spot if we can't.
As the day went along this guy commenced to shuttle in group after group of different people to shoot their birds. Limits of hens were immediately taken by all. Then towards noon when it was slow the airboat was driven around to stir things up a bit. I counted seven trucks at the ramp with this group. My question. Does anyone know this guy? Is he a guide? Dentist?
Just want to keep you folks informed,warned. This is YOUR public land and YOUR birds.
I would also like to know how everyone would handle this situation. I've seen some replies of no way no chance but what would have been your next step when he says "nobody is gonna kill any ducks in this hole today"

And back for more. Your opinions been heard thanks.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby quackadikt » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:15 pm

I'm done replying to our resident moron of a public land guide.

Dirt, I would have pulled out my coffee and started the waiting game. I'm a damn patient fella when I want to be. I would have done just what y'all did and sat there and killed some birds. I might have waited after 5 for a real long time and shot #6 about 30 minutes before LST.
"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:56 pm

I'd call every applicable law enforcement agency...game and fish, blm, sheriff, state po po...get as much info about dude as possible...plate number, etc. and watch him get charged with impeding my lawful taking of game. I'm not very confrontational. But I'm damn tenacious and quite spiteful when I wanna be.
Sorry folks, park's closed...
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:00 pm

Ya dirt I have ran into him. Dentist and drives silver Toyota pickup. Same attitude as mentioned
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby bandgitter91 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:33 pm

ya he is definitely a handful people like him are reason new people to hunting don't like it or just give us a bad rap to the general public.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby STICKLER » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:02 pm

:thumbsup:
jayclarkie wrote:I'd call every applicable law enforcement agency...game and fish, blm, sheriff, state po po...get as much info about dude as possible...plate number, etc. and watch him get charged with impeding my lawful taking of game. I'm not very confrontational. But I'm damn tenacious and quite spiteful when I wanna be.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby ghostingrey » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:46 am

Not to rub it in but I'm sure glad that I now live in South Dakota. It is illegal for guides to use public land or any of the privately owned walk in areas in the state. It sure would be nice if New Mexico could do the same. Public lands should not be used for profit by a few selfish guides.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby quackadikt » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:53 am

Public lands should not be used for profit by a few selfish guides.


Nope. You want to build a place like Habitat Flats and run a guide service, by all means go ahead. I wish I could. Public land and public resources should not be for money making. Sorry.
"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby KHerbst » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:31 pm

Good topic Blackfoot-

Going back here a bit, remember the question was about the Ethics? For "Matt the Dentist" to leave his airboat in plane sight in attemtp to scare DA's birds is not illegal and local law enforcement would not give you enough time to get the sentence out before telling you to buzz off. They have better things to do than regulate turf wars over ducks. Now should he have left his gear out to claim the spot.........that is pretty ballsy for sure.

In some states all blinds must be removed from state/public property at the close of season. Same blinds are considered private property-however the private nature only stops you from hunting in the blind. You can always set up 15 yards to the side. Some states also make it illegal to leave decoys out over night to claim ownership, other states dont allow access to state WMA's until 4AM.........the race is on!

Either way, the popularity of waterfowling......although on the rise in NM, is weak in comparison to big game. The only way to orchestrate change will be to influence the commission.

Our best bet- work it our amongst the parties and make sure we police our own. No different than leaving spent shells or trash! Picked up my share of trash/shells at my favorite goose spot recently. Dumb!!!!!
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:11 pm

KHerbst wrote:For "Matt the Dentist" to leave his airboat in plane sight in attemtp to scare DA's birds is not illegal and local law enforcement would not give you enough time to get the sentence out before telling you to buzz off. They have better things to do than regulate turf wars over ducks.


actually, if you knowingly and willingly interfere with someone's lawful taking of game, it is illegal, it's called Hunter Harassment. It may only be a petty misdemeanor, but I know a Game Warden and a BLM officer who would gladly write this fella a ticket or two...

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publica ... mation.pdf

SECTION 31. Section 17-2-7.1 NMSA 1978 (being Laws 1993, Chapter 94, Section 1) is amended to read:

"17-2-7.1. INTERFERENCE PROHIBITED--CRIMINAL PENALTIES--CIVIL PENALTIES--REVOCATION OF LICENSE, CERTIFICATE OR PERMIT.--

A. It is unlawful for a person to commit interference with another person who is lawfully hunting, trapping or fishing in an area where hunting, trapping or fishing is permitted by a custodian of public property or an owner or lessee of private property.

B. A person who commits a:

(1) first offense of interference is guilty of a petty misdemeanor and shall be sentenced pursuant to the provisions of Section 31-19-1 NMSA 1978; and

(2) second or subsequent offense of interference is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be sentenced pursuant to the provisions of Section 31-19-1 NMSA 1978.

C. When a person who commits interference possesses a license, certificate or permit issued to [him] the person by the [state game commission] game and fish division of the energy, minerals and natural resources department, the license, certificate or permit shall be subject to revocation by the [commission] division pursuant to the provisions of Sections 17-1-14 and 17-3-34 NMSA 1978.

D. As used in this section, "interference" means:

(1) intentionally placing oneself in a location where a human presence may affect the behavior of a game animal, bird or fish or the feasibility of killing or taking a game animal, bird or fish with the intent of interfering with or harassing another person who is lawfully hunting, trapping or fishing;

(2) intentionally creating a visual, aural, olfactory or physical stimulus for the purpose of affecting the behavior of a game animal, bird or fish with the intent of interfering with or harassing another person who is lawfully hunting, trapping or fishing; or

(3) intentionally affecting the condition or altering the placement of personal property used for the purpose of killing or taking a game animal, bird or fish.

E. Nothing in this section shall be construed to include a farmer or rancher in pursuit of [his] normal farm or ranch operation or a law enforcement officer in pursuit of [his] official duties."
Sorry folks, park's closed...
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:21 pm

Correct jay. They can issue a non traffic citation or summons. Can't arrest on that misdemeanor if not witnessed
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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