Biologist

A forum to discuss everything about Oklahoma duck hunting.

Moderators: okiequacker, dgraves

Biologist

Postby poledog » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:20 am

Is it legal for a OK Dept. of Wildlife biologist, to check your hunting or fishing license?
poledog
Newb
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:21 am


Re: Biologist

Postby LTMFH » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:54 am

Yes
Marathon Maniacs Member #9135
User avatar
LTMFH
hunter
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:34 am
Location: 26.2 Miles from Euphoria

Re: Biologist

Postby Specklebelly » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:45 pm

poledog wrote:Is it legal for a OK Dept. of Wildlife biologist, to check your hunting or fishing license?

Mine gets checked by one about five times a year. Ok with me.
I love my SP-10
User avatar
Specklebelly
hunter
 
Posts: 1411
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:01 pm
Location: Bolarus IX

Re: Biologist

Postby danieledwards12 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:19 am

they also have the authority to hold you until the law get gets there if need be.
danieledwards12
hunter
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:06 pm

Re: Biologist

Postby UrbanDuckMan » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:15 pm

I ALSO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CHECK YOUR LICENSES and IF I FIND A PROBLEM OR VIOLATION I CAN HOLD YOU TILL THE PROPER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL ARRIVES! It's called a CITIZEN ARREST and I am betting that is the ONLY " authority " that a mere STATE BIOLOGIST has ... nothing more and nothing less than what you or I have!

Most folks don't realize it but WE have in a lot of instances a lot MORE POWER than law enforcement officials. Most times that occurs on PRIVATE PROPERTY but it also extends to PUBLIC PROPERTY . Hell , if the 16 year old kid down the block is make'n a habit of BLOW'N DOWN THE THE RESIDENTIAL STREET out front of your house and you've notified the police and got ... " will we can't be everyplace all the time so I'm gonna put you on EXTREA PATROL " and you NEVER see a cop do'n just that ... you can FOLLOW THE KID and when he gets' out of his truck to go in Wally World for the loaf of bread his Momma sent him to the store for in the first place ... walk up ... look him in the eye and say ... YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT or YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR RECKLESS DRIVING ... add something like ... YOU ARE REQUIRED TO WAIT AS I HAVE or AM CALLING THE POLICE and THEY ARE ON THE WAY! If you have'nt already , call the police department and tell them that you have made a Citizens Arrest and send an officer. You are gonna get with a lot of questions and bull s*#t ... just be steady and stand your ground. Once the officer arrives relate what you saw in detail.... you may not be able to tell EXACTLY HOW FAST the kid was go'n so don't worry with that ... tell the officer you arrested the kid for EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT ... that vastly lowers the burden of proof in court as you are NOT an EXPERT WITNESS ... a cop could testify to actual speed but not one of us. All you have to do is convince the cop and judge later on that the kid was GO'N ONE MILE AN HOUR OVER THE SPEED LIMIT!

First thing i WOULD DO IS TRY AND GET A CELL PHONE PIC OF THE KID GET'N OUT OF THE TRUCK ...get his face so you an I.D. him later as he more than likely is gonna RUN! Just wait on the officer ... if the kid don't come back advise the officer that you are requestiong that he ... the cop ... fill out a SUMMONS as you will SIGN IT cause you don't have the time to wait around.

Next step is to make sure the officer turns in the ticket to MUNICIPAL COURT ... and once that is ascertained make an appointment with the City Attorney's Office in order to DISCUSS THE FILING OF THE CHARGE(S)! Now this will more than likely churn up a few more " obstacles " but stick to your guns as this is THEIR DUTY to us as citizens. Once the charges are filed a WARRANT will be issued and a notice will be sent to the address on the driver's license.

You very well may haver to appear in court to assist the City Attorney before a judge. Once there you tell the story in detail and answer questions that come your way. It actually is a LOT OF FUN and for once we get to take part in the actual process.

