Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

A forum to discuss everything about Oklahoma duck hunting.

Moderators: okiequacker, dgraves

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby Yuchi1 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:42 pm

UrbanDuckMan wrote:Dem Tejans is TRESSPASS'N the INSTANT they set a foot 'crost the Red River! :yes:


Where's Alfalfa Bill Murray when you need him!

What's ironic is the Texans ransacked (the ones they didn't murder) my Cherokee ancestors (along with the Chickasaw & Choctaw that were there as well) out of NE Texas (Weatherford) after Mirabeau Lamar took office (he's the one that actually said:..."the only good injun is a dead one"...) and orchestrated the Texassun white trash stealing their farms and running them up north of the Red.

Now, they're wanting to come over here and hunt.

BTW, on COE controlled reservoirs, the land 50' out from the bank is public and land in lowland areas that's covered by their maximum pool easement is also public.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma


Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby cargodoyle » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:29 pm

Sounds like a lot of guys on here are ok with walking onto the river because of the federal clause, even if it's opening day of rifle season, and you know both sides of the river are off limits. Not to mention you cannot launch a boat, let alone float a boat right now.

Are you really going to piss off the farmers/land owners for some bread eaters? :no:

The lawyers are on here are technically right, but ethically wrong
Quartz Mountain DU Co-Chairmen
Eternal Outdoor Films
Zink Calls Z-Unit
“Above all else, cherish that most solemn pride which must be yours to be willing to lay so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.”
– Abraham Lincoln 1863
User avatar
cargodoyle
hunter
 
Posts: 742
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:17 pm
Location: SW OK

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:50 pm

cargodoyle wrote:Sounds like a lot of guys on here are ok with walking onto the river because of the federal clause, even if it's opening day of rifle season, and you know both sides of the river are off limits. Not to mention you cannot launch a boat, let alone float a boat right now.

Are you really going to piss off the farmers/land owners for some bread eaters? :no:

The lawyers are on here are technically right, but ethically wrong

No one said they were ok with it, but people seem to have forgotten that the "landowners" do not own the rivers and streams if navigable by boat. Slightly off topic, but I'd like to mention the Indian Tribes own what's under the surface of the land, not the landowner. Just because you own a piece of property doesn't mean it's exclusively yours and you can do whatever you feel like.

What do you mean "cannot launch a boat"? Obviously you didn't read the link and previous thread. That is also covered under Federal law. Even if it is only navigable by boat during the spring it is still public easement, including the shoreline to allow portaging of the boat. Martin v. Waddell, 41 U.S. 367 (1842). Montana v. United States, 450 U.S. 544 (1981).
"Sport fishing" and "duck hunting" is also specifically covered in those court decisions.

No one has said anywhere that people should do it (although I would if I was rich), people seem to have forgotten that the public does have a right to navigable rivers, despite states illegally creating their own laws.
IMO it's also just wrong for a landowner to be able to "own" a navigable river or stream. Ridiculous.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:56 pm

http://www.nationalrivers.org/2013%2010 ... 208x11.pdf

Again, there's the link that covers everything. Federal court decisions are cited at the footer of the pages.

Getting tired of people commenting without knowing the laws.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby okduckdude » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:03 pm

Now I'm not hearing anyone song kumb-by-ah yet...... START SINGING!!!!
Arise, Kill, and Eat. Acts 10:13

I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me. Philp. 4:13

I apologize to those I have yet to offend. Wait just a little longer and I will get around to you too!!
User avatar
okduckdude
hunter
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:49 pm

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby cargodoyle » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:34 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:http://www.nationalrivers.org/2013%2010%20NATIONAL%20handout%20on%208x11.pdf

Again, there's the link that covers everything. Federal court decisions are cited at the footer of the pages.

Getting tired of people commenting without knowing the laws.


I told you already you were right already,

cargodoyle wrote:The lawyers are on here are technically right, but ethically wrong


I don't know why you keep pleading your case...still a bad judgement call given the circumstances IMO.
Quartz Mountain DU Co-Chairmen
Eternal Outdoor Films
Zink Calls Z-Unit
“Above all else, cherish that most solemn pride which must be yours to be willing to lay so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.”
– Abraham Lincoln 1863
User avatar
cargodoyle
hunter
 
Posts: 742
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:17 pm
Location: SW OK

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:57 pm

cargodoyle wrote:I don't know why you keep pleading your case...still a bad judgement call given the circumstances IMO.

:huh: I'm not pleading anything, just repeating FACTS that morons keep trying to argue.

A couple weeks ago someone from OK posted on the HH section about an OK game warden making a judgement call near the Red River on a scenario like this. He didn't want to have anything to do with it, wouldn't take a firm position. Wonder why? Could it be that he knows about the conflicting state and federal laws? Hmm.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:08 pm

cargodoyle wrote:The lawyers are on here are technically right, but ethically wrong

Maybe, maybe not. Yeah, when they bought or inherited the land, according to the state they own the stream or river bed. But since the fur trade era, Federal law states that it is public easement.

However according to the OP, it sounds like most of these places wouldn't be considered navigable and/or don't have a public access point. In those cases, yes it is definitely ethically wrong.
But if there is a pubic access point and it falls under the term navigable, what about the landowners being ignorant of Federal law? If they went through the effort of looking up state law, why didn't they investigate it/research it fully? That part would be on them, and they would lose in court if challenged.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby sooner737 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:33 pm

shoveler_shooter wrote:
cargodoyle wrote:The lawyers are on here are technically right, but ethically wrong

Maybe, maybe not. Yeah, when they bought or inherited the land, according to the state they own the stream or river bed. But since the fur trade era, Federal law states that it is public easement.

However according to the OP, it sounds like most of these places wouldn't be considered navigable and/or don't have a public access point. In those cases, yes it is definitely ethically wrong.
But if there is a pubic access point and it falls under the term navigable, what about the landowners being ignorant of Federal law? If they went through the effort of looking up state law, why didn't they investigate it/research it fully? That part would be on them, and they would lose in court if challenged.

This is by no means a shot at you so don't take it that way but damn are you as tired of having to write all this again and again as I am of reading it? I applaud you. This horse has been beaten for weeks now lol. First the HH then here, then here again along with some tejas peoples.
sooner737
hunter
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:27 pm
Location: duncan, ok

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby shoveler_shooter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:37 pm

sooner737 wrote:
shoveler_shooter wrote:
cargodoyle wrote:The lawyers are on here are technically right, but ethically wrong

Maybe, maybe not. Yeah, when they bought or inherited the land, according to the state they own the stream or river bed. But since the fur trade era, Federal law states that it is public easement.

However according to the OP, it sounds like most of these places wouldn't be considered navigable and/or don't have a public access point. In those cases, yes it is definitely ethically wrong.
But if there is a pubic access point and it falls under the term navigable, what about the landowners being ignorant of Federal law? If they went through the effort of looking up state law, why didn't they investigate it/research it fully? That part would be on them, and they would lose in court if challenged.

This is by no means a shot at you so don't take it that way but damn are you as tired of having to write all this again and again as I am of reading it? I applaud you. This horse has been beaten for weeks now lol. First the HH then here, then here again along with some tejas peoples.

Lol, I am a very patient man
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby scovey42 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:16 am

We have obviously lost focus on what this post is truly about. It is about a group of guys that call themselves Red Dirt Fowlers and quite frequently travel to SW Oklahoma to waterfowl hunt and have been caught several times trespassing. That’s it – no more, no less.

We seem to have gotten off track debating whether or not waterways are public land or not. THAT’S NOT THE ISSUE. A group of guys that are from Texas trespassing in SW Oklahoma IS the issue.

We also seem to have lost focus and want to defend all inhabitants of one state; Texas and Oklahoma. Are all people from TX trespassers? Are all people from Oklahoma trespassers? Obviously, NO. However ALL people that trespass are TRESPASSERS (PERIOD). This group of guys happen to be from Texas. If they were from Oklahoma I’d say “String ‘em up” as well. I don’t care where they live.

Back to the waterways debate, it is obviously just that…a debate. If you are from TX you will more than likely interpret the laws pertaining to waterways differently than if you are from OK. Both sides can point to source documentation to support their argument. The only true answer would come from a judge and how he/she decides to interpret the law on that particular day. So back to the group of guys from TX that are trespassing. For the sake of debate, let’s take their “trespassing/not trespassing” time they were caught on the Red River and throw that out. They were also caught trespassing on a very good friend on mine’s wheat field; no waterway involved. That’s black and white – no debate. They were trespassing. THAT my waterfowl friends IS the issue.

So why would someone come into a chat room and bring up this issue of trespassing? Well, lets look at it this way. If I had information that a rash of burglaries were happening in my neighborhood I would (and I assume everyone on here would do the same) let everyone in my neighborhood know what was going on so they could be vigilant in protecting their house and watching out for everyone else in the neighborhood. That’s what the intent of this post was. Texas is a neighbor to Oklahoma and as neighbors we should watch out for each other. When one of us has information about illegal activity going on in the others backyard then for God’s sake let the other one know.

Have a blessed day and happy waterfowling!
scovey42
Newb
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:09 am

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby Erie » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:39 am

Nice words scovey
WWA member
NRA lifetime member
DU member
User avatar
Erie
hunter
 
Posts: 1578
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:20 am
Location: Gig Harbor

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby cargodoyle » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:50 pm

Yes, very well said Scott!
Quartz Mountain DU Co-Chairmen
Eternal Outdoor Films
Zink Calls Z-Unit
“Above all else, cherish that most solemn pride which must be yours to be willing to lay so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.”
– Abraham Lincoln 1863
User avatar
cargodoyle
hunter
 
Posts: 742
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:17 pm
Location: SW OK

Re: Tresspassing a new epidemic with Texans

Postby shoveler_shooter » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:16 pm

scovey42 wrote:We have obviously lost focus on what this post is truly about. It is about a group of guys that call themselves Red Dirt Fowlers and quite frequently travel to SW Oklahoma to waterfowl hunt and have been caught several times trespassing. That’s it – no more, no less.

Back to the waterways debate, it is obviously just that…a debate. If you are from TX you will more than likely interpret the laws pertaining to waterways differently than if you are from OK. Both sides can point to source documentation to support their argument. The only true answer would come from a judge and how he/she decides to interpret the law on that particular day. So back to the group of guys from TX that are trespassing. For the sake of debate, let’s take their “trespassing/not trespassing” time they were caught on the Red River and throw that out. They were also caught trespassing on a very good friend on mine’s wheat field; no waterway involved. That’s black and white – no debate. They were trespassing. THAT my waterfowl friends IS the issue.

Agree with the first part, but like I said - when incorrect info gets posted, it's gonna get corrected regardless of the main topic. If people wanna drag it out and try to argue about it, then so be it.

State law conflicts with Federal law. Supremacy Clause. Done.
Nothing to debate. The only documentation the pro-state side can point to is state law, which is overridden.
If taken to court and pursued to the full extent, state and/or landowner would lose.
Also, like I have mentioned multiple times before, average Joe isn't going to go through the trouble of that, which is why this illegal state law still exists.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
User avatar
shoveler_shooter
hunter
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Stillwater and Owasso

Previous

Return to Oklahoma Duck Hunting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FowlPwrcat and 1 guest