OK carry permit course

A forum to discuss everything about Oklahoma duck hunting.

Moderators: okiequacker, dgraves

OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:41 pm

Just curious to see who all on here has gone through it. I took it today, didn't really learn a lot but did learn a couple things.
Apparently you can't shoot an unarmed person coming at you/about to hit you, unless you're old, a female, or disabled. Yeah that's great...guess if a huge guy comes at me, I'll be grabbing the nearest baseball bat or whatever's around, and hope my amateur boxing experience is sufficient... :yes: :fingerhead:
A gray area in my opinion, but we wanted to get through the class so I didn't try to debate.

At the very least, maybe UDM can tell a couple entertaining stories. :tongue:
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso


Re: OK carry permit course

Postby Specklebelly » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:39 pm

I have been meaning to sign up but have not yet. Hold old is old? Also; it's ok for women to defend themselves but men can't? Interesting and just doesn't seem right.

I agree we need UDM to give his thoughts.
I love my SP-10
User avatar
Specklebelly
hunter
 
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:01 pm
Location: Bolarus IX

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby sooner737 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:49 pm

2 police officers gave mine and they pretty much said the opposite. All depends on the DA
sooner737
hunter
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:27 pm
Location: duncan, ok

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:54 pm

Specklebelly wrote:I have been meaning to sign up but have not yet. Hold old is old? Also; it's ok for women to defend themselves but men can't? Interesting and just doesn't seem right.

Exactly. It's very vague...would be up to the interpretation of the judge/jury. I can't really remember if he was reading the OK constitution at that time, but his reasoning was that you have to use an "equal" amount of force...therefore, if a normal man attacked a woman, old person, or disabled person, it would be fair and equal for them to use their handgun on them....however, it would not be equal if I used my handgun on them.

Which I think is really dumb, because a fist fight with bare fists is NOT a freakin game. You get punched hard enough in the chest, throat, head (especially from someone who knows how to throw a punch properly), you will die.
If they're gonna expect people to follow that, hand to hand combat instruction needs to be added to the course.

Anyway, bottom line is if a male physically normal like myself shoots an unarmed man, unless my head is getting pounded into the ground like Zimmerman, it will not look good at all in court.
That said, I'm pretty confident with the hand to hand combat training I've had and would probably use that "method" in a situation like that, but I realize that if they're a lot bigger than me and trained, perhaps better trained, my skills ain't gonna cut it. :yes:
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:56 pm

sooner737 wrote:2 police officers gave mine and they pretty much said the opposite. All depends on the DA

Interesting. Yeah, this was supposedly the best instructor from this part of the state, and oversees other operations in the area, but I did have to question a few things that were said.
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby Griffdom » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:03 pm

I've had mine fora couple years now.I think it has more to do with ones ability to defend their self than gender, etc. For obvious reasons the average man can defend themselves against another man more effectively than the average woman. I have decided that I am not going to pull my pistol out unless I'm absolutely sure I'm legal to do so. Life's too short to be spending life in prison because I wanted to shoot someone wanting to fist fight. But, if I have to pull it out I'll likely be pulling the trigger.
Griffdom
hunter
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:22 am

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:10 pm

Griffdom wrote:Life's too short to be spending life in prison because I wanted to shoot someone wanting to fist fight.

See that's what I was saying.....a fist fight with a stranger is not a game....especially if they have the sufficient strength and have been trained how to throw a punch properly. If you haven't had any training on how to deflect/reduce the impact of punches, or there's a big size difference, a straight on blow to a vital area could kill you.
I used to be in amateur boxing, and if you put 2 people in the ring, one of them well trained, the other a complete novice, it can get pretty dangerous. Even with the protective gear.
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby okduckdude » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:12 pm

Embrace the gray areas.....
Arise, Kill, and Eat. Acts 10:13

I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me. Philp. 4:13

I apologize to those I have yet to offend. Wait just a little longer and I will get around to you too!!
User avatar
okduckdude
hunter
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:49 pm

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:14 pm

okduckdude wrote:Embrace the gray areas.....

:lol3: It's fun to argue about
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby okduckdude » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:20 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
okduckdude wrote:Embrace the gray areas.....

:lol3: It's fun to argue about



That's true.

