A waterfowl biologist question to all.

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A waterfowl biologist question to all.

Postby Poke Boater » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:21 am

The inquirey is to all members and to those members schooled in waterfowl biology at our colleges and universities.

At the end of January I dressed a mallard drake with short white worms imbedded in the breast. The length of each was three eighths of an inch. Around ten or so in number were on each side and very visible just under the outer muscle. They all were pointed toward the keel bone. I cut one out and it did not move. Fish grubs will unfold and move when cut out.

Has anyone seen parasitic worms like this in ducks? Away from the gastro intestinal tract.

PB :help:
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
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Postby Smackaduck » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:33 am

Yes seen it several times. Not so much this year. Propably only five or six out of a hundred. From what I understand it is some sort of parasite. Some people say you can still cook and eat the bird but mine do not make the cut. Try and do a search. There was a thougrough discussion earlier this year.
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Got that on the search.........

Postby Poke Boater » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:36 pm

:thumbsup: OK smackaduck and someone years ago had to be the brave type to try one! I will do a search ASAP and I think this category will be a start. The number of quackers I bag in a year could be counted on both hand's fingers.

A quick reply from Lousiana was well appreciated friend. The outdoor critters of the night got the drake. :toss: :wink:


PB from up North a piece


http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/viewtopi ... ight=worms

EDIT after the search.....I never thought about looking there and the photo linked was a bad case of this strange parasitic term!!
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
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Postby Smackaduck » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:14 pm

That was the exact post I was thinking about. The ones I see are normally that full of them.
If they're dumb enough to be lured in by plastic you're really just doing them a favor.

Know your target before you pull the trigger.

Duck Hunting is ALL about the bag.
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Postby fowlaholic » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:04 pm

ate mine and im ok i think lol
gettin out is all the fun if you bag a bird thats a bonus
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Thanks for the posts here.........

Postby Poke Boater » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:37 am

:lol: is right fowlaholic. smackaduck a quic search found the right spot in the cooking inquirey. The parasite worms with the name I can't pronounce. Are shown thin and too many to count. The Kentucky drake mallard had large fat ones few in number. Maybe the white worms needed more flight time to multiply.

North American yellow perch and bluegill get "grubby" and it all fries up and adds a bit of sterilized protien to the fish.

The DU magazine may have done a story on waterfowl parasites. If you two or any member here has seen one let us know. My magazines go way back, and I bet you all keep yours too. :wink:

PB :thumbsup:
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
Ouabache!
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Postby yellodog1 » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:19 am

After looking at the link, I dont think I would eat a duck with them.
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Yes on that line!

Postby Poke Boater » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:28 am

yellodog1 wrote:After looking at the link, I dont think I would eat a duck with them.


If it's a bit of expensive protien for the table. There is hopefuly another duck in the freezer with a bit less protien. :wink:

PB :thumbsup:
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
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Postby biodukmc » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:10 am

The condition you are describing is called Sarcocystis or "rice breast". Sarcocystis is a nonfatal, usually asymptomatic infection that is caused by a parasitic protozoan. Various Species of this parasite affect mammals, reptiles and birds. The most common reported species in North America is Sarcocystis rileyi, the species most commonly found in waterfowl. Current knowledge of the disease does not indicate a need to initiate control because there is little evidence that bird health is compromised by this parasitic infection.

Sarcocystis sp. presents no known health hazard to humans. The primary importance to humans of Sarcocystis in waterfowl is the loss of infected birds for food; the unaesthetic appearance of parasitized muscle may prompt hunters to discard the carcass. Many hunters who pluck birds never observe the parasite as cooking generally makes the parasite less noticeable as in raw muscle tissue.
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Thanks for your contribution here!

Postby Poke Boater » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:08 am

biodukmc,

The twenty plus I found in the big, fat Mallard drake had no bearing on his health. The parasites were as long as ____ that line and this wide $. They seemed rather fat too.

Plucking waterfowl leaving the skin covering the muscle. One would want to examine underneath the skin for avoiding "rice breast". But only if you wanted to avoid this extra protozoan protien harmful to no one including their host.

Is this odd natured parasite found in shore birds, herons, cranes, geese, or swans? Does it include all species of ducks around the world? All waterfowl as you say, I take it.

Interesting to read your explanation so well appreciated by us all.

PB :smile:
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
Ouabache!
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Postby sigep538 » Thu May 10, 2007 10:31 pm

from what Ive learned in class rice breast is not fatal, but there havent been many studies I believe It is an organism that requires two diffrent hosts kinda like Malaria to complete the life cycle. (sorry I was kinda tired durring that lecture..) It was not advised to eat them and personaly I would burn the body and not eat the meat.
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Postby Poke Boater » Fri May 11, 2007 3:52 am

:thumbsup: I discretely gave this mallard to the critters at the base of a big tree on our old farm place. Rice breast has had all this time to spread, to all species of waterfowl. Yet it is not common, thank goodness. :wink:

Thanks for the reply and where are you furthering your outdoor related education? We have a son at IU in Bloomington, Indiana.

PB :smile:
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
Ouabache!
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Postby sigep538 » Fri May 11, 2007 12:56 pm

Fisheries and Wildlife managment @ Arkansas Tech University. I should be graduating this fall, so hopefully I can find a job pretty soon... No problem at all I love to help folks out when I can!
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Postby Greenhead329 » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:00 pm

I killed a wigeon with a yellow parasite inbedded in the breast and scrapped the meat.
Guys DO NOT eat MEAT with parasites in it. We just covered this in parasitology class. Parasites that nest in muscle tissues have the potential to infect humans.
Unless the meat is cooked thouroughly and killed they have the ability to induce a condition called larval migrans..resulting in us becoming unwilling hosts.
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Postby Poke Boater » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:49 pm

Greenhead329 wrote:I killed a wigeon with a yellow parasite inbedded in the breast and scrapped the meat.
Guys DO NOT eat MEAT with parasites in it. We just covered this in parasitology class. Parasites that nest in muscle tissues have the potential to infect humans.
Unless the meat is cooked thouroughly and killed they have the ability to induce a condition called larval migrans..resulting in us becoming unwilling hosts.


Greenhead329,

That is very good advice from a schooled waterfowler. If one paid for professional picking or if one picks the feathers manualy. A view under the skin is not possible. Unless it's pulled off the breast meat and toothpicked back on for the oven. :lol:

I've made the chase of the webbed footed fowl 41 years. I've found rice breast just once. As subtle as these parasites are. You'd have to be skinned to tell if you have them! Not for me, these hitch hikers called larval migrans feasting on us hosts with our sweet flavors!

I doubt a $2,000 +$ MRI check would pick them up on the screen. :tongue:

Thanks for the insight today! :thumbsup:

PB :smile:
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
Ouabache!
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Re: A future wildlife biologist is in the making,.....good l

Postby Tom Phillips* » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:26 am

Poke Boater wrote::thumbsup: I discretely gave this mallard to the critters at the base of a big tree on our old farm place.


You should have cooked and eaten it. What you did was to help it spread.

Waterfowl and other animals become infected with sarcocystis by ingesting the eggs of the parasite in food or water. The parasite requires a primary host (carnivore) and a secondary host (waterfowl and other herbivorous animals) to complete it's life cycle.

In the primary host's intestine, the parasite matures and produces microscopic eggs. The eggs pass out in the carnivore's feces, contaminating the environment. Waterfowl ingest the eggs while feeding. When the eggs hatch, the parasites move through body tissues to the skeletal muscles where they form cysts. The cycle is completed when a carnivore consumes prey infected with sarcocystis.
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To The Savage Nation HQ, a reply back.......

Postby Poke Boater » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:47 pm

Nah! If Crocodile Dundee won't eat one, I won't either! If this passenger parasite's eggs, muscle in on another duck on another day, and that duck never hears a shotgun blast and dies of old age quietly in the dark cattails. That duck, like thousands? so infected, is helping to spread this to the scavenger, on a bigger scale than my one donated to the coyotes or raccoons.

If stomach acids in canines can disolve sharp bone shards, the white grub's eggs haven't got a chance. Wasteful fowlers are known to ditch ducks after a hunt, and the mink & raccoon trapper gains from the free bait. :thumbsdown:

I say it's rare anyway and in little danger of being a danger even to it's host. From the great posts here, that's what I get from the membership. I bet a thousand to one I never shoot another one with the white grubs. So the shovel in the corner will rust a bit more. If I decide to bury the next one with those extreme odds of getting 'picked' my me. I'll skin 'em all now.

Thanks to all who've posted one up here! We learn together by questioning things.

PB :thumbsup:
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
Ouabache!
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Postby jeff_osu » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:52 pm

Sarcocystis rileyi, I think ducks are the secondary host and skunks are the primary. Since those are muscle cysts, I would steer clear of eating those. From what my TA said, they don't know too much about these yet.
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Re: To The Savage Nation HQ, a reply back.......

Postby Tom Phillips* » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:35 pm

Poke Boater wrote:If stomach acids in canines can disolve sharp bone shards, the white grub's eggs haven't got a chance.


You don't seem to have understood the italicized information I posted. You spread the infection by giving the infected meat to a predator. The parasite WILL live in whatever ate your duck. They will produce eggs that will be eaten by other ducks which will then be parasitized.

If you don't understand or believe me, do a search for "rice breast", and then read about the life cycle of the organism.

We know quite a lot about it. You have the opportunity to educate yourself.

Good luck.

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What a Canadian would say..........eh?

Postby Poke Boater » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:52 pm

I did not say there was no beliefs. I have read it from other members here also. That was just my opinion on the acids vs bone. With a note about what I thought the parasite's chances were to survive and multiply in thousands and thousands of predators, like skunks etc.

To date we have seen no warnings about this, and I doubt there ever will be.

There's no shortage of crippled ducks lost for a predator/scavenger's gain.
#1 If a falling duck's head is "held up" shoot again.
#2 If a downed duck lays still on the water with it's head "held down" straight out and you detect ANY movement across the current or not with the wind shoot again.
Ouabache!
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Re: What a Canadian would say..........eh?

Postby Tom Phillips* » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:10 am

Poke Boater wrote:That was just my opinion on the acids vs bone. With a note about what I thought the parasite's chances were to survive and multiply in thousands and thousands of predators, like skunks etc.

To date we have seen no warnings about this, and I doubt there ever will be.


As I wrote before, you don't seem to understand that the parasite will definitely live in the predator that just ate the parasitized duck you fed it. There is no question about it. Your "opinion" is not based on scientific evidence (of which there is plenty).

We don't have warnings about this because we don't NEED them. Cook your ducks and eat them. Cooking KILLS the parasites.

Feeding live parasites to predators SPREADS those parasites.
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Postby Poke Boater » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:03 am

You are missing this point so I'll repeat.......

There's no shortage of crippled ducks lost for a predator/scavenger's gain.

I say it's unlikely that I'll ever see another fat mallard drake with that parasite.

Keeping the peace on this topic will happen. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. :smile:
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Re: Your opinion; my opinion is part of freedom, thank a vet

Postby Tom Phillips* » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:40 am

Poke Boater wrote:You are missing this point so I'll repeat.......

There's no shortage of crippled ducks lost for a predator/scavenger's gain.

However rare they may be (and they are not rare), you passed the infestation on to the predators that ate the duck. If you had cooked and eaten it, you would have suffered no ill effects, and you wouldn't have passed along the parasitic infection.

I say it's unlikely that I'll ever see another fat mallard drake with that parasite.


Poke Boater wrote: The number of quackers I bag in a year could be counted on both hand's fingers.


Since you shoot so few ducks, you may be right in thinking that you'll never see another. It is not uncommon though. For guys who shoot a lot of ducks and skin them, they will see it.
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The thread did well at the first part.......thanks!

Postby Poke Boater » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:16 pm

This topic has become repetative and worn out lately. To the Administrator or Moderator; please delete PDQ.
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Postby skybuster512 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:37 pm

in the past couple of years i have seen alot of birds with this parisite dont rele know y but should i eat them or not. today i shot a black duck with this disease should i eat it or not.
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