Safe Act shot down in my county

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Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby 870 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:01 pm

I couldn’t be any more proud of our county legislators. We’ve been saying from day one of this horrible law imposed on our State. This isn’t a Republican/ Democratic, or conservative/liberal issue. This is an attack against our freedom and will bring all parties together. Hats off to you Jefferson County legislators, great job.
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Jeffer ... 25711.html
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Frank Lopez » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:20 pm

While I think this is a good thing, and I agree with it, and the other 50 or so counties that have voted in this direction, the question remains. Exactly what does this vote do? Last I checked, state law trumps county law.

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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby 870 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:40 pm

Well you’re right Frank about the whole State trumping the County thing. What it does do is, it sends a strong voice to Albany telling them they do not really represent the people of NYS. It tells them come election time they may be looking for a new job. Our only hope is in the court system at this point. Possibly the voice of the people will be heard then.
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Frank Lopez » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:49 pm

Well, it certainly is getting their attention. Herr Cuomo is still unimpressed, probably because the 6 or 8 counties that have not voted to send the state a message are probably enough to get him reelected and also carry the most seats in the legislature. I think the one thing these counties are doing is to solidify the opposition and make for a very strong court challange. I sincerely hope I'm right.

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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby 870 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:33 pm

So do I Frank, so do I... There’s no way the Governor will cave to pressure. If he does he will get shredded in the presidential primaries leading the 2016 election as a flip flopper, one who caves.
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Slack Tide » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:10 am

It's still an uphill battle 870 and here's why.....
I was speaking to a friend who lives outside of Albany who went to one of the Town Hall mtgs that you are talking about. It turns out that NY is made up of many many districts. The further downstate you go (more liberal) the more dense the population is and districts can be every few blocks, therefore we have hundreds. The further up you go, districts can be 75 miles square in order to be able to get the amount of people you need to create district. In other words, a few towns' votes in Westchester can wipe out your entire REGIONS' votes!
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby DukBum » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:29 am

Ononadaga Co passed shooting the bill down on Tuesday,It is going to be a long uphill strugle .Just remember all the elected officals that voted for this law when you vote :thumbsup:
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Slack Tide » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:20 am

DukBum wrote:Ononadaga Co passed shooting the bill down on Tuesday,It is going to be a long uphill strugle .Just remember all the elected officals that voted for this law when you vote :thumbsup:


I'm going to look now, but, does anyone have a list of who voted for it, state wide?
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby DukBum » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:09 am

Slack on the NYS web page they have a copy of the bill and how the Assambly and senate vote went
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Slack Tide » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:22 pm

DukBum wrote:Slack on the NYS web page they have a copy of the bill and how the Assambly and senate vote went


I get hazy when I go to that site, too hard to navigate.
If you know where it is exactly, please post it so we can all see how our "representatives" represented us......
I see that all 9 Republican reps voted for it??
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby DukBum » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:51 pm

Slack up on top of the NY forum there is a sticky with links already that has how they voted it is in 870 new gun law post up there :beer:
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Frank Lopez » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:51 pm

Slack Tide wrote:
DukBum wrote:Slack on the NYS web page they have a copy of the bill and how the Assambly and senate vote went


I get hazy when I go to that site, too hard to navigate.
If you know where it is exactly, please post it so we can all see how our "representatives" represented us......
I see that all 9 Republican reps voted for it??


Yes, and all but one LI senator voted in favor. The only one that didn't, was absent! The bottom line with this vote is that it was purely political and there WAS political capital exchanged. I watched the "debate" in the assembly floor (tape delayed, so it was two days after the thing was signed). To me, the unkindest cut was that of my own assemblyman, Losquadro! That SOB got up to the podium and said all the right things. The law is an infringement on the rights of honest citizens, it will cause unnecessary hardship, he quoted both the US Second Amendment, and emphaticlly quoted the NYS Civil Rights Law with respect to guns! He questioned the sponsor it this bill would have prevented anything like Sandy Hook, which the sponsor said it wouldn't (though he later changed his answer to "maybe"). Losquadro pointed out that he heimself is a pistol license holder and an avid trapshooter (he likes to bring up the latter when convenient, however I, nor anyone I've asked, has ever seen him at any of the local trap ranges or shoots.) Essentially, after this performance where he made the sponsor of the bill visibly uncomfortable, he voted in favor of it. His excuse, like that of all the suddenly opposing lawmakers, is that they didn't have a chance to read it. BS! The thing is only 36 pages long and is not written in legalese! In the first place, they should have been able to read it and digest it in less than an hour. In the second place, any lawmaker worth his salt would have put a stop to the hurried vote simply on the basis of not being able to know what they are voting on. Remember Pelosi's comment about Obamacare?

Losquadro will be giving up his seat within the next week, he just won election as Brookhaven Town Supt of Highways. The rumor is that he is going to run for retiring senator LaValle's seat in November and took the highway job because of its fund raising potential. If that comes to fruition, I will do whatever I can to see that he doesn't get elected. And I'm going to make sure he knows it. I'll sell off some of my guns and donate the money to hs opponant if I have to.

Frank
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Slack Tide » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:05 pm

Frank....
Did Owen Johnson vote yeah? Have I NOT sat next to him at the DU dinner time and time again?
Am I in a time warp?
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby 870 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:00 pm

Hey guys I hope I didn't give you the impression that I thought it was over WE WIN. Not in a long shot I understand we still have a long fight ahead of us. I was just saying I'm proud of our people up here that's all. If what you say is true Slack maybe you guys need to push away from the computer and knock on a few doors in the hood and swing some opinions :hi:
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Frank Lopez » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:49 pm

Slack,

Senator Owen Johnson retired. He did not seek reelection in the 2012 elections. The current senator for the NYS 4th senate district is Phil Boyle. He voted for the SAFE Act.

Frank
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Slack Tide » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:22 am

I can tell you know that the problem is that the rhetoric has swung from "voting against guns" to "
Voting FOR kids"....it's a BS thing to hide behind but it makes it VERY hard for those in disagreement with SAFE to get some traction, because every time you make a case against it, they will say "so you think what happened in CT was ok then?"

It's a very convenient, frustrating, circular argument that they've constructed.

"well Mr. Duck hunter man, I guess you don't care that your son gets shot up at school, but that doesn't mean that I have to sit around while some maniac with one of those automated assassin guns waltzes into school and starts shooting up the place! Come on girls! It's WAR!"
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby awspaniel » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:16 am

[
"well Mr. Duck hunter man, I guess you don't care that your son gets shot up at school, but that doesn't mean that I have to sit around while some maniac with one of those automated assassin guns waltzes into school and starts shooting up the place! Come on girls! It's WAR!"[/quote]

I find it amazing that some people agonize about the thread count of their sheets,worry deeply about the color of their shoes,but
are incapable of opening their minds to any reasonable,logical facts that contain the word guns. I guess I'm just a hillblly,'cuz
I can't understand liberal rationale.

Unfortunately,Slack,I think you nailed it.
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:05 am

Slack Tide wrote:I can tell you know that the problem is that the rhetoric has swung from "voting against guns" to "
Voting FOR kids"....it's a BS thing to hide behind but it makes it VERY hard for those in disagreement with SAFE to get some traction, because every time you make a case against it, they will say "so you think what happened in CT was ok then?"

It's a very convenient, frustrating, circular argument that they've constructed.

"well Mr. Duck hunter man, I guess you don't care that your son gets shot up at school, but that doesn't mean that I have to sit around while some maniac with one of those automated assassin guns waltzes into school and starts shooting up the place! Come on girls! It's WAR!"


Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. You are correct, they are working on emotion, not logic. And I've never seen an argument where logic could not out smart emotion!

Remember the one about the prostitute? Perfect example.

Frank
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:09 am

On a similar note, there was an article in Newsday this morning about the impending move off the Island by Northrop-Grumman. It seems that N-G did not tell the state of their plans in advance and that the state is upset that they didn't have the chance to disuade them! Maybe the N-G borad issued a "message of necessity"! How's that work for ya, Andy Boy!

Frank
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby awspaniel » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:20 am

Frank,logic is only good if they'll listen. It's been my experience that emotional people aren't inclined to have a face to face,
factual conversation. It's frustrating to deal with people who find immpossible to open even a small part of their mind.We're
dealing some people whose mind is set,and all the logic in the world is wasted on them.A sad comment on todays' society.
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:48 am

Some years ago the local power company that I worked for (LILCO) was having public relations issues. The board decided that all employees needed to attend classes to learn hwo to deal with the public. Most employees didn't deal directly with the public and felt the classes were a waste of time. Until we got into the classes. Basically, these classes, called "Customer Sensitivity" training taught us how to deal with and defuse an emotionally hostile confrontation. Believe me, it can be done and it isn't too difficult a skill to master.

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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Slack Tide » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:07 pm

awspaniel wrote:Frank,logic is only good if they'll listen. It's been my experience that emotional people aren't inclined to have a face to face,
factual conversation. It's frustrating to deal with people who find immpossible to open even a small part of their mind.We're
dealing some people whose mind is set,and all the logic in the world is wasted on them.A sad comment on todays' society.


That's dead on.
I will form the most articulate position for the argument and they will say "oh Paul.. that's silly..no one needs guns like that"
and it's over........
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:36 pm

Slack Tide wrote: "oh Paul.. that's silly..no one needs guns like that"


The answer: "Well, I understand how you feel, and on the surface, it would seem that you are correct. But history has taught us otherwise. From the ancient Greeks to the twentieth century Soviet Union. A very good understanding of the principal can be found in the historical documents surrounding the source. The writings of the Founders, both public and private, will reveal the thought process that went into the inclusion of the Second Amendment into the Bill of Rights. And, yes, that's what we are discussing, rights. Mine and yours. We are free to excercise them as we see fit. I do not object to your right to stage a political demonstration, though I may disagree. Why shold you object to me being armed?"
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Re: Safe Act shot down in my county

Postby awspaniel » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:18 pm

It was the word"needs" that reminded me of this.Coulter's on the money here.

Why Does Anyone Need to Read About Celebrities?
By Ann Coulter
2/27/2013

Having given up on trying to persuade Americans that taking guns away from law-abiding citizens will reduce the murder rate, Democrats have turned to their usual prohibitionary argument: "Why does anyone need (an assault weapon, a 30-round magazine, a semiautomatic, etc., etc.)?"

Phony conservative Joe Manchin, who won his U.S. Senate seat in West Virginia with an ad showing him shooting a gun, said, "I don't know anyone (who) needs 30 rounds in a clip."

CNN's Don Lemon, who does not fit the usual profile of the avid hunter and outdoorsman, demanded, "Who needs an assault rifle to go hunting?"

Fantasist Dan Rather said, "There is no need to have these high-powered assault weapons."

And prissy Brit Piers Morgan thought he'd hit on a real showstopper with, "I don't know why anyone needs an assault rifle." Of course, where he comes from, policemen carry wooden sticks.

Since when do Americans have to give the government an explanation for why they "need" something? If that's the test, I can think of a whole list of things I don't know why anyone needs.

I don't know why anyone needs to burn an American flag at a protest. The point could be made just as well verbally.

I don't know why anyone needs to read about the private lives of celebrities. Why can't we shut down the gossip rags?

I don't know why anyone needs to vote. One vote has never made a difference in any federal election.

I don't know why anyone needs to bicycle in a city.

I don't know why anyone needs to have anal sex at a bathhouse. I won't stop them, but I don't know why anyone needs to do that.

I don't know why anyone needs to go hiking in national parks, where they're constantly falling off cliffs, being buried in avalanches and getting lost -- all requiring taxpayer-funded rescue missions.
I don't know why Karen Finley needs to smear herself with chocolate while reading poems about "love." But not only do Democrats allow that, they made us pay for it through the National Endowment for the Arts.

In fact, I don't know why anyone needs to do any of the things that offend lots of people, especially when I have to pay for it. I don't mind paying for national monuments and the ballet, but if "need" is a legitimate argument, there's no end to the activities that can be banned, forget "not subsidized by Ann."

Democrats are willing to make gigantic exceptions to the "need" rule for things they happen to personally like. Their position is: "I don't know why anyone needs to hunt; on the other hand, I do see why your tax dollars should be used to subsidize partial-birth abortion, bicycle lanes and the ballet."

They'll say that no one died in my examples (except abortion) (and bicycling) (and bathhouses) (and national parks), but the victims of mass shootings weren't killed by gun owners. They were killed by crazy people.

How about keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people?

Liberals won't let us do that -- and yet they won't tell us why anyone needs to live on sidewalk grates, harass pedestrians and crap in his pants. Those are precious constitutional rights, straight from the pen of James Madison, and please stop asking questions.

"I don't see why anyone needs ..." is code for: "I don't do it, so let's ban it." The corollary is: "I enjoy this, so you have to subsidize it."

Environmentalists say: "I don't know why anyone needs to shower once a day -- my French friends and I take two showers per month. We think we smell fine."

That's the difference between a totalitarian and a normal person. Liberals are obsessed with controlling what other people do.

As Sen. Dianne Feinstein said this week, so-called "assault weapons" are a "personal pleasure" and "mothers and women" have to decide whether this personal pleasure "is more important than the general welfare."

The "general welfare" is every tyrant's excuse, going back to Robespierre and the guillotine. Free people are not in the habit of providing reasons why they "need" something simply because the government wants to ban it. That's true of anything -- but especially something the government is constitutionally prohibited from banning, like guns.

The question isn't whether we "need" guns. It's whether the government should have a monopoly on force.

In liberals' ideal world, no one will even know you don't have to wait 22 minutes for the police when someone breaks into your home, there are toilets that can get the job done on one flush, food tastes better with salt, and you can drive over 55 mph and get there faster.

Meanwhile, we're all required to subsidize their hobbies -- recycling, abortion, the "arts," bicycling, illegal alien workers, etc.

Liberals ought to think about acquiring a new hobby: leaving people alone.
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