What if the mallard limit gets cut?

A great state with a number of waterfowl. This Pennsylvania duck hunting forum is a great place to discuss hunting practices from all over the state.

Moderators: PADUCKSTUFFER, don taylor

What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby don taylor » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:00 pm

Talk about the decline in the Atlantic flyway mallard has lead to the idea that the limit may get cut. While hunting pressure has little to do with population numbers, it's the one factor that can be controlled. Any feelings on a 3 bird or maybe a 2 birds limit? One hen? A 5 duck limit?
BIGGER WATER DECOYS

Chairman- The Allegheny Chapter of Delta Waterfowl.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4277478 ... 6859634909
User avatar
don taylor
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 7519
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Westmoreland County, Pa.


Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby erp10 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:10 pm

If that's what it takes I'm for a reduction on the limit. I want birds to be around in decent.numbers so I can pass the addiction on to my one year old son.
User avatar
erp10
hunter
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:54 am
Location: Central Pa

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby erp10 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:14 pm

Here is my only question though. Say you have a Guy that hunts 2-3 times a week. He doesn't pull limits but gets 2-3 mallards a hunt. That wont affect him at all. Then you got some Saturday guys that get the 4 mallard limit....will that keep him off the water?
User avatar
erp10
hunter
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:54 am
Location: Central Pa

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby mcclinj » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:53 pm

In the interest in putting some numbers behind the issue....I had trouble finding the PA data so I posted NY States

NY State 2006- 2010 Mallard Duck Data:

Breeding Pairs: 86,000

Mallard Harvest 91,000

Percentage of Nest Success < 0.28

For Those interested in the science behind setting / adjusting bag limits, I suggest reading the USF&WS Adaptive harvest managment Report: Here is a link to the 2012 Report....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... mQ&cad=rja

I had trouble formatting the data tables so see the link above. Here's a few excerpts

Eastern mallards are de ned as those breeding in southern Ontario and Quebec (WBPHS strata 51{54 and
56) and in the northeastern U.S. (AFBWS; Heusmann and Sauer 2000, see Figure 1). Estimates of population
size have varied from 0.75 to 1.1 million since 1990, with the majority of the population accounted for in the
northeastern U.S. (Table D.1, Figure 4). For 2012, the estimated breeding-population size of eastern mallards
was 0.838 million (SE = 0.061 million), including 0.613 million (SE = 0.046 million) from the northeastern
U.S. and 0.225 million (SE = 0.040 million) from the WBPHS. The reader is cautioned that these estimates
diff er from those reported in the USFWS annual waterfowl trend and status reports, which include composite
estimates based on additional WBPHS strata in eastern Canada and helicopter surveys conducted by the
Canadian Wildlife Service (CWS).
As part of an ongoing reevaluation of all components of the eastern mallard AHM decision framework (i.e.,
double-loop learning), the Atlantic Flyway Council and the USFWS have determined that the models used
to predict survival and recruitment have over-predicted population change in 5 of the last 6 years. As a
result, members of the HMWG in collaboration with the Atlantic Flyway found it necessary to revise the
eastern mallard population models by considering more contemporary survival and recruitment information
and revised hypotheses about the key factors a ecting eastern mallard population dynamics. Recognizing
that the development of a fully revised AHM protocol will likely take several years to complete, the Atlantic
Flyway Council and the USFWS have approved a revised, provisional model set to inform eastern mallard
harvest regulatory decisions until all of the updates to the eastern mallard AHM protocol are completed.
Details concerning the revised set of population models for eastern mallards are provided in Appendix D.
The set consists of four alternatives, formed by the combination of two reproductive hypotheses (strongly
vs. weakly density dependent) and two survival hypotheses (additive vs. compensatory hunting mortality).
Model weights for the updated model set were computed with a retrospective assessment of relative model
performance based on the most reliable harvest rate information available from 2002 through 2011. Up-
dated model weights calculated with the revised model set suggest support for the weakly density-dependent
reproductive hypothesis 68% and the additive harvest mortality hypothesis 70% (Figure 5).

For eastern and western mallards, there is no NAWMP goal or other established target for desired population
size. Accordingly, the management objective for eastern and western mallards is simply to maximize long-term
cumulative (i.e., sustainable) harvest. Additionally for western mallards, maximum long-term cumulative
harvest is subject to a constraint intended to prevent extreme changes in regulations associated with relatively
small changes in population sizes.

-John
mcclinj
hunter
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby tsaylor1979 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:01 pm

Personally I would be ok with that. I wish we had more ducks. Maybe it would help. Keep the hens to one a day would help a bit.
tsaylor1979
hunter
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:01 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby don novicki » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:29 pm

If you live in the NW Zone you probably could care less with the crappy dates we have. I haven't killed enough puddlers in the last two seasons to really care if they cut the bag limit or not...........
don novicki
hunter
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:16 am

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby pawebfoot » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:13 pm

I would be up for a reduction if we would get a later ending date,such as end of January instead of the middle
pawebfoot
hunter
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:47 pm
Location: swpa

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby Spunky » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:59 am

Won't have any effect on the ducks that migrate through PA.