City's don't like it when we get this invloved ... it removes those that they control out of the equation and therefore they see it as an negative thing as it applies to thier POWER!

The same procedures take place whether the charges are FELONIES or MISDEMEANORS ... but there is something that the law allows us as " regular citizens " and " untrianed " or " non experts ". That is that we have a lot more lee way in the amount of force we can use to hold the offender for the law. You see our police officers are " HIGHLY TRAINED " or so we're told and they KNOW what the " limits to what constitutes " THE FORCE NECESSARY TO EFFECT THE ARREST ... we're we DON'T and we're not EXPECTED TO KNOW!

The latter is the " tricky " part of all this. In order to keep it simple I WOULD NOT ... CHASE ANYONE DOWN , I WOULD NOT STRIKE OR WRESTLE WITH ANYONE and for sure DO NOT PULL ... REGARDLESS of any CCW or STAND YOUR GROUND you THINK you may KNOW!

IF the offender we arrest will simply stand and wait as we " instruct " that is what we WANT! IF they run and we can I.D. them later off of a cell phone pic and LOCATE them off of a TAG NUMBER ... TAKE IT NO FURTHER!

And , don't be suprised how you will be TREATED BY YOUR POLICE DEPARTMENT and MUNICIPAL COURT OFFICIALS. I'd say pretty much expect it to be like YOUR DIRT!

Thing is ... when we do GET INVOLVED ... as plenty of COMMERCIALS and TELEVISED PLEADINGS from those same officials ... remember we are messing with THEIR BAILY WICK! We let those A$$H*&%$ in D.C. get to the point where they THINK WE WORK FOR THEM ... this is one way in which we can KEEP CLOSE CONTROLS or INVLOVEMENT in our local government!

AHHHHHMEN!
UrbanDuckMan
UrbanDuckMan
hunter
 
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Biologist

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:27 pm

UrbanDuckMan wrote:I ALSO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CHECK YOUR LICENSES and IF I FIND A PROBLEM OR VIOLATION I CAN HOLD YOU TILL THE PROPER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL ARRIVES! It's called a CITIZEN ARREST and I am betting that is the ONLY " authority " that a mere STATE BIOLOGIST has ... nothing more and nothing less than what you or I have!

So if I see someone speeding, with an open container of alcohol in their vehicle on the highway, I can pull them over and have probable cause to search their vehicle? Wow, I have really been missing out.
UrbanDuckMan wrote:Most folks don't realize it but WE have in a lot of instances a lot MORE POWER than law enforcement officials. Most times that occurs on PRIVATE PROPERTY but it also extends to PUBLIC PROPERTY . Hell , if the 16 year old kid down the block is make'n a habit of BLOW'N DOWN THE THE RESIDENTIAL STREET out front of your house and you've notified the police and got ... " will we can't be everyplace all the time so I'm gonna put you on EXTREA PATROL " and you NEVER see a cop do'n just that ... you can FOLLOW THE KID and when he gets' out of his truck to go in Wally World for the loaf of bread his Momma sent him to the store for in the first place ... walk up ... look him in the eye and say ... YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT or YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR RECKLESS DRIVING ... add something like ... YOU ARE REQUIRED TO WAIT AS I HAVE or AM CALLING THE POLICE and THEY ARE ON THE WAY!

Bad idea, and a great way to start a completely unnecessary confrontation. You don't just chase people down for traffic violations in plain clothes. They have no idea who you are and they could pull a weapon out. Unless I am mistaken, in some states it is even illegal for an officer in an unmarked vehicle to pull someone over for traffic law violations.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Biologist

Postby LongTom » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:08 am

UrbanDuckMan wrote:I ALSO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CHECK YOUR LICENSES and IF I FIND A PROBLEM OR VIOLATION I CAN HOLD YOU TILL THE PROPER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL ARRIVES! It's called a CITIZEN ARREST and I am betting that is the ONLY " authority " that a mere STATE BIOLOGIST has ... nothing more and nothing less than what you or I have!

Most folks don't realize it but WE have in a lot of instances a lot MORE POWER than law enforcement officials. Most times that occurs on PRIVATE PROPERTY but it also extends to PUBLIC PROPERTY . Hell , if the 16 year old kid down the block is make'n a habit of BLOW'N DOWN THE THE RESIDENTIAL STREET out front of your house and you've notified the police and got ... " will we can't be everyplace all the time so I'm gonna put you on EXTREA PATROL " and you NEVER see a cop do'n just that ... you can FOLLOW THE KID and when he gets' out of his truck to go in Wally World for the loaf of bread his Momma sent him to the store for in the first place ... walk up ... look him in the eye and say ... YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT or YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR RECKLESS DRIVING ... add something like ... YOU ARE REQUIRED TO WAIT AS I HAVE or AM CALLING THE POLICE and THEY ARE ON THE WAY! If you have'nt already , call the police department and tell them that you have made a Citizens Arrest and send an officer. You are gonna get with a lot of questions and bull s*#t ... just be steady and stand your ground. Once the officer arrives relate what you saw in detail.... you may not be able to tell EXACTLY HOW FAST the kid was go'n so don't worry with that ... tell the officer you arrested the kid for EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT ... that vastly lowers the burden of proof in court as you are NOT an EXPERT WITNESS ... a cop could testify to actual speed but not one of us. All you have to do is convince the cop and judge later on that the kid was GO'N ONE MILE AN HOUR OVER THE SPEED LIMIT!

First thing i WOULD DO IS TRY AND GET A CELL PHONE PIC OF THE KID GET'N OUT OF THE TRUCK ...get his face so you an I.D. him later as he more than likely is gonna RUN! Just wait on the officer ... if the kid don't come back advise the officer that you are requestiong that he ... the cop ... fill out a SUMMONS as you will SIGN IT cause you don't have the time to wait around.

Next step is to make sure the officer turns in the ticket to MUNICIPAL COURT ... and once that is ascertained make an appointment with the City Attorney's Office in order to DISCUSS THE FILING OF THE CHARGE(S)! Now this will more than likely churn up a few more " obstacles " but stick to your guns as this is THEIR DUTY to us as citizens. Once the charges are filed a WARRANT will be issued and a notice will be sent to the address on the driver's license.

You very well may haver to appear in court to assist the City Attorney before a judge. Once there you tell the story in detail and answer questions that come your way. It actually is a LOT OF FUN and for once we get to take part in the actual process.

City's don't like it when we get this invloved ... it removes those that they control out of the equation and therefore they see it as an negative thing as it applies to thier POWER!

The same procedures take place whether the charges are FELONIES or MISDEMEANORS ... but there is something that the law allows us as " regular citizens " and " untrianed " or " non experts ". That is that we have a lot more lee way in the amount of force we can use to hold the offender for the law. You see our police officers are " HIGHLY TRAINED " or so we're told and they KNOW what the " limits to what constitutes " THE FORCE NECESSARY TO EFFECT THE ARREST ... we're we DON'T and we're not EXPECTED TO KNOW!

The latter is the " tricky " part of all this. In order to keep it simple I WOULD NOT ... CHASE ANYONE DOWN , I WOULD NOT STRIKE OR WRESTLE WITH ANYONE and for sure DO NOT PULL ... REGARDLESS of any CCW or STAND YOUR GROUND you THINK you may KNOW!

IF the offender we arrest will simply stand and wait as we " instruct " that is what we WANT! IF they run and we can I.D. them later off of a cell phone pic and LOCATE them off of a TAG NUMBER ... TAKE IT NO FURTHER!

And , don't be suprised how you will be TREATED BY YOUR POLICE DEPARTMENT and MUNICIPAL COURT OFFICIALS. I'd say pretty much expect it to be like YOUR DIRT!

Thing is ... when we do GET INVOLVED ... as plenty of COMMERCIALS and TELEVISED PLEADINGS from those same officials ... remember we are messing with THEIR BAILY WICK! We let those A$$H*&%$ in D.C. get to the point where they THINK WE WORK FOR THEM ... this is one way in which we can KEEP CLOSE CONTROLS or INVLOVEMENT in our local government!

AHHHHHMEN!


And just how many times have you done this?
Someone as well versed as you should know better than to lend advice that could have large consenquinces.
User avatar
LongTom
hunter
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Biologist

Postby Jerkstring » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:45 pm

I checked the duties of Oklahoma wildlife biologists and no where does it say they are responsible for enforcing wildlife laws. But it does say they have powers of investigation regarding wildlife in certain areas and interacting with the public. I wouldn't have a problem showing my license or game to them especially if I was on a public area or controlled area where biologists are assigned. Now if the guy hunting nearby decides to come check my license or game bag we gonna have a problem.

Citizens arrest is possible. But like it was explained is complicated, time consuming, and possibly dangerous. You better have your ducks in a row or some kids daddy's lawyer is going to make you look like an idiot in a court. Just because your not an expert does not make you immune from probable cause and use of force.( civilly and criminally) George Zimmerman would probably like a mulligan on the decision he made.
Jerkstring
hunter
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:30 pm
Location: S.E. OKLAHOMA

Re: Biologist

Postby shoveler_shooter » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:32 pm

Jerkstring wrote:I checked the duties of Oklahoma wildlife biologists and no where does it say they are responsible for enforcing wildlife laws. But it does say they have powers of investigation regarding wildlife in certain areas and interacting with the public. I wouldn't have a problem showing my license or game to them especially if I was on a public area or controlled area where biologists are assigned. Now if the guy hunting nearby decides to come check my license or game bag we gonna have a problem.

Yep...If they were responsible for enforcing the laws, or expected to, they would be carrying a firearm, have gone through CLEET, etc etc.
On the last part, if someone tried to do that to me, or I saw them trying to do that to someone else, they would get laughed at and there's a good chance the "real" game warden would get called.
Jerkstring wrote: Citizens arrest is possible. But like it was explained is complicated, time consuming, and possibly dangerous. You better have your ducks in a row or some kids daddy's lawyer is going to make you look like an idiot in a court. Just because your not an expert does not make you immune from probable cause and use of force.( civilly and criminally) George Zimmerman would probably like a mulligan on the decision he made.

Not trying to act like the authority on this, but it seems to me that citizen's arrest should only be used during a serious emergency or for an appropriate situation on your own property (even then, usually a wiser decision to let the po po handle it).
UDM's "advice" is riddled with holes and there's a plethora of things wrong with that post. Someone who's more familiar with the laws than I am could probably spend a whole night pointing out every potential problem.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Biologist

Postby UrbanDuckMan » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:21 pm

There was a time when "help " ( the cops ) were MILES and HOURS or DAYS AWAY ... well whatta you know in a lot of places ... IT'S STILL THAT WAY! There was a time when it was viewed that it was OUR DUTY AS A CITIZEN to " enforce " the law when violations were observed. Course we was still RIDE'N HORSE and BUGGY'S and Matt Dillon was hoist'n a cold one down at the LongBranch with Miss Kitty ... but even that was not so long ago.

While now there are more cops and in the cities they are close and at our beck and call via phones we haung on our hips more or less like a SA Navy Colt! Thing is the cops now TAKE THIER TIME get'n to you ... unless the word " GUN " is inlcuded in the dispatch. Then we are told ... DO NOT FOLLOW THAT PERSON that you just saw RAPE YOUR NEIGHBORS WIFE out on her PATIO!

Some way we have GIVEN AWAY and are GIVING AWAY more and more of our RIGHTS! So we got NO ONE do'n thier DUTY as a CITIZEN and the cops take thier time get'n there when called and when they do get there it's ... WE WILL PUT YOU ON EXTRA PATROL! Wonder why the bad guys are not afraid of much of anything.

Now the cops are great at WRITE'N TICKETETS and they don't want any of us do'n it ... what's up with that. IF they were there when lil Johnny got his first turck and come BLAST'N DOWN THE STREET at over 60 or would REALLY SIT AND WAIT FOR HIM there would be no NEED for ME to do it for them. Hell, I could turn my back and ignore it BUT for the fact that I got two small Grandsons and Grandaughter that like to RIDE THIER BIKES down the said street! And I'll be damned if I'm gonna GIVE DAT NASCAR WANNABE the street!

Last time I did this was on a LIL JOHNNY! Called the cops to meet me in front of his house and we went up and his pappy came out ... told him what I had seen and was gonna FILE A COMPLAINT or carry out a CITIZENS ARREST ... lil Johnny ... " YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT " ... Officer do your duty and fill out the TICKET ... lil Johnny signed it and later on PLEAD GUILTY! No more problems with Lil Johnny play'n SPEED RACER down the street. COurse he won't wave at me and his Mommy looks at me like she would truly love to RUN OVER MY FAT ASS ... but I'm wear'n that as a bade of honor!

I made a LIVE'N CARRY'N A GUN for over 35 yrears ... since I retried I hardly picked my revlover up and only duck hunt and shoot turtles outta my water shed with a .22 cal rifle! All those years I could not get used to the fact that the people wnated the cops to DO EVERYTHING FOR THEM ... even when we did'nt see the perp doing it and they did.

Just because I ain't scared to follow someone to thier destination and call the cops and carry out a CITIZENS ARREST does'nt mean you can't be. I just feel a bit sorry for you being that way. No wonder we are lose'n our grip over everything that governs our own lives... right down to how much sodie pop we can have in a cup!

The Bilogist is NOT a part of the ENFORCEMENT BRANCH and has NOT been thru CLEET and therefore does not have a COMMISSION CARD as a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER in Oklahoma. The Biologist was acting as a CITIZEN and IF you were found in some sort of violation ... HE COULD ARREST YOU AS A CITIZEN! And NO ... you don't have to Co-operate and show him ANYTHING! Just make sure your not some place you don't have a right to be when you go down that road.
UrbanDuckMan
UrbanDuckMan
hunter
 
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Biologist

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:49 pm

UrbanDuckMan wrote:Just because I ain't scared to follow someone to thier destination and call the cops and carry out a CITIZENS ARREST does'nt mean you can't be. I just feel a bit sorry for you being that way. No wonder we are lose'n our grip over everything that governs our own lives... right down to how much sodie pop we can have in a cup!

Scared has nothing to do with it....it's about not getting into an easily avoidable legal mess over a minuscule crime which didn't warrant such a drastic response. Choose your battles wisely.

I noticed you altered the story about the 16 y/o kid. Confronting the parents at their house with an LEO is quite a bit different than following him to the store.
Not all 16 year olds are clueless and unarmed (I know I wasn't) so I wouldn't generalize too much. If they're old enough to drive legally they have the potential to be a formidable opponent, armed or unarmed. Like I said before the "following violator to walmart" method is not a good idea. If it was a hit and run or something to that effect, then sure, follow them and get their license plate #, then call the right people.
I do know that if no damages occurred (maybe even if they did, not sure about that) if you follow them because of a road rage situation, then get out, approach their vehicle in a hostile/threatening manner (unarmed or not), they can pull a gun on you and it is legal.
I don't agree with that and I think it's an over-extension of the stand your ground/castle doctrine, but that's the way it is. IMO the aggressor would have to be armed, or if not armed, make contact with your vehicle before the gun can be pulled on them.
I hate it, because there's been a couple times where people have gotten personal with me and almost caused a wreck, which made me want to follow them to their destination and confront them. In this day and age it isn't worth the trouble though. For the average Joe, losing your cool will result in drastic consequences...like I said before, you gotta choose your battles wisely.

I guess I kinda digressed from the main topic but it's pretty closely related.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Biologist

Postby Duck Whisperer » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:31 pm

Not trying to offend anyone, but I got a point that I feel should be put out there.

A "normal run of the mill guy" like me trys to make a citizens arrest IN NO WAY has the same clout, saftey concerns, backing from the police or judges, etc as an ex-cop. If I get involved in a he said - she said situation it's a 50/50 shot at best who the police and/or judge will back. Not to mention I've just POed some body I got no clue of their mental state who might just "stalk" me for the rest of my life.

If an ex-cop gets involved in the same situation....... well we KNOW it ain't gonna be a 50/50 situation, AND he's got the entire law enforcement community watching his back.

UDM has some valid points. Not saying I'd never attempt a citizen's arrest, but UDM, in this case/scenario you live in a totally different world then the rest of us. We don't have the same saftey net to back us.
Pro Staff to nothin'
Sponsored by nobody
I just do it.......Duckin' Crazy!

They say there is "a fine line between genious and insanity". That's the line I live on.
DW
User avatar
Duck Whisperer
hunter
 
Posts: 1647
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Tulsa OK

Re: Biologist

Postby shoveler_shooter » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Duck Whisperer wrote:Not trying to offend anyone, but I got a point that I feel should be put out there.

A "normal run of the mill guy" like me trys to make a citizens arrest IN NO WAY has the same clout, saftey concerns, backing from the police or judges, etc as an ex-cop. If I get involved in a he said - she said situation it's a 50/50 shot at best who the police and/or judge will back. Not to mention I've just POed some body I got no clue of their mental state who might just "stalk" me for the rest of my life.

If an ex-cop gets involved in the same situation....... well we KNOW it ain't gonna be a 50/50 situation, AND he's got the entire law enforcement community watching his back.

UDM has some valid points. Not saying I'd never attempt a citizen's arrest, but UDM, in this case/scenario you live in a totally different world then the rest of us. We don't have the same saftey net to back us.

Exactly. Kinda like Joe Biden or whoever that was saying "well, I've got no problem with retired policemen being allowed to carry a firearm". LEO's have been somewhat put on a pedestal in our society and sometimes they are given a little bit too much respect.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Biologist

Postby Jerkstring » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:30 pm

Now we got the cops bashed. Back to the biologist issue. I believe from reading the duties section that a biologist can check your license and bag for the purpose of investigation or statictics especially if you are on a Management area he is in charge of. It is not a matter of legal or illegal for him to do it but a matter of are you required to comply or not. I am in contact with our local wardens when I get permits to hog hunt so I'll ask them for sure.
Jerkstring
hunter
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:30 pm
Location: S.E. OKLAHOMA

Re: Biologist

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:24 pm

Jerkstring wrote:Now we got the cops bashed.

I blame DW. Bad influence. :yes:
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Biologist

Postby UrbanDuckMan » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:06 pm

How these things get some much read into them that is not there is always beyond me.

First of all, a State Bilogist on a Refuge that they have " jurisdiction over " for the purposes of gathering statistics and other information that may be applicable to some study or the sort is a lot different than what was described or maybe more importantly than what was not included. The " tone " of the post made it sound to me that a Bilogist was taking on the duties of a CERTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER ... i.e. ... GW! Each year come'n out of the Atchafalaya head'n into the Cut on our way back home from a morning of bust'n up BWT'S we always get " stopped " by a pair of Bilogists that only want to know HOW MANY YOU KILL ... don't even ask for our permits or licenses ... just enters the information in a book and waves us on. SAME THING IN OKLAHOMA ... unless I miss my guess. Next time qualify the situation a bit more one way or the other.

I in no way addressed the " STAND YOUR GROUND " or any other law passed that we DON'T NEED ... passed to make some legislature poser feel better and more apt to feel better about themselves and/or feelilng the NEED to get something passed with thier name on it!

I also disagree that Ex Cops get more of a backing in court than a " regular citizen " ... I think I noted that due to the absence of " EXTENSIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT TRANING " ... a regular citizen will in most cases get a lot more LEE WAY than an active , retired or ex cop for whatever reason. I know this to be the case for a fact and don't need any big time ill advised STUDY to prove it.

The point I wanted to come out of this is that we have allowed our " POWER " or " RIGHTS " as " ORDINARY CITIZENS to be eroded over the years. Slowly but surely important areas of our lives that SUPPOSEDLY we have dominion and RESPONSIBILITY OVER ... you know that old " HEY ... YOU WORK FOR US " thing ! Nope ... instead of us as regular citzens taking the lead in these matters we are now merely boot licks for those that LIKE THAT POWER we once had.

Bottom Line ... there is a BIG EDUCATIONAL HOLE ... one that we used to learn in school and life itself but no longer. Again, most people are not even aware that there is such a thing as a CITIZENS ARREST!

Next time or the first time you request action on the 16 year old newly minted Driver that is intent on making your street a part of a daily NASCAR RUN back and forth and you get the BS reply on why not much if anyting can be done ... more than likely in the form of ... I WILL PUT THIS AREA ON EXTRA PATROL ... ask the officer " HOW CAN I EFFECT A CITIZENS ARREST " see if you get a STRAIGHT ANSWER instead of some answer worthy of a WELL WORN POLITICIAN!

I for one have decided not to GIVE UP MY FREEDOMS ... the few I have left ... LAY'N DOWN... even if it means I get LAID OUT DO'N IT!
UrbanDuckMan
UrbanDuckMan
hunter
 
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Biologist

Postby shoveler_shooter » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:50 pm

UrbanDuckMan wrote:Next time or the first time you request action on the 16 year old newly minted Driver that is intent on making your street a part of a daily NASCAR RUN back and forth and you get the BS reply on why not much if anyting can be done ... more than likely in the form of ... I WILL PUT THIS AREA ON EXTRA PATROL ... ask the officer " HOW CAN I EFFECT A CITIZENS ARREST " see if you get a STRAIGHT ANSWER instead of some answer worthy of a WELL WORN POLITICIAN!

You answered this scenario before. Knock on their door, talk to the parents. If an officer is with you, that's even better. If that doesn't fix the problem, then you videotape them and do the citizen's arrest, notifying an LEO before you do it.
One step at a time.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with a lot of what you've said in this thread and there's been some good points in your posts.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Biologist

Postby LongTom » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:38 pm

Ok UDM, say you arrest the 16 year old speeder and the cops don't show up to assist you. What then? Are you going to walk away or will you load the boy up and haul his butt to the police deptment?
User avatar
LongTom
hunter
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Biologist

Postby Jerkstring » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:46 pm

No officer, let it go and try it another way. Just becareful following kids home. There is no telling what they are phoning home to daddy. A bike rider got cut off by a car full of girls who then flipped him off and threw soft drink out of the window at him. He followed them home after an excellerated speed chase intending to call the police. The girls jumped out screaming and dad shot him off his bike from the porch with a shotgun. He lived but was hurt bad and almost faced charges. Do it right if you do a Citizens Arrest.
Jerkstring
hunter
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:30 pm
Location: S.E. OKLAHOMA

Re: Biologist

Postby shoveler_shooter » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:42 pm

LongTom wrote:Are you going to walk away or will you load the boy up and haul his butt to the police deptment?

Whole nother set of problems there, kidnapping being one of them.
No officer, let it go and try it another way. Just becareful following kids home. There is no telling what they are phoning home to daddy. A bike rider got cut off by a car full of girls who then flipped him off and threw soft drink out of the window at him. He followed them home after an excellerated speed chase intending to call the police. The girls jumped out screaming and dad shot him off his bike from the porch with a shotgun. He lived but was hurt bad and almost faced charges. Do it right if you do a Citizens Arrest.

If that unfolded exactly as you described, that is totally messed up. The dad should've been charged, especially if he shot him outside of his own property unarmed. Sounds like either attempted 2nd or 3rd degree murder to me.
And...yes UDM, when I briefly talked about the stand your ground law, it was definitely on topic. You chase someone down, get out and approach their vehicle, they can shoot you and the stand your ground law justifies it.

It's screwed up because I think if someone acts like an ass behind the wheel, they shouldn't be able to hide in their vehicle and not be held accountable for their actions....which is why people act like an ass while driving in the first place. They know they can get away with it as long as the law doesn't see them. Not saying that you should be allowed to beat the $h1t out of them, but I think everyone should have the right to walk up to the butt and calmly give them a piece of their mind, without worrying about getting shot. Of course, there's always the crazies that would shoot you regardless, but at least they wouldn't be protected by the law.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Biologist

Postby UrbanDuckMan » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:20 pm

I'm gonna walk away and make haste down to the P.D. and trap the first supervisor I can scrounge up! I'm then going to fill out enough of a Complaint Form in order to FILE CHARGES in Municipal Court and get a warrant issued. Once that's done I'm sit'n on my kiester till COURT at which time I will fulfill my duties as a CITIZEN and show up and testify letting the Judge decided it all.

Why is everyone so caught up in CHASING DOWN the perp? With an address and decent physical description ... don't need a NAME as John Doe will do ... a warrant can be issued.

Citizens can " USE THE AMOUNT OF FORCE NECESSARY TO EFFECT THE ARREST and TO HOLD THE INDIVDUAL or DELIVER HIM/HER TO THE LOCAL SHERIFF OR P.O."!. Been that way for HUNDREDS OF YEARS and IT'S THE SAME " RULE " FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. I'm well into my 60's and in no shape to get into something I can't finish and that's MOST ANY situation other than gathering enough information to get a WARRANT ISSUED!

Now if I'm go'n into my local bank and coming out the door as I am about to go inside is some local punk wear'n a ski mask and tote'n a Gat .. I am NOT going to get up in his face ... even if I do have hold of my Governmet 1911 .45 cal. Semi Auto! I still ain't AFRAID to " tail " him ... at distance as far as I can " safely " and in order to at leats give the responding cops a good PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION and DIRECTION OF TRAVEL. Inevitabley they will enter a vehicle or a building and that information is unvaluable. NO ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT TAKING THIS A@#H$%*E into CUSTODY!

At least NEVER see something that could help and turn and go the other way without passing it along as quickly as possible.
UrbanDuckMan
UrbanDuckMan
hunter
 
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Biologist

Postby Jerkstring » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:38 am

The dad that shot him was charged but I don't recall the outcome. It was a hot topic discussed several years ago when I was involved with motorcycle rights group.
UDM I would never attempt a citizens arrest without an officer present and a John Doe warrant is not worth my time to persue. You stated in a previous comment that you would tell Lil John that you are under arrest for Exceeding the speed limit. What would be your probable cause for the ticket and what would be the evidence for conviction. You must have not issued many citztions for speeding in your 35 years and had to take them to court. Did you pace him or radar him if so what speed was he going. As a retired LEO you could probably get close but an average citizen won''t. A WAG won'y get you there. Your not the only retired cop on here and I see a lot of holes in your advice. It's away from biologists now so I'm done with this topic.
Jerkstring
hunter
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:30 pm
Location: S.E. OKLAHOMA

Re: Biologist

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:41 am

Jerkstring wrote:It's away from biologists now so I'm done with this topic.

Eh...it's the off season. The OK forum is normally pretty inactive this time of year so I'll welcome a debate or anything to talk about.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso


Return to Oklahoma Duck Hunting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests