Ethical Question?

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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:30 pm

i do wonder though...if somebody did move someone's decoys, would they not be guilty of the same offense? perhaps if the decoys had been left overnight, they would be considered abandoned? would the person who left the decoys overnight be guilty of littering? what if someone sets out their decoys, then goes back to the truck because they forgot something, or takes a walk upriver because it's slow, thereby leaving their decoys unattended for a spell, then comes back to find them "intentionally altered"? in true nm fashion, there's a sea of gray area...any lawyers up in this piece that care to chime in?
Sorry folks, park's closed...
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:59 pm

Have to prove they are abandoned but even then any officer would tag them into evidence for safe keeping.depends what type of altering you are thinking of because you could then be help liable from criminal damage to property .moving or taking them might make you liable for larceny.
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby willkess » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:15 pm

I just don't think law enforcement would care if you left your decoys out overnight on public land and they were gone in the morning. I'm not advocating stealing or breaking other peoples decoys but using them to claim a piece of public land is not right and people aren't going to respect that.

Law enforcement is too busy to care about this kind of stuff, so we have to police ourselves and first come first serve is the easiest policy to abide by.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby quackadikt » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:43 pm

Law enforcement is too busy to care about this kind of stuff, so we have to police ourselves and first come first serve is the easiest policy to abide by.


And decoys and/or permanent blinds don't make up for you not being there in person.
"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:36 pm

I have to disagree Wilkes.I know a lot of officers that hunt and would handle that. I would as well
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby jrabq » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:37 pm

quackadikt wrote:
And decoys and/or permanent blinds don't make up for you not being there in person.


Yep, really not that complicated.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby quackadikt » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:51 pm

Apparently it is for some JR. Guess we're just being sore sports, or some kind of crap like that.
"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:54 pm

Just pointing out the obvious . Look at the elements of hunter harassment and see if your tampering with decoys fits them . Who would be doing the illegal activity , not someone putting decoys out early.
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby KHerbst » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:07 pm

First rule of law.....it's not what we know its what we can prove! Hunter harrassment maybe?....Can't be proven or acted upon unless witnessed. "Why no officer I was the first one here in my airboat when these guys showed up and threatened me". Game over!
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:12 pm

Unless witnessed ? Negative that's where investigating comes in. First rule of law ??? whats your peace officer cert number ???




Quite ironic how the title for this thread is ethical question and you state how easy it would be to lie to an officer.
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Blackfoot Inc » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:15 am

WOW...we gots us some Johnnie Cochran's up in here. (O.J's attorney)

This thread has clearly pointed out how much emotion factors into our sport of choice. If your not passionate about something, then why do it.
These scenarios play out more often then one my think, some by accident, others are intentional. While both can become emotional it's the intentional ones that escalate. More then likely if someone goes to the trouble of setting out decoys the night before its because that location is popular, knowing that it's popular these individuals knowingly are 1)attempting to creating an advantage 2) likely expecting resistance, then finally 3) when others beat them at they're own game by setting up at noon fully expecting to see another group show up after them. You can see how this grows and can get more explosive. We all lose when this happens . Bad for the Sport...bad for Hunting.

I hunt from time to time with an APD officer and a Federal US Marshall and have been told to NEVER handle someone else's equipment, just a FYI. For those of you who hunt Big Game, if you ever drive up to a gate that you know for certain should not be locked or someone has locked you in a location, be sure to NOT cut the lock, rather cut the chain. And don't ask how I know this :mad:
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby STICKLER » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:29 pm

Guys, what it boils down to is this: Their is a small grey area when it comes to claiming a spot. I've heard of fist fight breaking out between hunters over a spot. A good duck hunter will get himself out of bed early and lose a ton of sleep to get at what he deserves. On the other hand, a guide will be a bit more ruthless b/c if he can't let his clients hunt, his family may not eat the next week but I really don't care. I've never considered making money off the sport I love so much. Some of you have a side job of call making, marketing and selling, but at least most of you are ethically sound.
When I was 7, my father was stationed at Kirtland AFB and many of our trips to Bernardo were at 12am. He wanted the best spot on the refuge and we got it most every time, and earned it because we were present!
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby KHerbst » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:01 pm

Back for more wrote:Unless witnessed ? Negative that's where investigating comes in. First rule of law ??? whats your peace officer cert number ???




Quite ironic how the title for this thread is ethical question and you state how easy it would be to lie to an officer.


Police officer cert number................dont need one. Maybe a higher education- a few months studying for the BAR Exam- some trial experience and the ability to project well in court. You watch too many CSI episodes.....who is going to "investigate" the mysteryous case of the "moved decoys".

1st, officers are unlikely to show before parties move on. 2nd, officers write thousands of tickets each year for actual crimes that are dismissed as procecutors cant make a credible case.....thus they stop writting tickets for simple cival disputes.

No crime....not worth the dime!

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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:22 pm

Your a lawyer ?
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby KHerbst » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:26 pm

Back for more wrote:Your a lawyer ?



Nope...........as stated!

Your a cop?

:)


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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:04 pm

I sure am


:hi:
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby KHerbst » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:32 pm

Great ....Deputy....Constable....State....City? Just where do you operate out of? You've made some pretty aggressive statements on the forum. So please educate us on your background....education....training....investigative course work.

Tell us what you would do if someone refused to move from one of your secured spots. You are a sworn LEO...please explain what authority you would evoke to write a citation. I would have to defer to your knowledge then, what would happen to the party that touched another persons property? :huh: Tampering?... Invasion of.....inhibiting.......interfering ?... Seriously not trying to pick a squabble. Just not sure LE has any grounds...grounds that would not be thrown out at the initial hearing?...

Help?

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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:51 pm

Neither do i want a squabble.just placing opinion on an opinion based sight.

First off I would just go to another spot. (not a one trick pony ).

Secondly I don't owe you an explanation of my credentials or place of duty.sworn yes.most know where I work already.
Seems you know the defense attorney shuffle though.

Third just about all charges you named make no sense for this topic.studied for bar but didn't pass ?makes sense.

Fourth , we both know..... Well i think you should know charges depend the totality of circumstances.
hunter harassment would pursue maybe larceny or criminal dam. To prop.

Again sir if I came off rude that's not my intention.

And also aggressive statements ? I can speak my mind. At least off duty
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby STICKLER » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:17 pm

Back for more wrote:First off I would just go to another spot.

Then you have no backbone! I come from old school training on waterfowl hunting since I was 7yrs old, back in the late 70's and will stand by what I was taught. The best waterfowlers, I've ever seen, would haul their butts out early to get to a good spot and not pull a lazy mans way of leaving his decoys out to claim the X so he can drink beer late and get some from an ugly GF before he sets out...
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:10 pm

No because im not an ignorant dipshit. I can kill birds anywhere.tell me your spot and I'll set up in it to test your backbone. Take a swing over it and watch if your not arrested .I understand standing up up for yours but like every one tells me , it's public land.
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby KHerbst » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:49 am

Back for More....

Seriously, congrats on rising so quickly in the ranks. Please PM me so I know where not to hunt.....your self professed greatness has impressed the impressionable.

Me not quite so much. Killing green in NM is not a task or test of ability. Any fool with time and a robo can kill limits......boring! Yet you post picks with marginal limits of brown ducks? Seems beneath such a master like yourself. Others on this forum are stone cold green head killa's. Been with DA on back to back to back hunts where he killed Grand Slams on 6 shots a day. Seen Blackfoot kill limit after limit with out a call, but with creative decoy placement scouting and timing.

Know of others who will hike a mile through crap to only shoot green. Advice, earn a few more legitimate stripes then come sell your unpopular goods here.

Oh and I am calling BS on your tone while off duty. You wear the colors and reflect the men and women who serve beside you 24-7! Your arrogance on the forum is a personality trait that will obviously manifest on duty and limit your LE opportunities. Quick advice.......walk tighter line.

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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:04 am

Ignorant ? You state how you have knowledge of law but didn't pass the bar ?


No im not a green head nut but can appreciate them. I hunt ducks not just green heads.

And the reason I have most people angry on here is because i say what I think. I don't coward down on my beliefs for popularity
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Nasty Boy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:05 am

Back for more wrote:I sure am


:hi:


Mr. Officer Miller. If you claim employment being in law enforcement here in New Mexico. Which you have stated. How is a officer like you have time to squeeze in Your Job duties to serve us, guiding your group which you make money off of(which you also stated in another thread) and by the way. Group hunting is illegal. But you still do it. Also make your personal trips out to duck hunt and even find time to set decoys out the night before. Plus. your on this website all hours of the each day replying with posts. (hope your not working on our tax dollars doing these leisure activites) :fingerpt:

People like you can careless about our sport of duck hunting. Just out to kill any bird and/or make money off it rather than improving what we have in our New Mexico Game and Fish system. Never know when our time is up and become bird watchers and not be able to harvest a bag limit. I personally think there should be laws and more clear rules against leaving out decoys and using spinners.......
Last edited by Nasty Boy on Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Nasty Boy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:09 am

:huh:
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:20 am

Just more talk.

You don't know when I work and can only guess.

Hunting in a group is illegal , since when ?lot of groups hunt.

And because I don't just shoot green heads I'm hurting the population ?negative that's why we have bag limits.which biologists come up with. Are you a biologist ? Maybe an almost lawyer ? Or maybe a concert MMA fighter haha
"When the tires hit the mud , it will right the wrongs"

Why do I shoot 3.5" shells for ducks and geese ? Because they don't make 4" yet
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