That's what they told me my 1L year. A professor said "live in the gray areas because that's where you will live the rest of your life". Boy where they right lol. So continue on lol
Arise, Kill, and Eat. Acts 10:13

I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me. Philp. 4:13

I apologize to those I have yet to offend. Wait just a little longer and I will get around to you too!!
User avatar
okduckdude
hunter
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:49 pm

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby sooner737 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:23 pm

sooner737
hunter
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:27 pm
Location: duncan, ok

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby Griffdom » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:33 pm

By the way,glad to hear you got it.The more law abiding folks that have it the safer our state is in my opinion.
Griffdom
hunter
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:22 am

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:38 pm

Griffdom wrote:By the way,glad to hear you got it.The more law abiding folks that have it the safer our state is in my opinion.

Thanks...hopefully my application will get through quickly...won't be any flags to slow it down so I'm hoping it won't take 90 days or something...
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby mad7755 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:24 am

I have had mine for a few years now. Just remember that you have a right to defend yourself. Meet deadly force with deadly force. As long as you have not initiated a confrontation then you should be ok. Make My Day Law and Stand Your Ground Law are there to help as well.
mad7755
hunter
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:10 pm
Location: Southwest Ok

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby DDMF » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:48 pm

I took my class a little over a year ago and finally in July did the fingerprints and submitted the application. 61 days later I had my license in the mail so I assume they're not too backed up over at the OSBI.

Anyways, my instructor said as long as there was a threat to do bodily harm to you, you could legally defend yourself with a firearm. Now as someone said, the DA is going to play a big part in how you are treated after the fact if you defend yourself. I would think if someone was in a predicament where you felt threatened that pulling your weapon would probably be enough to end the ordeal, but in this day and age it's hard telling.
DDMF
hunter
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:03 pm
Location: Tulsa

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby Griffdom » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:53 pm

DDMF wrote:I took my class a little over a year ago and finally in July did the fingerprints and submitted the application. 61 days later I had my license in the mail so I assume they're not too backed up over at the OSBI.

Anyways, my instructor said as long as there was a threat to do bodily harm to you, you could legally defend yourself with a firearm. Now as someone said, the DA is going to play a big part in how you are treated after the fact if you defend yourself. I would think if someone was in a predicament where you felt threatened that pulling your weapon would probably be enough to end the ordeal, but in this day and age it's hard telling.


For those who don't have there permit, the litmus test is not whether one feels threatened, but whether someone fears they or someone in their immediate family could lose their life or incur serious bodily harm. DDMF I am sure that know this but wanted to inform those reading so they dont get the wrong idea.
Griffdom
hunter
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:22 am

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:49 pm

DDMF wrote:I took my class a little over a year ago and finally in July did the fingerprints and submitted the application. 61 days later I had my license in the mail so I assume they're not too backed up over at the OSBI.

That's good to hear. I think at one point the average turnaround time was 90+ days.
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby okbucksnducks » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:20 pm

My wife and I sent off our paperwork off a month and a half ago. Just waiting.

That equal force thing could make things iffy.

The thing I don't like is that there is no third party clause here, meaning you're only allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself, your spouse, a parent, a child, an employer, or an employee.
assateague wrote:Eff a pintail. When I kill one, I'm going to dance a jig over its carcass.
User avatar
okbucksnducks
hunter
 
Posts: 1115
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:43 am
Location: Ochelata, OK

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:25 pm

okbucksnducks wrote:My wife and I sent off our paperwork off a month and a half ago. Just waiting.

That equal force thing could make things iffy.

The thing I don't like is that there is no third party clause here, meaning you're only allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself, your spouse, a parent, a child, an employer, or an employee.

I agree. The OK self defense act seems to have very limited power. I think the reason...or A reason, they did that was to prevent someone from unknowingly shooting an undercover LEO. Permit holder sees someone being held at gunpoint, doesn't know the whole story to behind what's going on, bang. Woops.
My instructor did say that if there is a robbery in progress, gun pointed at employee, you could shoot them, but you're supposed to call 911 first.
Gonna have to read the entire self defense act again, to make sure I fully understand everything.
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby okbucksnducks » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:04 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
okbucksnducks wrote:My wife and I sent off our paperwork off a month and a half ago. Just waiting.

That equal force thing could make things iffy.

The thing I don't like is that there is no third party clause here, meaning you're only allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself, your spouse, a parent, a child, an employer, or an employee.

I agree. The OK self defense act seems to have very limited power. I think the reason...or A reason, they did that was to prevent someone from unknowingly shooting an undercover LEO. Permit holder sees someone being held at gunpoint, doesn't know the whole story to behind what's going on, bang. Woops.
My instructor did say that if there is a robbery in progress, gun pointed at employee, you could shoot them, but you're supposed to call 911 first.
Gonna have to read the entire self defense act again, to make sure I fully understand everything.


According to what my instructor taught from the SDA, in that situation, you could go down for murder if that person doesn't fall into any of those categories. We went through a lot of scenarios so that we would understand it.
assateague wrote:Eff a pintail. When I kill one, I'm going to dance a jig over its carcass.
User avatar
okbucksnducks
hunter
 
Posts: 1115
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:43 am
Location: Ochelata, OK

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby Duck Whisperer » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:39 pm

okbucksnducks wrote:
shoveler_shooter wrote:
okbucksnducks wrote:My wife and I sent off our paperwork off a month and a half ago. Just waiting.

That equal force thing could make things iffy.

The thing I don't like is that there is no third party clause here, meaning you're only allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself, your spouse, a parent, a child, an employer, or an employee.

I agree. The OK self defense act seems to have very limited power. I think the reason...or A reason, they did that was to prevent someone from unknowingly shooting an undercover LEO. Permit holder sees someone being held at gunpoint, doesn't know the whole story to behind what's going on, bang. Woops.
My instructor did say that if there is a robbery in progress, gun pointed at employee, you could shoot them, but you're supposed to call 911 first.
Gonna have to read the entire self defense act again, to make sure I fully understand everything.


According to what my instructor taught from the SDA, in that situation, you could go down for murder if that person doesn't fall into any of those categories. We went through a lot of scenarios so that we would understand it.



In WHICH situation?

Permit holder sees someone being held at gunpoint (by LEO).

or

if there is a robbery in progress, gun pointed at employee, you could shoot them, but you're supposed to call 911 first.
Pro Staff to nothin'
Sponsored by nobody
I just do it.......Duckin' Crazy!

They say there is "a fine line between genious and insanity". That's the line I live on.
DW
User avatar
Duck Whisperer
hunter
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Tulsa OK

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:41 pm

I think he meant the robbery situation. And I think he's right, but not 100% sure.
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby okbucksnducks » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:43 pm

Duck Whisperer wrote:
okbucksnducks wrote:
shoveler_shooter wrote:
okbucksnducks wrote:My wife and I sent off our paperwork off a month and a half ago. Just waiting.

That equal force thing could make things iffy.

The thing I don't like is that there is no third party clause here, meaning you're only allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself, your spouse, a parent, a child, an employer, or an employee.

I agree. The OK self defense act seems to have very limited power. I think the reason...or A reason, they did that was to prevent someone from unknowingly shooting an undercover LEO. Permit holder sees someone being held at gunpoint, doesn't know the whole story to behind what's going on, bang. Woops.
My instructor did say that if there is a robbery in progress, gun pointed at employee, you could shoot them, but you're supposed to call 911 first.
Gonna have to read the entire self defense act again, to make sure I fully understand everything.


According to what my instructor taught from the SDA, in that situation, you could go down for murder if that person doesn't fall into any of those categories. We went through a lot of scenarios so that we would understand it.



In WHICH situation?

Permit holder sees someone being held at gunpoint (by LEO).

or

if there is a robbery in progress, gun pointed at employee, you could shoot them, but you're supposed to call 911 first.


Both
assateague wrote:Eff a pintail. When I kill one, I'm going to dance a jig over its carcass.
User avatar
okbucksnducks
hunter
 
Posts: 1115
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:43 am
Location: Ochelata, OK

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby shoveler_shooter » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:12 pm

Just read the entire OK SDA. I don't see anything regarding deadly force other than the "physical or deadly force against intruder".
No idea where our instructors were getting the family/employee thing from, cuz it's not in there.
okbucksnducks, who was your instructor?
UmatillaJeff wrote:By his very nature this tends to be a modest man who is loved by woman, children and dogs and well though of in all social circles.
We will call him the 10ga man
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: OK carry permit course

Postby okbucksnducks » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:14 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:Just read the entire OK SDA. I don't see anything regarding deadly force other than the "physical or deadly force against intruder".
No idea where our instructors were getting the family/employee thing from, cuz it's not in there.
okbucksnducks, who was your instructor?


My instructor gave us a copy of where it says it. I'm not sure where it is. I'll have to call him up and ask.

My instructor was out of Nowata Firearms
assateague wrote:Eff a pintail. When I kill one, I'm going to dance a jig over its carcass.
User avatar
okbucksnducks
hunter
 
Posts: 1115
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:43 am
Location: Ochelata, OK

Next

Return to Oklahoma Duck Hunting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest