Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

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Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby bugbldr » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:22 am

I took my 12 year old son out on the youth hunt saturday. We didn't bring home any ducks. He hit four but none would fall. He's a decent shot and I could tell he hit at least four birds. He's shooting a 20 gauge youth mosberg, 3" 2 shot Blackclouds, and a modified choke. Do you think changing over to the full choke will help bring some ducks down for him?

Thanks
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby duckslayer74 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:31 am

With steel a mod choke shoots a full pattern, open him up to an IC till he get proficient at shotgun shooting.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby BBQ Fingers » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:54 pm

I think he's fine. I've blown off a lot of feathers from a duck and still have them fly away. And usually that's how the whole day goes where I feel like I'm shooting invisible shot. Other days you drop with every pull of the trigger. If you think about it he's probably just shooting a little bit too far behind 'em. A minor adjustment and he's hitting the head and vitals and they sky will be falling.

I think the gauge, ammo, and choke are all fine. Probably just bad luck ducks.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby Bug Doc » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:01 pm

Switching to a full choke will only help if your son was shooting beyond the effective range of the mod pattern, and based on your description of events I don't think that was the case. If he was putting the birds squarely in the pattern, even a weak pattern would kill at least 50% of birds hit. Four birds crippled leads me to suspect he was simply shooting a little behind and hitting the birds in the tail (alternately, he could have been shooting beyond the effective range of the shot, but steel 2's should be good to around 50 yards or so - even that square Blindside shot should be good to at least 40 yards :wink: ).

How far were most of the shots taken? That will give us a clue. Also, I would take the gun out and fire a couple of test patterns at the distance you most often shoot at ducks. After shooting, draw a 30" circle around the densest part of the pattern and post up a photograph. We can then give you a good idea of where to go next. It may be that he needs an more open choke as duckslayer74 suggested, but the only way to know for sure is to shoot some paper. Good luck!
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby bugbldr » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:34 am

I think we'll go out and shoot some paper this weekend. The farthest shot he took saturday was around 40 yards. He even shot at one landing in our deke's and you could see the pattern all around the duck in the water but it flew off. After your help I'm thinking he is just a bit behind and tailing them.

Thanks
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby Bug Doc » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:57 am

Great. Post up pics of your patterns and we can help analyze them. Go ahead and shoot examples with both chokes. I'd suggest shooting at 40 yards, as that sounds like the max distance he'll be shooting birds (and is probably a good maximum for a 20 ga steel load). You may even want to consider switching to #3 shot, as that will have plenty of poop at 40 yards and will increase the pellet count by about 20%.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby sketch21 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:21 pm

As stated he probably shooting behind. Pattern the gun and try different loads besides b.c. and open up the choke. He will gain more confidence and start to shoot better.

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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby cootlover » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:41 pm

All I shoot is 20 ga 3inch #2 fast steel very deadly at 50 yards out of my pattern master .
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby Bug Doc » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:24 am

cootlover wrote:All I shoot is 20 ga 3inch #2 fast steel very deadly at 50 yards out of my pattern master .


Entirely possible, but to get an effective pattern at 50 yards with that load you have to give up a LOT of pattern width at 20-30 yards. Probably not the best idea for a beginner.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby cootlover » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:11 pm

I agree if your not a good shot don't use a pattern master at close range you will flat out miss .
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby Bret » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:32 am

I am a huge fan of that 3" 7/8 oz 20 gauge load in 4's through an IC choke. I like the numbers that you get with 4 shot on paper(and birds).
I fully admit I am not stretching shots out beyond 30 yards. I love a 20 gauge for a duck gun over the decoys.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby mojo1 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:24 am

For decoying birds a Mod choke and black clouds are just gonna be too tight for new shooters to have a lot of success. Black clouds by design keep a far denser pattern (shot string) than normal steel loads. Go to an IC choke and ditch those black clouds for regular steel loads. It will vastly improve your boys ability to connect.

Good luck
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby Bret » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:20 am

I do not like that wad for that very reason Mojo. I don't like the lead version for pheasants either. It just shoots too tight. Choke makes very little difference with that wad.

The 20 load I was referring to is Kent's.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby mojo1 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:39 pm

Black cloud wads are based on flight control wads which were developed for long range turkey loads. I can vouch for those flight control wads as they throw awesomely tight patterns.

I'm not a huge fan of the black clouds myself, I ruined several birds I wanted to get mounted by shooting them with the BC.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby markanthonyhudson » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:26 am

Black clouds are a very tight pattern shell. Great for small lane shots like in lots of timber. I use Winchester 3" bb - 4's. I have a 96% kill ratio matched to a supernova 26" barrel 12g with factory mod choke.
Stop using the black clouds. Play with different shells. Try Kent's, Winchesters, heavy loads. Find one that works well with his gun. The choke is a great well rounded unit.
Also as stated before. More lead time. I think he may be shooting behind them. It happens to me some times too. This is a never ending learning cure. What may have worked yesterday may not work today, and just because it did not work today does not mean it wont work another day.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby cootlover » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:52 pm

wish I had 96% kill ratio hell that means you shoot 24 duck's pre box of shell's that's good shooting there :thumbsup:
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby duckslayer74 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:56 pm

cootlover wrote:wish I had 96% kill ratio hell that means you shoot 24 duck's pre box of shell's that's good shooting there :thumbsup:


X2. :bow: :bow: :bow:
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby markanthonyhudson » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:56 pm

I have also had good luck with the winshecter blind side. Them are a good shot.

I just got lucky to have found a good setup that works for me.
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Re: Youth 20 Gauge and no ducks falling

Postby duckslayer74 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:08 pm

markanthonyhudson wrote:I have also had good luck with the winshecter blind side. Them are a good shot.

I just got lucky to have found a good setup that works for me.


Blah, blah, blah!!!!! :no: :no: :no:
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