Ethical Question?

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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby frogskins01 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:43 pm

Back for more you may just like to kill any kind of duck and the only reason they shoot green heads is so the females can provide more ducks next year I mean dude your only supposed to kill drakes your a f***ing idiot dude seriously all you do is argue on here it's actually quite sad I think we should all pray for you
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:48 pm

All I do is argue . Isn't that what your doing ? Takes two to argue.





Done with this topic
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Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:56 pm

This is ridiculous. Guess what, I shot a mallard hen this morning, and I also shot one last week....you know why I did it? Cause it flew into my decoys, and I'm legally allowed to kill two if I want to. Last week I also shot four widgeons and a gadwall...why? Because they're ducks and it's duck season. Do the three wood ducks I shot on Thursday count because they have green heads, or are they off limits too? Don't worry all you holier-than-thou internet nerds, I plan on eating every last one of them. Am I less of a duck hunter than you because I don't shoot only mallard drakes? Apparently. 30 plus years on the river notwithstanding. Get off your damn high horses you internet snobs.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Back for more » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:27 pm

Amen jay .


Funny how IM suppose to be the horrible guide charging for hunts but a certain few here are practically the horn Hunters of the duck world on here.

I suppose if you were offered a once in a lifetime guided elk hunt on an elite ranch you would turn it down right ? Because of whoring a resource out.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby frogskins01 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:38 pm

I am commenting on this topic also I'm talking from a conservation point. Also I have posted like 5 things dude you guys just always argue about every single thing possible it's stupid
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby frogskins01 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:40 pm

Also I ain't no nerd bro I bet you have Facebook Twitter all that stupid stuff this is my only form of social media bro
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby frogskins01 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:54 pm

Point System
The point system was adopted by all states in the Central Flyway, except North Dakota, and most states in the Mississippi Flyway during the 1970’s and most of the 1980’s. It was designed to increase hunting opportunity, especially for those hunters who learned to identify ducks in flight, while providing protection to those species and sexes that needed extra protection. The point system daily bag limit was a big change from the conventional bag limit it replaced during this time period. It assigned point values to various species or sexes of ducks. During the 1970 duck hunting season, the first year that duck hunters in South Dakota used the point system, the point values were: 90 – hen mallard, wood duck, redhead, canvasback, hooded merganser, and black duck; 20 – drake mallard, hen pintail, and ring-neck duck; and 10 – all other ducks and mergansers. Under the point system the daily bag limit is reached when the point value of the last duck taken, when added to the sum of the point values of the other ducks already taken that day reaches or exceeds 100 points. For example, in 1970, a hunter could shoot 9 blue-winged teal (10 point duck) and then finish it with a hen mallard (90 point duck): 90 plus 90 = 180 points. Being the hen mallard was the last duck taken that day this constituted a legal bag. However, if this same hunter took the hen mallard first, then his duck hunting would be finished when the next duck was taken.
And therein is the problem that eventually caused the demise of the point system - something called reordering. State conservation officers as well as federal agents learned through experience that some hunters did in fact do a considerable amount of reordering. I worked as a conservation officer during the point system days and can recall doing compliance checks of individuals or groups of hunters. I’d lay out the 10 point ducks in a pile and then proceed to lay out the higher point ducks in other piles. In many cases the only way these hunters were legal was when all the lower point value ducks were shot first and the higher value ducks at the end. I always had to give them the benefit of doubt, unless I was able to observe each duck shot in the proper order – a very tough task. It was pretty easy for a hunter to reorder his bag. Many hunters did abide by the letter of the law but law enforcement officers generally took a dim view of the point system and this was a factor in the demise of the point system.
In summary, if there were no reordering, the point system would be a very good duck harvest strategy. It provides protection for those species or sexes of ducks needing protection and allows ample harvest opportunity on ducks that can stand higher harvest pressure. The final year the point system was in effect in South Dakota was in 1987. Point values in 1987 were: 100 – hen mallard; 70 – wood duck, redhead, hooded merganser; 35 – drake mallard, pintail, ring-neck duck, bufflehead, goldeneye, ruddy duck, and all other ducks not assigned a point value; 20 – all teal, scaup, gadwall, wigeon, shoveler, and common and red breasted merganser. The canvasback season was closed statewide in 1987. Shoot a hen mallard as your first duck in 1987 and you were done duck hunting for the day – if you were a law abiding duck hunter.
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Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:11 pm

And your point is? That I should base my daily bag on an antiquated system that was abandoned years ago, rather than the current regs? And while you may not have Facebook, you clearly have google, since you're only 23 and weren't even alive during the point systems heyday.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Nasty Boy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:59 pm

Mr. Clarkie. Why would you condemn this young individual. He seems to have an excellent idea what the sport is about and he is 23. I applaud guys like him. He is just looking out for his future of duck hunting. While you, it seems that 30+ years and nearly peaking where its getting hard for you to get out as much. If you want to bang heads with someone. Do it with me. Leave the kid alone. Educate me on your style of hunting. I guess the bitter cold grows weary on you up North. I understand you may not have many ducks in your area. Have you ever gave it thought possibly shooting a couple hens you claim can take a toll your location. Keep in mind. These ducks are smarter than you think. They remember an area they like. WE ARE THE WINTER GROUNDS for the ducks. You shoot a hen. Your killing your chances of more flights in the air coming to your spread each year.
I will tell you a story. I hunted with Dirt and Stickler back in the days. We encountered a school teacher in an area That shot over 200 plus HEN mallards and who else knows what. This was during the time of 2004 when we hit the highest season of ducks in any year. Well. This individual took it upon himself and got greedy. Of coarse he was an older man. His time was coming to an end with duck hunting. I am sure in his mind. Who cares. Well. This location depleted. Seems like how your area of location. Well. each year after that. I noticed not as many ducks. Quite frustrating. In some sense for you now. Long story short. Glad this individual is no longer around. Surprisingly what a change to this year. Still not where is should be. But I am glad there are many individual like Frogskin. Hope that continues to grow on the younger generation.
Last edited by Nasty Boy on Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:15 pm

I certainly didn't mean to chastise him, however, I do take exception to the ideal that you should only shoot mallard drakes. I don't wish to bang heads with anybody NB. I follow the regs to the tee, and am just as concerned with conservation as anybody on this forum. I too applaud his maturity, and therefore apologize for not acting my age. He is certainly more evolved than I was at that age. That being said, if a widgeon, a woodie, a canvasback, a pintail, a teal, a redhead, basically anything not a coot or a merganser sets it's wings on my spread, it's probably gonna get shot at...Provided I haven't yet exceeded any limitations set forth in the regs. Personally I like when I can get a good variety of ducks just as much as when I get a pile of green heads. If that somehow lessons my worth in the eyes of my fellow duck hunters....too bad, so sad.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby frogskins01 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:28 pm

Well thanks nasty and you jay I wasn't pointing out that we should use the point system I was just saying that we should be careful of what we shoot so the future generations have ducks to kill aswell and I'm not a green head fanatic I just was saying we should only kill drakes of any species if we can help it I guess I can thank my uncle for teaching me that kind of stuff I mean we used to get in trouble if we shot a hen on purpose but ya that's all I have to say
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby quackadikt » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:31 pm

Back for more wrote:I suppose if you were offered a once in a lifetime guided elk hunt on an elite ranch you would turn it down right ? Because of whoring a resource out.


If it's public land, yes. Private land is completely different. Same for ducks. Like I said, you want to build a place like Habitat Flats or even just buy a few fields to run hunts on, go right ahead. I envy the people that can. Charging for services on public land and taking away opportunities from the Avg Joe is what I have a problem with.

As for shooting hens, if it's legal then knock yourself out. They get a pass from me 99% of the time. I prefer to shoot drakes because their nicer to look at, make for better pictures, and dead hens can't lay eggs. Of course, dead drakes can't breed hens either soooo......
"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:32 pm

If I won the Valle Vidal lottery...I'd be all over that bad boy.


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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby STICKLER » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:03 pm

quackadikt wrote:
Back for more wrote:I suppose if you were offered a once in a lifetime guided elk hunt on an elite ranch you would turn it down right ? Because of whoring a resource out.


As for shooting hens, if it's legal then knock yourself out. They get a pass from me 99% of the time. I prefer to shoot drakes because their nicer to look at, make for better pictures, and dead hens can't lay eggs. Of course, dead drakes can't breed hens either soooo......

I couldn't agree more. If you hunt legally, then shoot all the hens you can within the law if that'what you choose to do. I too shoot mostly drakes. I've got two banders from hens that were both shot by mistake. I'm a drake man and probably get fewer limits due to it. Mallards are the only duck with a regulated hen limit which means the feds probably know what they are doing to preserve them. So hen shooting is discouraged.
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Ethical Question?

Postby frogskins01 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:13 pm

Ya but one drake can impregnate multiple hens during breeding season as opposed to a hen can only get pregnant once a season and ya I know it's legal but it's frowned upon like masturbating on an airplane thanks bin laden
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Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:52 am

Just to clarify my intent...my post was meant to convey my issues with the attitude that if I don't shoot only greenheads, then I'm somehow not as much as a duck hunter as some. I threw the example of the hens in there for emPHAsis. I too have pulled up on many a hen for the same reasons mentioned above. Except for a woodie hen I shot last year, I was on a mission to have a pair for the wall.....so she was going down. Peace and love, peace and love.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby frogskins01 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:14 am

Well ya I agree about the dudes who only go after green heads they are my least favorite but ya I shoot any drake that flys into my spread I don't think it's bad to shoot one or two hens I just think it's stupid when people just shoot anything that flys within range just so they can say they got their limit those type of people piss me off but ya no hard feelings
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Blackfoot Inc » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:14 am

For those that believe ducks are monogamist just Google: Duck Gang Rape.

Honestly I don't see a High Horse Attitude, instead I see hunters that have been through 3 Duck limits, point systems, and have a understanding of conservation with the future of our children in mind.
Breeding habitat should be more of a concern.

An understanding on how refuges have changed migration habits which is also limiting hunter opportunities in many regions of our country. IMHO, keeping our ducks out of Mexico is Win, Win!

Frogskin :beer:
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby frogskins01 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:38 pm

I know I went out to my normal spot a couple days ago and found a case of empty beer every where some dead crows lead shells dead ducks that people just left there mostly all of the habitats are filled will trash if only are tax dollars would go to habitats instead of drug addicts who get food stamps and also Medicare so they can get their methadone for free and sell their food stamps for dope we could actually have a lot of nice areas for waterfowl
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby quackadikt » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:12 pm

A "duck stamp" would be a good place to start...again. I guess here used to be a state stamp but G&F pulled it for some reason?
"A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby jayclarkie » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:50 am

i don't know specifically where the money came from, and frankly, i don't really care...but, g/f up here allocated 400K to revamp (remove russian olive/salt cedar, add wetlands/sloughs, put in feeder boxes, and udpate the parking area) of a once popular, but often neglected WMA on the san juan. i believe they tacked on the waterfowl improvements as part of a bigger grant that also had lots of fishing habitat improvements as well. additionally, we're currently working with DU to get a chunk of change donated, which g/f said they will match 3 to 1. hopefully, we'll get about 25K from corporate for an extra 100K in funding. the waterfowl improvements are being spearheaded by g/f biologist who, while not necessarily a duck hunter, recognized a need for better management and upkeep of our existing public hunting grounds. they broke ground end of summer, and if all goes well, it should be ready to hunt in a few seasons. so, the money's available, it's just convincing those who have the power to spend it the right way...which here in nm, can be an uphill battle.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby Nasty Boy » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:40 pm

.
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby KHerbst » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:04 pm

Nasty Boy wrote:
KHerbst wrote:
Know of others who will hike a mile through crap to only shoot green.

KLH


I want to meet this guy you talk about and tell him that's not crap man....... :beer:



:lol3: Look close when you shave this AM! Lol. Not crap just sticks like it. Congrats on the bander BTW. Any room left on that lanyard? :thumbsup:
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby KHerbst » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:21 pm

Not sure where I left off. If the later segments of this thread were based upon my comments re marginal limits posting pictures of brown ducks.

Background to support. Like I said, easy to kill limits of just any duck that drops in......boring!,,, Those of us who shoot our body weight-albeit more for some than others....ha ha! Beat u to it Blackfoot! Anyway, the skill and challenges evolved to shooting small bore o/u or out of a layout nothing past 15 yds......all green! Etc. For a guide to come on early in his posts claiming to crush all of us with his skill, is....well ignorant. Compound that with tailgate shots with marginal limits.

As for shooting hens, your choice. You are legally allowed.....do it. There is reason however why most experienced fowlers coast to coast......Let The Hens Pass.

Having said that, my 78 yr old dad. A retired senior F&G executive...w a PHD in Aquatic Bio is a hen shooting fool, :huh: ! Every time he opts to neglect restraint...I get a 20 minute lecture on waterfowl mortality and the true impact hunters have. I get it, but prefer green, so I choose restraint. Now if I only had the same control with Oreos! :lol3:
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Re: Ethical Question?

Postby mr drake » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:59 pm

Can't wait until camping season and someone is camped in the spot i want and leaves it there for a day or two!

It will all be mine ? Correct ?
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