Deer changes

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Deer changes

Postby Specklebelly » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:18 pm

I know this is a duck hunting forum but it is during the split so I feel all is game to discuss. You guys see this and what are your thoughts? I am torn as I do not ML hunt as much as rifle, however I can see this being an issue to guys that deer hunt more than I do. I am sure there is science there that says why this is needed, it just seems like a small limit for bucks. Thoughts?


Wildlife Department to open online public comment period for regulation changes Dec. 3

Starting Dec. 3, sportsmen have the opportunity to voice their thoughts online on a list of hunting and fishing related rule change proposals.

Most notable is a proposal to change the structure of the combined season deer harvest limit to include no more than two antlered deer, with only one antlered deer allowed during deer muzzleloader and gun seasons combined. Another proposal would prohibit transporting live bait from one body of water to another in the state.

"This public comment period is an important opportunity to comment on items that could lead to changes in our hunting and fishing regulations," said Nels Rodefeld, information and education chief for the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation. "We feel strongly that our constituents should have every chance to provide their comments, which is why we are providing an online comment form for those wanting to be heard on these specific subjects. We encourage you to provide your comments through wildlifedepartment.com anytime during the open comment period."

To view a complete listing of proposed rule changes or to complete an online comment form, log on to wildlifedepartment.com beginning Dec. 3. The online comment period will remain open until 4:30 p.m. on Jan. 11, 2013.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby okduckdude » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:25 pm

I personally don't care. I wouldn't be against it. I bow hunt mostly anyways and never hunt with a smoke pole mostly cause i think its stupid. However, I do rifle hunt. So basically one buck for bow and one for rifle would be just fine with me.


I don't see what a big fuss would be about, since they let crossbows be used by anyone. If people want to kill two bucks, pick up a crossbow and learn to use it.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby takem1010 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:40 am

I like it. I bow hunt 99% of the time. I really wish they would put the rifle season back to 9 days like it used to be. Killing a deer with a bow isnt that hard. Sit in a tree and put a few hours of work into it. Maybe buy some camo and some scent spray??? On another note I would love to see a rule in place about a deer having at least 2-3 points on one side. If people would give these young bucks a chance to grow we would have tons more mature bucks that might make it to 120-130 inches. If you are going to shoot a young buck that might have 4 points why not just shoot a doe? Its basically the same thing
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Re: Deer changes

Postby okduckdude » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:12 am

takem1010 wrote:I like it. I bow hunt 99% of the time. I really wish they would put the rifle season back to 9 days like it used to be. Killing a deer with a bow isnt that hard. Sit in a tree and put a few hours of work into it. Maybe buy some camo and some scent spray??? On another note I would love to see a rule in place about a deer having at least 2-3 points on one side. If people would give these young bucks a chance to grow we would have tons more mature bucks that might make it to 120-130 inches. If you are going to shoot a young buck that might have 4 points why not just shoot a doe? Its basically the same thing



I like the way you think! :thumbsup:
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Re: Deer changes

Postby Specklebelly » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:06 pm

okduckdude wrote:
takem1010 wrote:I like it. I bow hunt 99% of the time. I really wish they would put the rifle season back to 9 days like it used to be. Killing a deer with a bow isnt that hard. Sit in a tree and put a few hours of work into it. Maybe buy some camo and some scent spray??? On another note I would love to see a rule in place about a deer having at least 2-3 points on one side. If people would give these young bucks a chance to grow we would have tons more mature bucks that might make it to 120-130 inches. If you are going to shoot a young buck that might have 4 points why not just shoot a doe? Its basically the same thing



I like the way you think! :thumbsup:

OK, let me be devils advocate to you guys. What if they allowed only one buck for all three types of weapons, would you support it then?
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Re: Deer changes

Postby Sparks0812 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:29 pm

I wouldn't mind a point limit. I was lucky enough to get a shooter with my bow this year, however I wouldn't really endorse a one buck limit.... I think OK still has plenty of deer running around
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Deer changes

Postby rebelmdb69 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:57 pm

I would love and want a one buck limit.
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Deer changes

Postby Okie-quacker » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:15 pm

One or two bucks doesn't bother me one way or the other. I'd love to have a three point rule though.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby okduckdude » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:22 pm

Specklebelly wrote:
okduckdude wrote:
takem1010 wrote:I like it. I bow hunt 99% of the time. I really wish they would put the rifle season back to 9 days like it used to be. Killing a deer with a bow isnt that hard. Sit in a tree and put a few hours of work into it. Maybe buy some camo and some scent spray??? On another note I would love to see a rule in place about a deer having at least 2-3 points on one side. If people would give these young bucks a chance to grow we would have tons more mature bucks that might make it to 120-130 inches. If you are going to shoot a young buck that might have 4 points why not just shoot a doe? Its basically the same thing



I like the way you think! :thumbsup:

OK, let me be devils advocate to you guys. What if they allowed only one buck for all three types of weapons, would you support it then?




Yes. You will still get your buck no matter what method of killing you employed. Also bucks would grow bigger and potently we would have more of them. Also the buck to doe ratio would be great and it could lead to better genetics. I wouldn't mind a one buck limit with three does. If you want to shoot your buck with a bow great. If you want to with a gun rather it be a rifle or smoke pole, great do it. The way the department sets up the seasons rather it be gun or smoke pole is right around the time the bucks are entering the rut or in the rut. Thus, people who gun hunt generally have a better chance of seeing more bucks and killing a buck. I understand that in some area's bucks are less likely to be and you may not see a buck that meets the antler restrictions (if they are imposed) which if that happened why would you want to shoot it anyways?

If you are a meat hunter you would not be opposed to shooting a doe to a small buck? While you can have bragging rights about shooting a buck and being Mr. Mega Hunter, in my mind if you shoot a small buck you really have nothing to brag about. Old mature does are some of the hardest deer to kill in my opinion. Most of us want to shoot the biggest buck we can, so if we are out to do such a thing already an antler restriction wouldn't be such a bad thing. This is included with the antler restrictions.

So in your hypo I would support the one buck limit because I see it as a way to improve our overall deer herd. If I want meat I would just shoot does. I am a conservationist first, then a hunter. :hammer: :hammer:
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Re: Deer changes

Postby younggun6632 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:55 pm

I think there are a few major issues that will prevent the previously mentioned changes from taking places.

1. If you reduce the amount of bucks that can be harvested in a year it reduces the revenue from the sale of tags. (A primary source of funding for the ODWC). No director would ever willingly cut his own budget.
2. The state of Oklahoma needs to reduce its herd population in certain parts of the state. Whether doe or buck more deer need to shot. Roughly 3-4 years ago the state increased the bag limit on does in muzzleloader and rifle to 2 per season.

I would support an antler restriction being passed which would also reduce the buck harvest as much or more than limiting all hunters to 1 buck per year. Another viable solution to multiple problems (over populated herd, tag revenue, increased buck quality) would be to issue a 2nd buck tag only after a doe had been harvested. Example, hunter shots buck with a bow, but before he can purchase another tag or check another one in he must check in a doe.

As a final note when the Director of Wildlife for the state of Pennsylvania first introduced antler point restrictions he had death threats and was publicly hated by many hunters. Even though antler point restrictions has proven to increase buck quality and balance deer herds I know someone in Oklahoma would get pissed enough to say or do something stupid/illegal enough to make the Director think twice about implementing antler point restrictions.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby okduckdude » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:03 pm

I disagree with you. In Oklahoma you purchase a license and all tags come with it. We are not on a "tag" system of where you have to purchase individual tags. Therefore the revenue is on purchases of licenses.

Also with any change in law(s) or regulations you will always have someone that gets pissed and possibly a radical or two that prose threats to those who implicate the change.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby okduckdude » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:07 pm

By all tags i mean you get a rifle license you get to shoot a buck and i forget how many does. If you get a bow license you get to shoot two bucks and three does and so on.


If one buck becomes the limit the tag will be included with the license.

Actually revenue would go up for those who don't have lifetime licenses. This is because people who bow hunt would buy a license for bow and if they do not kill one with a bow they would buy one for a gun and so on.

However, if one buck limit was implicated i bet we would just go to a one license for all seasons kind of thing.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby Specklebelly » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:45 pm

younggun6632 wrote:I think there are a few major issues that will prevent the previously mentioned changes from taking places.

1. If you reduce the amount of bucks that can be harvested in a year it reduces the revenue from the sale of tags. (A primary source of funding for the ODWC). No director would ever willingly cut his own budget.
2. The state of Oklahoma needs to reduce its herd population in certain parts of the state. Whether doe or buck more deer need to shot. Roughly 3-4 years ago the state increased the bag limit on does in muzzleloader and rifle to 2 per season.

I would support an antler restriction being passed which would also reduce the buck harvest as much or more than limiting all hunters to 1 buck per year. Another viable solution to multiple problems (over populated herd, tag revenue, increased buck quality) would be to issue a 2nd buck tag only after a doe had been harvested. Example, hunter shots buck with a bow, but before he can purchase another tag or check another one in he must check in a doe.

As a final note when the Director of Wildlife for the state of Pennsylvania first introduced antler point restrictions he had death threats and was publicly hated by many hunters. Even though antler point restrictions has proven to increase buck quality and balance deer herds I know someone in Oklahoma would get pissed enough to say or do something stupid/illegal enough to make the Director think twice about implementing antler point restrictions.


You make some really good points, especially the revenue loss. The deer tags (for non-lifetime guys) would take a huge hit. I hunted with a guy this year that bought both a buck ML and MF tag. If he shot his buck during ML, he wouldn't have spent the coin for the second one. I am going to the meeting in OKC in January if I am in town. I think it will be interesting.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby younggun6632 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:12 pm

okduckdude wrote:I disagree with you. In Oklahoma you purchase a license and all tags come with it. We are not on a "tag" system of where you have to purchase individual tags. Therefore the revenue is on purchases of licenses.

Also with any change in law(s) or regulations you will always have someone that gets pissed and possibly a radical or two that prose threats to those who implicate the change.


Resident License Costs
(see Licenses & Permits for residency requirements)
License / Permit
Cost
Resident Annual Hunting
$25
Resident Combination Hunting/Fishing
$42
Resident Youth Hunting (valid for 16 & 17 years old only)
$5
Resident Youth Combination Hunting/Fishing (valid for 16 & 17 years old only)
$9
Resident Fiscal-Year Hunting (valid July 1 to June 30)
$32
Resident Fiscal-Year Combination Hunting/Fishing (valid July 1 to June 30)
$53
Resident Youth Fiscal-Year Hunting (valid for 16 & 17 years old only, valid July 1 to June 30)
$7
Resident Youth Fiscal-Year Combination Hunting/Fishing (valid for 16 & 17 years old only, valid July 1 to June 30)
$19
Resident Disability Hunting (see Special Licenses & Permits for details)
$10
Resident Deer Archery
$20
Resident Deer Primitive Firearms (antlered)
$20
Resident Deer Primitive Firearms (antlerless)
$20
Resident Deer Gun (antlered)
$20
Resident Deer Gun (antlerless)
$20
Resident Holiday Antlerless Deer Gun
$20
Resident Youth Deer Archery (under 18)
$10
Resident Youth Deer Primitive (antlered) (under 18)
$10
Resident Youth Deer Primitive (antlerless) (under 18)
$10
Resident Youth Deer Gun (antlered) (under 18)
$10
Resident Youth Deer Gun (antlerless) (under 18)
$10
Resident Youth Holiday Antlerless Deer Gun (under 18)
$10
Resident Elk
$51
Resident Antelope
$51
Resident Bear
$101
Turkey (spring)
$10
Turkey (fall)
$10
Fur License (Bobcat – Raccoon – River Otter – Gray/Red Fox)
$10
Resident Annual Trapping
$10
Oklahoma Waterfowl (waterfowl stamp)
$10
Federal Duck Stamp (at post office or duckstamp.com)
$15
Federal Harvest Information Program (HIP Permit) Free online
$3
Federal Sandhill Crane Permit
$3
Resident 5-Year Hunting
$88


In what circumstance can you purchase a license and get a tag with it? I've copied and pasted the costs of licenses AND tags from the regs. When you purchase an annual resident hunting only a license it's $25. Then if you want to hunt a buck in muzzleloader it's an extra $20 for a tag. If you don't shoot one then you have to purchase a rifle tag for an additional tag of $20 and so and so forth.

I hope everyone on here realizes that the ODWC isn't funded by tax dollars. Its funds come from the sale of licenses, tags, and taxes on firearms and ammo. NO DIRECTOR WILL EVER CUT HIS OWN BUDGET!!!!!!! If they sell less tags then the price of the tags will rise for everyone else.

Duckdude, you made the comment that there wil always be some crazies that will have a problem with changes and you are right; however, can you sit there and honest expect the Director to willing put himself in harms way for a rule change? If you thought your life and/or family would be threatened would you make the call?

Fun fact: fishing brings more revenue than hunting. So hunters are pretty much just the step child anyway.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby rebelmdb69 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:17 pm

Non Residents get it all in one.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby younggun6632 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:31 pm

My bad didn't know. Never been a non-resident in Oklahoma. But you still have to buy a license for each season. If we went to a single buck system less licenses would be sold.

Nonresident License Costs
(see Licenses & Permits for definition of nonresident)
License / Permit
Cost
Nonresident Annual Hunting (not valid for antelope, bear, deer or elk)
$142
Nonresident Fiscal-Year Hunting (not valid for antelope, bear, deer or elk)
$176
Nonresident 5-Day Hunting (not valid for antelope, bear, deer, elk or turkey)
$75
Nonresident Deer Archery
$280
Nonresident Deer Primitive Firearms
$280
Nonresident Deer Gun
$280
Nonresident Elk
$306
Nonresident Antelope
$306
Nonresident Bear
$506
Turkey (spring)
$10
Turkey (fall)
$10
Fur License (Bobcat – Raccoon – River Otter – Gray/Red Fox)
$51
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Re: Deer changes

Postby fishfurlife » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:33 pm

I support the rule change.

I would support going to 1 buck.

I would not support a point restriction at all.

You have to understand how they work before you put them to work. They have their applications and work great in those scenarios.

Oklahoma is fertile and we don't have problems getting deer started. Antler restrictions work best in areas that have poor soil quality and the deer take longer to grow bigger and more points.

We would be shooting ourselves in the foot with a point restriction because we don't have nutrition issues here at all. A point restriction would select the best genetics to be taken from the pool sooner than those with less quality genetics. There would be even more mature 6 points and fork horns running around. I see enough of those as it is. It would be flat frustrating to know that you couldn't even kill a mature buck that was just a fork or a 6 point. There are year and a half old deer in Oklahoma that are 8 points. They would be legal and it would be crazy to take them out of the gene pool because they hold the most potential.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby fishfurlife » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:35 pm

rebelmdb69 wrote:Non Residents get it all in one.


This is true. You get three tags when you buy a NR gun tag (1 antlered and two antlerless). Licsense is included. You get 6 archery tags when you buy a NR Archery tag (Up to 2 antlered deer). The catch for them is that they must by a tag for each season they hunt.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby okduckdude » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:02 pm

It is not a tag... Its a license to kill a buck and a doe. That is not a tag but a license. A tag is for a single animal. Look at western big game states, they are on a tag system. We in Oklahoma are not. That is what I'm trying to explain. We are on a license system. If we were on a tag system you would have to by a tag for every single deer you kill. Hence if you by a bow license for example you get two bucks and four does. If you buy a gun license its one buck and two doe and same with a smoke pole.You don't purchase tags but licenses that include multiple tags.



As far as the threats go, threats are made everyday to high ranking officials. Now would i tell my family to keep an eye out maybe install a security system and sleep with my 45 on my bedside table, ya I would. However generally people only make threats to sound like they have a big bark. Most people who do such things do it without warning and only after the fact do you find something like a note or whatever.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby fishfurlife » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:20 pm

okduckdude wrote:It is not a tag... Its a license to kill a buck and a doe. That is not a tag but a license. A tag is for a single animal. Look at western big game states, they are on a tag system. We in Oklahoma are not. That is what I'm trying to explain. We are on a license system. If we were on a tag system you would have to by a tag for every single deer you kill. Hence if you by a bow license for example you get two bucks and four does. If you buy a gun license its one buck and two doe and same with a smoke pole.You don't purchase tags but licenses that include multiple tags.


You say Tomato, I say Tomato.

It's all the same man. The western states make it clear that you are purchasing a tag and license as well. It's just combined in to one purchase. Same as NR tags/license here.

Residents do have to buy a tag for every animal they kill. If they don't have a lifetime. The change to the NR tags was not done until recently.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby okduckdude » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:34 pm

Does it really matter anyways.... Western big game taste better than deer any ole day.....


You can keep your deer! Go west young man go west!
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Re: Deer changes

Postby mojo1 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:44 pm

okduckdude wrote:Does it really matter anyways.... Western big game taste better than deer any ole day.....


You can keep your deer! Go west young man go west!


I just came from the west and thier big game hunting leaves a lot to be desired, we have it much better here!!!

And a whitetail is better tasting than anything I encountered out there.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby okduckdude » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:48 pm

mojo1 wrote:
okduckdude wrote:Does it really matter anyways.... Western big game taste better than deer any ole day.....


You can keep your deer! Go west young man go west!


I just came from the west and thier big game hunting leaves a lot to be desired, we have it much better here!!!

And a whitetail is better tasting than anything I encountered out there.



You must be on drugs if you think that...... Elk and antelope are the most delicious game animals around..... :hammer: :hammer:
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Re: Deer changes

Postby fishfurlife » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:51 pm

There is nothing better tasting than Elk in my book. I spend all the time I can hunting Muleys and Elk.
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Re: Deer changes

Postby takem1010 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:34 am

I would support the one buck a year. I still support the antler restriction. I very rarely if ever see a mature 4-6 point, maybe its this areas we hunt are different genetics but i just rarely ever see a mature scrub buck. However I do see a handful of cull bucks that I usually will fill a tag on, so that would be out the window with the one buck rule. If we were to keep the 2 buck rule I would like to see rifle season set up like Kansas has it in mid December. I understand the fact that they are trying to set the gun seasons as close to the rut as possible for better hunter success but IMO this is the cause of people shooting immature deer. Just because ole Billy Bob wants some horns for the front of his jeep he shoots a 1 1/2 year old 6 point, that who knows in 3 years was a very nice 150" trophy for someone who actually puts in the time. Now for kids shooting young deer, I don't have as much as problem because it gets them interested in the sport. My first deer was a 2 1/2 year old 10 point that nowadays I would let walk, but thats what got me started.
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