The migration pattern of the large ducks ,mallards, are a changing. The last 5-7 years in the NW zone there hasn't been a major migration of mallards. The birds that once came through are now staying north of us due to changing weather patterns and farming practices. When you read posts from hunters in Onatario and the ducks are still around at the end of thier season with open water and unharvested crops that tells me that the birds won't be coming down any more.

It's just not the Atlantic flyway. The Mississippi and central flyway are experiencing the same thing. The birds are stay further north and not wintering in thier usual spots.

Ask the guys on Erie how the bluebills were this year. They raised the limit yet the birds never came down. Changing conditions north of Erie has kept the birds further north with no reason for the birds to migrate.

Here's a post from another site and check the date with the guy's picture of the birds in his garage, http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=928653 That should be us not some guy in Ontario in December.
Spunky
hunter
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: PA

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby don novicki » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:12 am

Most Presque Isle reports were pretty bad. I know a number of hardcore guys that didn't do as well as they hoped they would. For the life of me I can't figure out why they opened P.I. in Oct.. I hope it wasn't to placate few of the older guys that don't like to hunt in really cold weather , but that seems to be what happened. Beach 11 is the place to be late season at P.I. but there was a decided lack of birds even at the very end........
don novicki
hunter
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:16 am

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby Wobbling Wings Waterfowling » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:36 am

You know, ive been saying this for a few yrs now. With the amount of ducks that are around they should definitely consider lowering the limits. I have never killed 6 ducks in one day. That's pretty sad considering I hunt fairly hard. If that's what is going to help the population by reducing to a 2 mallard limit, only one consisting of a hen... then I am down for it. I want to see more ducks. It will take some time but it could be worth it in the end. Since I am on the younger side of life (18) I have a lot to look out for and I would definitely like to see more ducks in years to come. Do I think it will happen here in PA? Sadly, no. I think PA will always be like this if not worse in the future.
Wobbling Wings Waterfowling
hunter
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: S.E. PA

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby don novicki » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:43 am

I think if we want to save the mallard they should cut the bag limit in the NW Zone only. Obviously all of the mallards fly thru Western Pa. so the first place to make changes is in the NW "slaughter" zone. Goes in keeping with everything else in this crappy zone........ :thumbsup:
don novicki
hunter
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:16 am

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby smkndux » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:05 pm

When I was young, we had a point system for different species of ducks. If you shot a Mallard hen, you were basically done. I believe it accounted for 85% of your point total.

I can also remember 2 Mallards, only 1 could be a hen. I was raised to not shoot suzies, and still today try not to. I was shocked when they raised the limit to 2 hen Mallards. Kinda goes against the practices I was taught.

We have come a long way with liberal limits. Personally, I think cutting back would not be so bad.
sent from my Styrofoam Cup with string attatched.
User avatar
smkndux
hunter
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:50 pm
Location: Conneautville,Pa.

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby Boatman » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:25 pm

I have to agree with you guys,less mallards around. They did show up about a week ago in my area,big piles of ducks of all kinds. We finally got the big freeze. Since the birds don't make it down,least the last 2 years,that is bad news since waterfowl tend to return to same area year after year. So I believe we hunt,for the most part,local birds. And it is simple to see if you pressure them they are gone. I believe we can limit ourselves and don't shoot the hens period. I have had one of my bests years this year,I have been trying to not shoot hens for the last 10 years,And I believe it's working.
There are still things worth dying for and 1 of those things is freedom.

I love Geese

Genesis 27:3 Now then, get your weapons, quiver and bow, go out in the fields and hunt some wild game for me.
User avatar
Boatman
hunter
 
Posts: 1131
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 4:10 pm
Location: Atlantic

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby don taylor » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:34 am

I've read the head biologist for the state of Louisiana here and other's elsewhere. From what they say, shooting only drakes has no measurable impact on the duck population. What we kill is a drop in the bucket compared to what coons, skunks, coyotes, housecats and other predators take from nests every year. I think our issue in Pa is limited habitat for nesting. Give them a safe place to nest, you've just increased their odds tremendously.
BIGGER WATER DECOYS

Chairman- The Allegheny Chapter of Delta Waterfowl.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4277478 ... 6859634909
User avatar
don taylor
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 7519
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Westmoreland County, Pa.

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby OmegaRed » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:43 am

don taylor wrote:I've read the head biologist for the state of Louisiana here and other's elsewhere. From what they say, shooting only drakes has no measurable impact on the duck population. What we kill is a drop in the bucket compared to what coons, skunks, coyotes, housecats and other predators take from nests every year. I think our issue in Pa is limited habitat for nesting. Give them a safe place to nest, you've just increased their odds tremendously.



I agree
If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same.
-RK
User avatar
OmegaRed
Fabio
 
Posts: 2537
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:38 am
Location: OHIO

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby BrentwoodDucker » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:10 am

One of the main reasons for the Mallard migration is that you can look no farther than the Long Point duck club 23 miles across the lake from Erie...They start baiting the minute the temps reach around 35....They bring corn in by the BARGE LOADS! This holds a ton of malllards from flying south..Not all of em, but a whole bunch of em.

On another note. Myself and a few guys that I hunt with on a regular basis have often talked about a 3-4 bird any species limit.
If anything, it would help with the sky busters I would think.
BrentwoodDucker
hunter
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:57 am

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby Boatman » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:16 pm

don taylor wrote:I've read the head biologist for the state of Louisiana here and other's elsewhere. From what they say, shooting only drakes has no measurable impact on the duck population. What we kill is a drop in the bucket compared to what coons, skunks, coyotes, housecats and other predators take from nests every year. I think our issue in Pa is limited habitat for nesting. Give them a safe place to nest, you've just increased their odds tremendously.


Then why are we limited to only 2 hens.Another reason to flood the nesting area with hens. Save a hen kill a predator.
There are still things worth dying for and 1 of those things is freedom.

I love Geese

Genesis 27:3 Now then, get your weapons, quiver and bow, go out in the fields and hunt some wild game for me.
User avatar
Boatman
hunter
 
Posts: 1131
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 4:10 pm
Location: Atlantic

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby don taylor » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:14 am

Because it 'feels right'.

We're not limited to hens on any species, except mallards. Geese, swans, we don't discriminate between the sexes.

Predator control is the answer for the PPR and other breeding areas. Around here, i think that we need to focus on habitat. We have miles of rivers, tons of water, but our rivers flood and are lined with development. Our lakes and ponds are lined with playgrounds and cut grass. Look at how the geese have taken advantage of it, becoming almost a nuisance. Why don't ducks thrive like geese?

This is why I started the Delta Chapter, to put suitable nesting structures around our area to help the ducks.

If we don't get more people involved though, this will be a short lived venture for us. We're trying, but we don't have enough people to make it successful. Everybody wants to hunt them, but not many want to actually help increase our numbers. It's pretty disheartening.
BIGGER WATER DECOYS

Chairman- The Allegheny Chapter of Delta Waterfowl.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4277478 ... 6859634909
User avatar
don taylor
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 7519
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Westmoreland County, Pa.

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby 001kds » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:34 am

BrentwoodDucker wrote:One of the main reasons for the Mallard migration is that you can look no farther than the Long Point duck club 23 miles across the lake from Erie...They start baiting the minute the temps reach around 35....They bring corn in by the BARGE LOADS! This holds a ton of malllards from flying south..Not all of em, but a whole bunch of em.

On another note. Myself and a few guys that I hunt with on a regular basis have often talked about a 3-4 bird any species limit.
If anything, it would help with the sky busters I would think.

Lets get the story straight. It's the Long Point Company(millionairs club).
And they start baiting before the season opens at the end of sept not when it gets below 35 and they only hunt for the first six weeks. They are done hunting and baiting by nov 15th ever year. Well before freeze up.
The reason long point holds birds isn't all due cause of baiting its the fact that there is a ton of habitat on that side of the lake unlike erie,pa and its historically a huge staging area for ducks on their southern migration. And the fact that winters have gotten milder so the birds don't have to migrate as far.
And the fact that the hunting pressure is lower up there.
And a 3-4 bird species limit will never get rid of the skybusters. Atleast in this state.
Traveling North America chasing the migration and making memories one shotshell at a time! KDS
001kds
hunter
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:45 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby smkndux » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:14 am

001kds wrote:And a 3-4 bird species limit will never get rid of the skybusters. Atleast in this state.


I would have to agree with ya on that. The skybusters I have wittnessed are just that. Bustin SKY. I never see anything fall. :yes: but they keep on shootin :huh:
sent from my Styrofoam Cup with string attatched.
User avatar
smkndux
hunter
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:50 pm
Location: Conneautville,Pa.

Re: What if the mallard limit gets cut?

Postby BrentwoodDucker » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:47 am

001kds wrote:
BrentwoodDucker wrote:One of the main reasons for the Mallard migration is that you can look no farther than the Long Point duck club 23 miles across the lake from Erie...They start baiting the minute the temps reach around 35....They bring corn in by the BARGE LOADS! This holds a ton of malllards from flying south..Not all of em, but a whole bunch of em.

On another note. Myself and a few guys that I hunt with on a regular basis have often talked about a 3-4 bird any species limit.
If anything, it would help with the sky busters I would think.

Lets get the story straight. It's the Long Point Company(millionairs club).
And they start baiting before the season opens at the end of sept not when it gets below 35 and they only hunt for the first six weeks. They are done hunting and baiting by nov 15th ever year. Well before freeze up.
The reason long point holds birds isn't all due cause of baiting its the fact that there is a ton of habitat on that side of the lake unlike erie,pa and its historically a huge staging area for ducks on their southern migration. And the fact that winters have gotten milder so the birds don't have to migrate as far.
And the fact that the hunting pressure is lower up there.
And a 3-4 bird species limit will never get rid of the skybusters. Atleast in this state.



I've never been there so I was writing what I have heard by people that have so I can't argue the facts you are saying...Either way they are baiting...Baiting will help hold birds no matter what the habitat is.....

And I never mentioned getting rid of the sky busters..I said I think it would help.
BrentwoodDucker
hunter
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:57 am


Return to Pennsylvania Duck Hunting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest