Jets for western wa rivers?

Plenty of Washington duck hunting information to learn and share from the Pugent sound to the open plains of eastern WA. Discuss all of the Washington duck hunting topics here.

Moderators: Token, washingtonmuley, h2ofowlr, brokerbyduck

Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby Jbuck » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:38 pm

After learning a lot and meeting a few people out hunting this year. I am starting to plan/dream about next year.

I hunted spencer island and the skagit river so far and hope to find some more areas and do a little scouting this summer.

While out this year I seen only a couple of boats that had jets on them. Why is that? They would seem to be nice for the shallow sand bars or submerged obsticals. As well as shallow water on the tidal flats.

I am looking at trading in my current boat for a 14-16' Jon or mod-V skiff for next year.
User avatar
Jbuck
hunter
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:44 pm
Location: Pacific NW


Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:48 pm

Jet pumps have ups and downs with very specific applications.

If you plan to run rivers during the summer or other low water periods then a pump is what you will need. My 18 foot sled with a 90 hp pump runs in 3 inches of water when on a plane. I run a lot of different rivers during summer low conditions and the pump works great. For me a prop simply is not a viable option.

Downsides are very poor boat control at slow speeds, horrible backing control, and heavy waves can cause pump wash out when the shoe lifts out of the water or gets to shallow. Weedy conditions will jam a pump up right quick with you needing to stop and clear it periodically. I have run pumps for decades on an a medium or smaller boat they make a lot of sense if you have an application or specific river bodies where you need them.

Prop engines excel at boat control, work in somewhat weedy environments and running in those areas, has better hole shot, and will cost less than a pump engine in general. They also have far better backing and forward thrust control at low speeds. Downside is simply expensive repairs when you hit rocks or hard object a boat with pump would have blasted right over without even knowing they were there.
Bella's
Decoy Setting Pro Staff
Boat Operator Pro Staff
Duck Shooting Pro Staff
Warm Towel Pro Staff
Snack Supply Pro Staff

He works for free! Who's the B now?
User avatar
ScaupHunter
hunter
 
Posts: 6662
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:57 am

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:43 pm

I am a scratching my head with the same question just eastern WA. Seems like great plan, but I see little to no pumps on any boats. But I don't see many/any duck rig Jon's over here.

Any pics of your rig?
Jesse Jaymes
hunter
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:37 pm
Location: NE WA

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby h2ofowlr » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:17 pm

I had a jet on my boat a 60/40 2 stroke. I didn't hunt the river to much, mainly the bay. The wind would pick up and the cavitation was terrible along with the eel grass, I constantly was clearing the intake. I also would burn through a crap load of fuel. It was nothing to burn 8-10 gallons. I pulled the jet and bought a new 40hp 4-stroke. Way happier with that set up. If your running gravel bars, jet all the way. Sandy bottoms or lots of weeds go prop. Ideal is a hydraulic jack plate with a low water intake on your motor. Works great then.
Cut Um!
Real ducks don't have a competition sequence they follow! Hint, hint!
User avatar
h2ofowlr
State Moderator
 
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:25 pm
Location: In the traffic zone!

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby Jbuck » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:40 pm

Thanks for the input. I have a prop now, but I planned on selling my boat and lookin for a Jon or mod-v and maybe switching to a jet. I have a smaller skiff that get crowded fast. But is perfect for towing to the lake to fish with my 10yo to fish trout.

So seeing that this will be a primary used as a lake fishing boat, which has a afternoon wind and a accompanying 3-6" chop, a prop may be better?

Now I gotta sell it to the wife.
User avatar
Jbuck
hunter
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:44 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby h2ofowlr » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:57 pm

No reason for a jet on a lake unless the entire thing is shallower than a foot. Prop will be way easier on the pocket book fuel wise. Better for trolling as well. My boat is an 18' 60" bottom. Works good unless the waves get really big.
Cut Um!
Real ducks don't have a competition sequence they follow! Hint, hint!
User avatar
h2ofowlr
State Moderator
 
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:25 pm
Location: In the traffic zone!

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby Jbuck » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:28 pm

No there is no reason for a jet on the lake I fish. Fishing cosists of achoring and casting bobbers.

I just figured that if I was going to be shopping for another boat if I should be looking for a jet to go with it.
I wouldn't worry about fuel economy as I won't use it enough to notice the difference. But as far as the grasses go and cavitating in the chop concern me.
User avatar
Jbuck
hunter
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:44 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby bknilvr00 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:45 am

Jbuck wrote:No there is no reason for a jet on the lake I fish. Fishing cosists of achoring and casting bobbers.

I just figured that if I was going to be shopping for another boat if I should be looking for a jet to go with it.
I wouldn't worry about fuel economy as I won't use it enough to notice the difference. But as far as the grasses go and cavitating in the chop concern me.

If you won't use it enough to notice fuel costs, just go with a prop. I'm switching to a jet this summer myself. Once the salmon start running, I'm on the water nearly every day. I found alot of logs, gravel bars, and hit a submerged pallet with the lower unit doing about 30 down the river.... I'm tired of catching the skeg on stuff. Id rather slide right on over stuff.

Sent from my space modulator.
User avatar
bknilvr00
hunter
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:38 pm
Location: Lake Stevens

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby Jbuck » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:36 am

bknilvr00 wrote:
Jbuck wrote:No there is no reason for a jet on the lake I fish. Fishing cosists of achoring and casting bobbers.

I just figured that if I was going to be shopping for another boat if I should be looking for a jet to go with it.
I wouldn't worry about fuel economy as I won't use it enough to notice the difference. But as far as the grasses go and cavitating in the chop concern me.

If you won't use it enough to notice fuel costs, just go with a prop. I'm switching to a jet this summer myself. Once the salmon start running, I'm on the water nearly every day. I found alot of logs, gravel bars, and hit a submerged pallet with the lower unit doing about 30 down the river.... I'm tired of catching the skeg on stuff. Id rather slide right on over stuff.

Sent from my space modulator.



Yeah. I have another boat that I use for salmon and halibut in the straights and ocean, which gets used every weekend during the season. This would be used probably 5-6 weekends fishing and probably twice that duck hunting. So maybe 50-70hrs a year.
User avatar
Jbuck
hunter
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:44 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:10 am

You don't need a pump based on what you are saying.

Another major issue with a pump can be wind wash out on the hull. Say you are running slow due to high waves and have a really light hull boat. The wind will catch that front end and flip you sideways due to low speed and low thrust / control at the pump. I have seen it happen to guys more than one. I picked up a pair of guys and towed their jon boat to the ramp upside down in one of the incidents. A prop has enough bite to give you solid control and keep the boat bow into the waves in high winds.

I have a custom welded 18 foot sled that is a tank. I designed and had it built heavy on purpose. She is a gas sucking hog. I have run the sled down at the mouth of the Columbia in moderate conditions and been out on big lakes in 5 to 7 foot waves and done just fine. The main thing being hull weight which keeps the rear down which avoids cavitation, and running at a speed that maintained pump connection in the water. You don't want to the be the guy sitting up front on a ride that like!

If you can get away with a 20 hp prop, you need at least a 40 hp pump to get about 30 hp at the pump outlet. Pumps do not fare well with overloaded boats or even very heavy boats or loads. They are a specialized tool that makes sense when you use them a lot for specific areas and places.
Bella's
Decoy Setting Pro Staff
Boat Operator Pro Staff
Duck Shooting Pro Staff
Warm Towel Pro Staff
Snack Supply Pro Staff

He works for free! Who's the B now?
User avatar
ScaupHunter
hunter
 
Posts: 6662
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:57 am

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby somethinsmellsfishy » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:47 am

h2ofowlr wrote:I had a jet on my boat a 60/40 2 stroke. I didn't hunt the river to much, mainly the bay. The wind would pick up and the cavitation was terrible along with the eel grass, I constantly was clearing the intake. I also would burn through a crap load of fuel. It was nothing to burn 8-10 gallons. I pulled the jet and bought a new 40hp 4-stroke. Way happier with that set up. If your running gravel bars, jet all the way. Sandy bottoms or lots of weeds go prop. Ideal is a hydraulic jack plate with a low water intake on your motor. Works great then.


If I am reading this correct you went from a 2 stroke jet to a 4 stroke prop? I am asking because I have a 2 stroke jet that I am looking to replace with a 4 stroke jet because my boat is a 16 ft mod V Lowe that I run the rivers with. Can you tell me how the change has effected your gas bill? Did you notice any difference in the weight of each motor and would you say that the fuel injection made the 4 stroke more reliable?
If there are any other questions that I have not asked that you feel would be important to mention then that would be appreciated also.
Thanks for your time,

Fishy
somethinsmellsfishy
hunter
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:03 am

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby ScaupHunter » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:24 am

I am sure H20 will weigh in shortly with personal experience.

4 strokes are always heavier than 2 stroke engines of the same HP. That is just that nature of the beast. You can look up the weights of the different motors on the company websites. it will be listed in the engine specifications. A Google search also often produces the answer. My 90 hp 4 stroke was 64 lbs lighter than the lightest 4 stroke in 2004. The last time I looked at changing it out that number had become about 70 lbs in 2011.

If you are going to the bottom end of HP on your pump to save cash, you need to know that a 4 stroke has lower bottom end torque in the power band. This means less hole shot and a slower climb to a plane. This really matters in a fully loaded boat. If you push the load limits the boat will either be hard to bring on a plane, or will not plane at all while easily jumping up on a plane with one person and a load. My recommendation has always been to add at least 10 hp if you want to go from a 2 to a 4 stroke and preferably 20.

Sorry for jacking the post. I have spent a lot of years running sleds and spend a significant amount of time keeping up on engines. Most particularly now that I am shopping around for a new 120 hp pump.
Bella's
Decoy Setting Pro Staff
Boat Operator Pro Staff
Duck Shooting Pro Staff
Warm Towel Pro Staff
Snack Supply Pro Staff

He works for free! Who's the B now?
User avatar
ScaupHunter
hunter
 
Posts: 6662
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:57 am

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby h2ofowlr » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:59 am

somethinsmellsfishy wrote:
h2ofowlr wrote:I had a jet on my boat a 60/40 2 stroke. I didn't hunt the river to much, mainly the bay. The wind would pick up and the cavitation was terrible along with the eel grass, I constantly was clearing the intake. I also would burn through a crap load of fuel. It was nothing to burn 8-10 gallons. I pulled the jet and bought a new 40hp 4-stroke. Way happier with that set up. If your running gravel bars, jet all the way. Sandy bottoms or lots of weeds go prop. Ideal is a hydraulic jack plate with a low water intake on your motor. Works great then.


If I am reading this correct you went from a 2 stroke jet to a 4 stroke prop? I am asking because I have a 2 stroke jet that I am looking to replace with a 4 stroke jet because my boat is a 16 ft mod V Lowe that I run the rivers with. Can you tell me how the change has effected your gas bill? Did you notice any difference in the weight of each motor and would you say that the fuel injection made the 4 stroke more reliable?
If there are any other questions that I have not asked that you feel would be important to mention then that would be appreciated also.
Thanks for your time,

Fishy


I went from burning 8-10 gallons of fuel per outing or more to about 2-2-1/2 gallons running the same line. As mentioned the 4 strokes add weight, but a lot more fuel efficient. Many still like the 2-strokes for jets for hole shots, but you pay in the pocket book. The one exception was the Evinrude E-tec that my buddy has on his sled. It has plenty of power and a 2-stoke and very fuel efficient. That would be an option to consider. At one time I looked at the weight ratios and did all the comparisons and it came in lighter, more fuel efficient, but more expensive. If you go jet with a 4-stroke, max the HP out for the boat.
Cut Um!
Real ducks don't have a competition sequence they follow! Hint, hint!
User avatar
h2ofowlr
State Moderator
 
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:25 pm
Location: In the traffic zone!

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby B_Squared » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:46 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:I am sure H20 will weigh in shortly with personal experience.

4 strokes are always heavier than 2 stroke engines of the same HP. That is just that nature of the beast.


Yup, I never understood why my 70 old Dad bought a 2-stoke 15hp when there was 4-strokes available until I figured that out Since he loaded his boat onto his truck and had to man handle the motor onto the boat every time he used it. He paid attention to the weight difference. A 15 hp 4-stroke would of weighed too much for him. I didn't come to that conclusion until after he passed away and I inherited the boat. He still is teaching me lessons and he has been gone over 6 years!
B_Squared
hunter
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Washington

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby somethinsmellsfishy » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:54 pm

B_Squared wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:I am sure H20 will weigh in shortly with personal experience.

4 strokes are always heavier than 2 stroke engines of the same HP. That is just that nature of the beast.


Yup, I never understood why my 70 old Dad bought a 2-stoke 15hp when there was 4-strokes available until I figured that out Since he loaded his boat onto his truck and had to man handle the motor onto the boat every time he used it. He paid attention to the weight difference. A 15 hp 4-stroke would of weighed too much for him. I didn't come to that conclusion until after he passed away and I inherited the boat. He still is teaching me lessons and he has been gone over 6 years!


I understand the weight issue and looked into it and the 4 stroke Yami that I am probably going to buy is 30 lbs heavier than the two stroke that is on there now, having said that my gas tank is up front and my battery is in the middle seat so I have moved a lot of weight out of the back end. I do have a kicker that weighs about 55-60 lbs that I don't think I'll need with this newer motor so that will come off and I can still carry my electric motor for getting dekes and the like.

Fishy
somethinsmellsfishy
hunter
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:03 am

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby snowsinspring » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:29 pm

it seems this thread has gone 2 V 4 stroke?
2 strokes will run forever if you get rid of either the oil injection or VRO pump and mix gas. 4 stokes are heavy and need to be timed on a regular basis.
You want the real "true" info on boats and motors go to iboatsdotcom
Last edited by snowsinspring on Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
snowsinspring
hunter
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:14 pm

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby springsnowgooze1 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:15 pm

snowsinspring wrote:it seems this thread has gone 2 V 4 stroke?
2 strokes will run forever if you get rid of either the oil injection or VRO pump and mix gas. 4 stokes are heavy and need to be timed on a regular basis.

2 stroke light, more power vs same displacement. Way easier to work on, way cheaper to fix, Less parts to sh*t the bed.
4 stroke heavy, cost a fortune to fix or rebuild, less performance vs same displament 2 stroke.
2 stroke>4 stroke
springsnowgooze1
hunter
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:58 pm

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby mallardstalker » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:00 pm

Well it sure didn't take skagit long to make up some new names. How long will these two last?
mallardstalker
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby somethinsmellsfishy » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:30 pm

mallardstalker wrote:Well it sure didn't take skagit long to make up some new names. How long will these two last?


Hopefully not long, so that we can get back to having an adult conversation.


Fishy
somethinsmellsfishy
hunter
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:03 am

Re: Jets for western wa rivers?

Postby Tealer » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:35 am

I like pumps, but they have their issues. Also a 4 stroke will burn less fuel. Running a 25' sled with a 225 Yami burns less then 12 gallons all day on the springer troll. I haven't really seen the MPG gap others have. The sled has a prop on it now in hopes of saving fuel, I will get back to you on that.
Widmer Bros Prostaff
Former Hostess Prostaff
WizzBang Prostaff
Tealer
village idiot
 
Posts: 6027
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:41 am
Location: Along the Columbia


Return to Washington Duck Hunting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: vandeman17 and 11 guests