this is STUPID

Plenty of Washington duck hunting information to learn and share from the Pugent sound to the open plains of eastern WA. Discuss all of the Washington duck hunting topics here.

Moderators: Token, brokerbyduck, washingtonmuley, h2ofowlr

Postby Swass14 » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:24 am

i agree that it is a little petty but its the law, and you cant just say he should have let it go...cuz if he does then he has to let the next guy go, then a guy will argue it when he has his gun out or is just pickin up decoys there has to be a line drawn. As per the comment about people without boats crippling ducks i disagree that they shoudl be ticketed because that is NOT against the law...the law is as long as they have waders, and make a reasonable effort to retrieve the game then they are legal.
Swass14
hunter
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: Pasco, WA


Postby mud duck » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:43 am

The officer does not have to ticket everyone. If it were like that, then the example about me J-walking would have resulted in a ticket for me. He has the ability to decide wether or not a ticket is deserved. And in this case, a ticket was deserved in his opinion.

With regard to the cripples, you missed the point. I was saying that you should not shoot at ducks that you don't even have a prayer of knocking down, not to mention retreive them. Doing this only wounds the birds as well as educates them. I know you have a legal right to do that, but is it very responsible?
mud duck
hunter
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:17 pm
Location: Central Washington

Postby Geardown » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:43 am

Can that warden realy prove that a duck was not in the vacinity making the calls? Law or no law there is no proof of the violation and the burdon of proof will fall on him.
Geardown
hunter
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:19 am
Location: Spanaway

Postby decoydog » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:58 am

I have been hunting for over 20 years. Longer than some of you who have been arguing the position of innocents. Don't get me wrong, because I think that this arguement for and against is good for us. I know fish and game officers on a personal level and I can tell you that they have one of the hardest jobs in law enforcement. There is no other job in civilian life where everyone you deal with has a firearm. In the field, the burden of proof as we know it, i.e. video taping or multiple eye whitnesses does not fall on the officer, and alot of that has to due with the fact that where we hunt and fish can be a place of no population. If he whitnesses a violation, he is all the proof the courts of law need. DUCK_HUNTER, as for you, I do not think of you as a liar, but you have failed to tell us everyyhing . If you want to, and I would listen to you intentley. please tell us step by step what went down. That would help out alot since it was you that started this. I can tell you that I have not thought any less of you and have nothing against you, if fact if I saw you, I would probobley give you a great big hunters hug.

MARK
It's hard to pull 1 inch through 6 inches of material while doing "the dance", and looking skyward.
User avatar
decoydog
hunter
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Kennewick, Washington

Postby mud duck » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:11 pm

I would love to hear every detail also. I also would love to see exactly where in the regs it says you can't blow your call after shooting hours. I read them cover to cover this morning and only came across baiting. The definition of baiting is not blowing your call, it is about puting food out. It also does not mention enticing. It is also legal to leave your decoys out up to an hour after legal shooting hour. I'd have to argue that if you can leave your decoys out after shooting hours, you should certainly be able to blow your call.
mud duck
hunter
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:17 pm
Location: Central Washington

Postby decoydog » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:22 pm

A comprehensive book of the federal laws are located at your nearest federal office, and the state book is at the stae office. It is not up to the officer giving you the ticket to educate you of the laws, it is up to you to educate yourself. What is put into your reg's is an simplified overview. As a hunter, you should know that. It's your fault, and nobody elses if you don't. Also MUDDUCK, By reviewing all of your replies, I can tell that you are young and arrogant. Which explains why I am tired of talking to the brick wall. So I will not be responding to your replies anymore on this topic. Only time and experience can make you and wiser and more educated hunter.
It's hard to pull 1 inch through 6 inches of material while doing "the dance", and looking skyward.
User avatar
decoydog
hunter
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Kennewick, Washington

Postby Elmer Fudd » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:37 pm

THERE YOU GO..dont just read the state laws but federal laws also.. CO's are federal officers..they have more power than state..they can come onto private land without permission and arrest you...
Best bet is to get to know them in your hunting area and dont get on there bad side..it'll just be rough for you every time you hunt or fish and not just for you but anybody else with you.
Upside Down & Feet Twitchin...
The HeviShot way
User avatar
Elmer Fudd
hunter
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:32 pm
Location: Indiana

Postby mud duck » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:45 pm

Ok decoydog. I am not young and uneducated. I have also been hunting for more than 25 years. I'm sorry you have resorted to name calling. I would like to keep the discussion civil. I've read the WAC's and still cannot find it where blowing your call after shooting hours is illegal. The closest thing I have found is WAC 232-12-264 (baiting), Statuatory authority, RCW 77.12.040, and WAC 232-12-257 (use of decoys), statuatory authority, RCW 77.15.400. All I'm looking for here is the specific law that I can read. I am not looking for a vague answer about a special federal law book that's available at a federal office.
mud duck
hunter
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:17 pm
Location: Central Washington

Postby Swass14 » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:08 pm

I believe you will have to find a special book, or head to a law library because they are talking federal...and i dont believe you can search fed's database on the net without paying for it.


I dont believe they are saying it is "illegal to blow your call after hours"

but "it is illegal to blow your call after hours, in the vicinity of a hunting area" or something along those lines...

i am sure you could sit in your front lawn and blow it all day until your neighbors got pissed :)
Swass14
hunter
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: Pasco, WA

Postby mud duck » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:24 pm

Time to call your bluff decoydog. Next time you call names, get your facts straight. I spent another hour researching CFR's today after reviewing the WAC's again. I then spoke with a game enforcement officer for fish and game. There is no such law. You can blow your call when ever and wherever you want. If you don't believe me, call (360) 902-2200.
mud duck
hunter
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:17 pm
Location: Central Washington

Postby shotgunr » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:24 pm

Duck hunter,
I know this sucks for ya and I know your not going to like this
but decoydog is correct on this one. Now, the warden does have the right to either warn or give a heads up lesson learned here, but he didn't.
This being said, he doesn't make the laws he enforces them.
All he did here in this situation was do his job. To those of you that
don't know, know this. Not all the rules and regs are in your FREE pamplets you get from walmart, fredmeyers or where ever you get them.
There are RCW Regs and WAC Regs There are laws and rules that alot of people don't even know of or take the time to find out.
Some rules and laws are not real clear and could be considered GRAY AREAS. In your spare time around the house or in you library ( Mine is my bathroom) read some of the laws and rules and if you have question call your game department and ask them. These guys and very helpful and have always taken the time to help me out if something is unclear.

Like I said, I know this sucks and it's a tough way to find something out.
You could look at it like this, at least you came out of the field learning something that you didn't know before you went in. If this happened with a few buddies that were with you you could have all gotton tickets
That to me would have made me feel like crap luckily it didn't happen to you.
Sorry bud
shotgunr
hunter
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:29 pm
Location: Western WA

Postby mud duck » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:50 pm

shotgunr,
like I just said, I read the WAC's (state laws with authority RCW's) and CFR's (Federal Regulations). I also spoke with an enforcement officer at the game department, see previous post with number to call. There is no such law on the books that prohibits you from blowing on your call.
mud duck
hunter
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:17 pm
Location: Central Washington

Postby decoydog » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:53 pm

I am waiting on a call back from the officer that issued the ticket. I will let everyone know what his reasoning for the ticket was.
It's hard to pull 1 inch through 6 inches of material while doing "the dance", and looking skyward.
User avatar
decoydog
hunter
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Kennewick, Washington

Postby Otto » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:13 pm

decoydog wrote:I am waiting on a call back from the officer that issued the ticket. I will let everyone know what his reasoning for the ticket was.


Good job decoydog, I to was thinking about doing the same thing, look forward to hearing the outcome.
Otto
hunter
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:44 pm

Postby Otto » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:16 pm

mud duck wrote: I also spoke with an enforcement officer at the game department, .


Did you get their name? I would also request what he said, to be in a written format.
Otto
hunter
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:44 pm

Postby decoydog » Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:04 pm

My hope is to get a written statement, but at the very leat, I will get the name and telephone number of the officer, so the findings can be validated. Where is Duck_Hunter in all of this? we have yet to get a full report as to what happened. Considering we are going to all this trouble to find an answer.
It's hard to pull 1 inch through 6 inches of material while doing "the dance", and looking skyward.
User avatar
decoydog
hunter
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Kennewick, Washington

Postby decoydog » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:49 pm

Here is the reply to the email that I sent out to the enforcement office: As there are no specifics concerning this issue, I am unable to answer any questions. Specifics would be: Name of person cited and their address, officer's name and/or number, and date. Also type and location of violation. As of today, I have received four calls/emails concerning this issue w/no specifics. Safe hunting, Jeff Skeens WDFW. It appears to me that Duck_Hunter is going to have to step up with some information on this or we are going to have to consider this a dead issue. With that being said, to keep yourself out of trouble with the law, you might want to reconsider blowing your calls after. Hold everything.... I just received a call from enforcement officer John Horn 509-545-2013 who said that he may have been the one to issue the violation to Duck_Hunter.He told me that when he approches a situation, he looks at the totality of the scene. In this case the hunter had a loaded weapon after shooting hours, and blowing his call to entice the birds to his location with a hunting intent. This falls under RCW# 7715400.1 and WAC# 232.12.291 codes. He said that a ticket would have not been issued if he noticed that the hunter looked as if he was making the attempt to pack it in and end his day. But since he did not, the hunter was cited. Hey Mud Duck.......I see your called bluff and raise you the truth!
It's hard to pull 1 inch through 6 inches of material while doing "the dance", and looking skyward.
User avatar
decoydog
hunter
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Kennewick, Washington

Postby shotgunr » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:00 pm

Ah yes, THE TRUTH!
I myself had no reason to call since I knew the whole truth had NOT been told here.
decoydog :salude: to ya!
shotgunr
hunter
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:29 pm
Location: Western WA

Postby fowllust » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:15 pm

Excellent work Decoy, this was some serious drama. Horn is a good officer.
fowllust
hunter
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:58 pm
Location: Pasco, Wa

Postby 98ramtough » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:56 pm

nice work decoydog. :hammering:
Quack
User avatar
98ramtough
hunter
 
Posts: 2027
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:02 am
Location: Kennewick, WA

Postby mud duck » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:44 pm

Good report decoydog. I made an additional call today to the Ephrata office and spoke with the chief enforcement officer. He told me almost verbatim what you wrote. There is no law against blowing your call. If the totality of the situation appears that the person was in the act of hunting, the officer has the discretion to cite him/her. He did however tell me that you can have your decoys out and call them in just to see if you can but you have to clearly be not hunting. He said that you could have all your ammo unloaded and put away along with your gun in the case.

My opinion, and I think it's everyone else's also, just don't make it look like you're hunting. Pack up and move on when legal hour has come and gone.

Good debate everyone. No hard feelings decoydog.
mud duck
hunter
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:17 pm
Location: Central Washington

Postby Otto » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:07 am

as Paul Harvey is famous for saying " and now the rest of the story"

we just heard it!

good job decoydog!
Otto
hunter
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:44 pm

Postby decoydog » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:44 am

Doing the right thing in the field begins with the knowledge from the regulations you pick up in the store, information you get off the computer, or the field officers you encounter in passing. I thank you all for the pat on the back, but you will have to excuse me for being humble. All I did is what I usually do. I make it a point to keep in contact with field officers, and use them as a reference when needed. They are a wealth of information, and almost all of them are good guys (and gals), and most of them hunt and fish, so they know the productive spots. Most of all, we as tax payers, pay their wages and they are more than willing to answer any questions that you might have. I do have to say that I was hunting with a partner last weekend when we encountered 1 state officer and 2 federal officer in a boat. They checked our licences, shot guns, and birds. after that, they answered any question we had and were very polite. These guys I had not met before, but my partner had. I am just glad to have met them on good terms. Anyway have good hunting with good friends , then drink good beer.
It's hard to pull 1 inch through 6 inches of material while doing "the dance", and looking skyward.
User avatar
decoydog
hunter
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Kennewick, Washington

Postby duckblaster » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:11 am

I know it's a dead subject, but shouldn't we give credit where credit is deserved? After looking at all the posts, mud was right from the start. He was the first to post the WAC's and RCW's and personally speak with 2 enforcement officers. He was also the first to get drug through the mud.
duckblaster
Newb
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:24 am
Location: Seattle

Previous

Return to Washington Duck Hunting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: eagles2069, slimjim32 and 10 guests