Gun Control and the Second Amendment

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Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby Frank Lopez » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:39 am

870's post got me to thinking about this new rush to gun control by our political leaders. As always, one side (our side) complains that it is a knee jerk reaction to an issue. I don't believe so. I think that this is a prime example of "never let a good crisis go to waste." And gun crimes are a national crisis. The problem is that there is a general misunderstanding of the reasons for the Second Amendment that needs to be clarified. I realize that this is sort of preaching to the chior, but bear with me. It's a message that I think needs to get out.

The prevailing belief about the Second Amendment today is that is about an individual's right to own arms for protection and hunting. Sadly, these are byproducts and not the intention of the Amendment at all. It is unfortunate that so many people slept through high school American History. Perhaps a little refresher is in order.

In the early to mid 1770s, Britain was saddled with debt due to the recent French and Indian Wars. This debt, when objectively examined, was incurred defending the colonies from French intrusion. To be sure, protecting the colonies was in Britain's best interest. Nevertheless it was expensive. To pay this dept, Parliment came up with the idea of taxing the source, so to speak. Taxes aimed directly at the commerce of the colonies. Most people grumbled about these taxes, much as they do today, but were going to pay them anyway. But a group of high stakes (wealthy) men felt that they should be in control of their own destiny and resented that they had to pay Britain's bill for what they (the colonists) deemed Britain's duty. All they really asked for was a voice. They considered themselves Englishmen, now and forever.

Unfortunately, or fortunately as the case may be, English law did not allow for representation of colonies in Parliment. The Continentals were left with the standard methods of redress. They tried lobbying (Ben Franklin was in London for years prior to the Continental Congress trying to persuade Parliment to favorable legislation towards the colonies). They tried petitions. And they tried civil disobedience (the Boston Masacre, the Boston Tea Party, et. al.). All intended to get the attention of Parliment and gain representation. All pretty much unseccessful.

The British concluded that some more than "peaceful" methods were about to be used, so they put troops in place to quell any insurrections. (Rightly or wrongly, this conclusion by the British seems a bit reactionary. It is doubtful that even the most militant of these Continentals, for all their bravado, wanted a war with the world's superpower.) This only served to exacerbate the problem. As tensions mounted on both sides, the British commander in Boston learned of a store of arms and ammuntion in the nearby town of Concorde. It was decided that the best way to avoid conflict would be to confiscate those arms. But Boston was a hotbed of espionage on both sides, and the "Sons of Liberty" soon learned of the British plan. About the only thing they did not know was which route the Redcoats would be taking.

Early on the morning of April 18, 1775, several men stood on the shore of the Charles River watching for a signal from Boston's Old North Church. Once the route was ascertained, they would ride through the countryside warning the militia and calling them to arms.

Even the sleepiest of us will remember the rest.

Fast forward to 1790. A group of legislators to the newly elected Congress of the United States, were not satisfied with the Constitution as it existed. They remembered that it was not long before that they were deprived the equal rights of Englishmen by English law. This group, lead by future president James Madison, introduced 12 Amendments to the Constitution, 10 of which would be passed and become our Bill of Rights. If you look at these Amendments, the First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right of peaceable assembly and the right to petition the government to redress grievances. All of these rights were intricately woven to the years immediately preceeding that night in April 1775. Not so coincidently, the Second Amendment defined the right to bear arms. Its position in the Bill of Rights is carefully chosen. It tells us that peaceful means of redressing issues are always the first choice. Governments are instituted by the people to protect these rights. But, when governments become tyranical and ignore the voice of the people, the people have the right and duty to remove that government. The Second Amendment protects that right and provides the means to execute that civil duty.

These irrefutable facts are all born out in the supporting historical documents that surround our Constitution. Madison, Hamilton and Jay all wrote about the right to bear arms in the Federalist Papers even before the Bill of Rights was proposed. Justice Story, an associate justice to the Supreme Court explained it in his 1833 comentary on the US Constitution. Tench Cox eloquently addressed it in the Federal Gazette on June 18, 1789. Thomas Jefferson was a true champion of the Second Amendment and noted its importance in several letters of corrispondance to contemporaries. The list goes on.

There have actually been a number of instances of the invocation of this duty in American history, albeit on a relatively small scale. The "Battle of Athens, 1946" is a good example of the people taking back their government.

This is the true meaning of the Second Amendment. I think it is important that this is the message we get out to everyone. Our political system generally consists of 10% of the population on one side, 10% of the people on the other side, and 80% of the people that are undecided that do not want to offend anyone since they usually have little or no stake in the issue. The trick, politically, is to reach those 80% with your points. Informing them of the truth and pointing out the "gun control rhetoric" and explaining how, by subscribing to the wishes of the political powers that be and disarming the public in general will ultimately be the death of freedom. Our political system is one of checks and balances. My guns, our guns, are one of the main checks against tyranny.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby Moultrie » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:07 am

It's wild to me how misunderstood this is. Great post
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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby jeepman » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:24 am

Great post! You hit the nail on the head.
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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby gooseseeker » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:28 pm

Frank,
The History lesson is all well and good,but why is the law abiding citizen penalized for criminal activity? There's not one single new firearm law aimed at the criminal,are there any new laws that punish persons who have illegal guns? I only heard about laws that law abiding gun owners have to endure!
Is it true that Staten Island residents had to forego their right to own a handgun and can only buy shotgun shells by doing a background check?,if true what is the reason and what rights do we have to stop it,what can we do before its too late? I live in W.N.Y. and only 2 of our politicians that represent the area voted yes with one Senator changing his mind just before the vote.
N.Y.City needs to go and become its own little State,their views don't represent the majority of this state,yet due to its population rules with an ironfist. LAW AND ORDER is the only way to combat this criminal violence,and parents need to go to jail if they don't care what their children are up to,responsibility for your actions has gone the way of the dinosaurs and punishment needs to fit the crime,probation isn't the answer! Only a hard line on criminals will slow down this violence and games like Kindergarden Killer need to be banned,violence is not a game it's a reality!
One more thing,when a student assults a teacher,the teacher should have a right to defend him or herself,and the student goes to reformschool for the rest of his/her days, and that school should be run like a prision! The parents should go to jail also for deriliction of duty as a parent. My rant is done now because these common sense approches will never fly,so lets see what happens when all law abiding citizens have their firearms confiscated,just ask Australia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby Frank Lopez » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:58 pm

gooseseeker wrote:Frank,
The History lesson is all well and good,but why is the law abiding citizen penalized for criminal activity? There's not one single new firearm law aimed at the criminal,are there any new laws that punish persons who have illegal guns? I only heard about laws that law abiding gun owners have to endure!


Well, the Founding Fathers wanted the people to have the ability to "take back their government" if the need ever arose. That's the purpose of the Amendment. On the other side of the coin, tyranical governments have an inherent vested interest in a disarmed public. If you look at recent world history, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the rest did not become so oppressive to their constituants until they disarmed them. Something like a hundred million people, in the twentieth century alone, were killed because of gun control.

gooseseeker wrote: Is it true that Staten Island residents had to forego their right to own a handgun and can only buy shotgun shells by doing a background check?,if true what is the reason and what rights do we have to stop it,what can we do before its too late? I live in W.N.Y. and only 2 of our politicians that represent the area voted yes with one Senator changing his mind just before the vote.


I saw this and have been trying to research it. So far, all I can come up with is internet banter. I haven't been able to substantiate any of it.



Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby VaTailfeathers » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:56 am

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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby VaTailfeathers » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:05 am

Some historical images:
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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby VaTailfeathers » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:07 am

Historical Marker
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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby Slack Tide » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:58 am

Good one in yesterday's Newsday...
A guy outside a rally in Albany holding up a sign that says:

"how many rounds in the clips of your security staff Governor?"
"I've been left for dead before but I'll still fight on, don't wait up, leave the light on, I'll be home soon"
Chris Smither
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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby gooseseeker » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:18 pm

Hey Guys,
I know this is last minute but just heard of a gun rally in Buffalo tomorrow at noon in Niagara Square,then heading to the Statler Hotel.Please make it if possible and remember,STRENGTH IN NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Postby Benellipup » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:59 am

If you didnt see this article i posted in the last thread (in verginia we kicked arse) here is is... Dont let this gun control topic get cold! keep pushing for our rights and get this bill repealed, since it was put into place overnight behind our BACKS! good article.. get a chuckle out of it too.


This should be on the front page of every newspaper.

Charley Reese's Final column!
...
A very interesting column. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL.
Be sure to Read the Poem at the end..

Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel... He has been a journalist for 49 years. He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.

Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.

This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us every day. It's a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!

545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. ( The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.)

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?( John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. ) If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to. [The House has passed a budget but the Senate has not approved a budget in over three years. The President's proposed budgets have gotten almost unanimous rejections in the Senate in that time. ]

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan ..

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses. Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees... We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.
This might be funny if it weren't so true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

What in the heck happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'
I hope this goes around THE USA at least 545 times!!! YOU can help it get there!!!

GO AHEAD. . . BE AN AMERICAN!!!
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